Where are the dungeons?

[yoyolll]

Oathbinder's Sanctum is about 4 floors deep, there's that. But it doesn't take very long. 

Which one is Oathbinder's Sanctum?  I might have missed it.

[kelticfury]

There are no big dungeons sadly. I have no idea why.

 

One of my favorite moments in PoE1 was when it was about time to go to bed, then i decided I'd check out this little ( I assumed ) dungeon under my new stronghold. The sun was coming up and I still hadn't completed it. It is almost heartbreaking that there isn't anything of that quality in PoE2.

[Meepichi]

Josh stated that the first game was built directly upon nostalgia which is why so many elements of it are right out of the Infinity Engine games. Pillars 2 is not that. This feels, at least to me, like one of those "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" sort of deals. If Obsidian had simply retread ground again we'd all be complaining that it was just Pillars Redux/Remix. With this scenario Obsidian can do an entirely new environment.

 

And as mentioned above islands don't really mesh with the whole "Evil Dungeon Lair" all too well.

I personally would've liked POE2 to be more like the old classics BG1, BG2, etc.  Why fix what's not broke?  Those are the kind of games that made me want to buy POE1 in the 1st place.  So far POE2 feels like a watered down version of POE1.  Fighting has been for the most part very easy where I can often let the AI do most of the work(i'm sure they'll get that worked out eventually), "dungeons" are tiny and boring, most quests are not very interesting, ship fighting gets old quick, and there's not much to the island exploring.  There still is a lot to enjoy but I feel this game is a big step down from POE1 for me.  I hope the DLC can add a lot more life to the game.  These are by far my favorite type of games, I spent over 550 hrs with POE1 and hoped to spend at least that much with this game, so I may be more critical than most...

[Teacher]

Which one is Oathbinder's Sanctum?  I might have missed it.

 

It's the first island southwest of Neketaka. I think Oswald quest was there.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Teacher

[Townsendvol]

So far I haven't missed the big dungeon experience since there was enough of that in Pillars 1 for me and I don't agree the setting doesn't lend itself well to dungeons.  However like others have stated, there could be towers, caverns (Certainly old volcanic ones) Maybe like old lava tubes.   I haven't run across this ship yall are taking about but guess that could be another opportunity. 

 

For anyone that really enjoys dungeons, sorry you are not getting what you wanted here.  I am ok with it so far.

[Achilles]

Pitch:

 

PoE III: Dungeons for Eternity - procedurally generated infinite dungeon crawler. End game boss fight is vs Josh Sawyer. Evil ending is to bind his soul to the Engwithan machine that makes nothing but more dungeons. Good ending is you put him out of his dungeon-making misery.

[Excalibur_2102]

I still haven't played but the amount I'm reading about short main story and lack of dungeons make me wonder how much content is actually in this game.  Seems a bit contradictory to the devs saying it was much bigger than the first before release..

[ThacoBell]

I still haven't played but the amount I'm reading about short main story and lack of dungeons make me wonder how much content is actually in this game.  Seems a bit contradictory to the devs saying it was much bigger than the first before release..

I've been playing for 12 hours and still haven't cleared Neketakta. There is a lot of game here.

[Achilles]

I still haven't played but the amount I'm reading about short main story and lack of dungeons make me wonder how much content is actually in this game. Seems a bit contradictory to the devs saying it was much bigger than the first before release..

”Content” comes in more flavors than just “dungeons” and “main quest”. There are a crap ton of bounties (land and sea), exploration themed quests, and 4 huge factions that give you a lot of optional quests before you have to settle in with one (or go rogue).

[Morrydwen]

I haven't touched the game myself since I am waiting for the first patch to hit GOG. So it seems the dungeons itself are very small. But are the dungeon areas a bit varied?

[yoyolll]

 

I still haven't played but the amount I'm reading about short main story and lack of dungeons make me wonder how much content is actually in this game.  Seems a bit contradictory to the devs saying it was much bigger than the first before release..

I've been playing for 12 hours and still haven't cleared Neketakta. There is a lot of game here.

 

I don't know.... Pillars 1 took me around 80 hours to beat plus 20-30 hours for White March.  I beat Pillars 2 in 48 hours.  For the record, I always do all the side quests, get all companions, visit all locations, etc.  Leave no stone unturned, basically.  And I play pretty leisurely.  I take my time with quests and I read all the dialogue, item descriptions, and books like a big nerd.  I know many people have beaten the game in 20-30 hours, but I don't get the point of blasting through an RPG like that.

 

Anyway, ~50 hours is pretty short for a cRPG.  Even KotOR which was fully 3D took me around 60-70 hours IIRC.  That being said, those 80 hours in Pillars 1 included a ton of combat in meaningless encounters.  I quite enjoyed that, but I know that it's not considered "high quality" content by a lot of RPGers.

 

At first, Deadfire is dauntingly large.  But then you realize the vast majority is dialogue.  The islands are mostly barren and there are fewer locations than in Pillars 1.  I did enjoy the game quite a bit, but I'm still disappointed in the length and lack of content.  Just like Tyranny, it kind of feels like the whole game is setting up for a climax that never occurs.  Right when things start to get interesting, it ends.  I hope the DLCs will add a large amount of both story and combat to the game.

 

Once I discovered how short the faction quests are and how little combat there is, my hopes of doing several playthroughs kind of died.  Without spoiling anything, there is a lot more overlap in the various faction questlines than you would think.  The main point of difference turns out to be just before the end.  So I made a save and explored the final quest of all 4 factions.  There is very little you don't see during one playthrough.

[Achilles]

I beat Pillars 2 in 48 hours. For the record, I always do all the side quests, get all companions, visit all locations, etc. Leave no stone unturned, basically. And I play pretty leisurely. I take my time with quests and I read all the dialogue, item descriptions, and books like a big nerd.

I don’t know how that’s possible. It took me 110 hours to complete the game on veteran and I know there was VTC and Principi content that I didn’t touch.

[PangaeaACDC]

I'm 70 hours in and am far from finished. No idea how it would be possible to finish the game in ~50 hours by completing everything and playing 'relaxed'.

 

I do kind of miss bigger dungeons though. Not necessarily the behemoth that was in POE1, but more multi-level dungeons would be welcome.

[Tigranes]

Hours played vary massively across games and across players, and it has never really been a reliable metric for anything.

 

Jade Empire took me 8 hours, and I know this because I was stuck in the middle of nowhere, fired it up after a late breakfast, and wrapped it up for dinner. I know it took plenty of people 30+ hours. Now add to that games with a lot of open-ended exploration, nonlinearity, people who listen to every voice line, people who pause every milisecond in combat...

[yoyolll]

 

I beat Pillars 2 in 48 hours. For the record, I always do all the side quests, get all companions, visit all locations, etc. Leave no stone unturned, basically. And I play pretty leisurely. I take my time with quests and I read all the dialogue, item descriptions, and books like a big nerd.

I don’t know how that’s possible. It took me 110 hours to complete the game on veteran and I know there was VTC and Principi content that I didn’t touch.

 

Wow really?  I played on Veteran as well and I'm just not sure how to stretch that out into 110 hours.  I play very leisurely.

 

I got all achievements except RDC ending, max soulbound level, recruit all sidekicks (accidentally killed Mirke, whoops), and survive a mutiny:

http://i.imgur.com/1guOAOZ.png

 

The faction questlines are deceptive.  I'll explain without spoiling any story:

Pretty much all the faction quests deal with the same plot points.  Each faction will ask you to handle a situation slightly differently.  You can usually appease 3 out of 4 factions in each quest if you're thorough, e.g. by talking to everyone and looking for solutions that don't involve killing named characters (although I did end up killing a lot of named characters, but the faction leaders are very reluctant to cut you off from future quests).

With VTC and RDC, you have to choose one or the other on the 2nd to last quest.  And then you choose between Principi, Huana, and either VTC or RDC on the final quest.

 

So, in the end, you barely miss out on anything in one playthrough unless you did something like go on a killing spree in one of the factions' headquarters.  I was planning on doing at least one more playthrough before realizing this.

 

I'll play again once all 3 DLCs come out.  For now, the lack of dungeons and the low number of quests are really discouraging me from a second run.

[daven]

How much does play time matter? I wouldn't want every game to be 50+ hours... there isn't enough time!

 

For a linear RPG, maybe 20-30 hours?

 

I was playing Breath of Fire 3 on PSP recently, took about 28 hours-ish, to do basically everything in the game. That was enough.

 

Also playing FF Tactics, i've been on it on and of for nearly 2 years now and still haven't completed the damn thing.

[yoyolll]

How much does play time matter? I wouldn't want every game to be 50+ hours... there isn't enough time!

 

For a linear RPG, maybe 20-30 hours?

 

I was playing Breath of Fire 3 on PSP recently, took about 28 hours-ish, to do basically everything in the game. That was enough.

 

Also playing FF Tactics, i've been on it on and of for nearly 2 years now and still haven't completed the damn thing.

That's a good point.  If you compare to 99% of games, 50 hours is fantastic.  But we have to compare Deadfire to other cRPGs, and those tend to be very long.  For 2D cRPGs, I've played Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Icewind Dale 1 and 2, Fallout 1 and 2, Planescape: Torment, Pillars of Eternity, and Tyranny.  I would say the average across these games is probably somewhere around 80 - 100 hours for me.  So 50 hours compared to other 2D cRPGs is pretty short.

[yoyolll]

But to be clear, the playtime really isn't a big deal for me.  Good dungeons and quests is much more important.  Deadfire has pretty much no dungeons at all.  And the quests are, for the most part, really great, but I think there aren't really enough of them.

[Jayngo]

 

How much does play time matter? I wouldn't want every game to be 50+ hours... there isn't enough time!

 

For a linear RPG, maybe 20-30 hours?

 

I was playing Breath of Fire 3 on PSP recently, took about 28 hours-ish, to do basically everything in the game. That was enough.

 

Also playing FF Tactics, i've been on it on and of for nearly 2 years now and still haven't completed the damn thing.

That's a good point.  If you compare to 99% of games, 50 hours is fantastic.  But we have to compare Deadfire to other cRPGs, and those tend to be very long.  For 2D cRPGs, I've played Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Icewind Dale 1 and 2, Fallout 1 and 2, Planescape: Torment, Pillars of Eternity, and Tyranny.  I would say the average across these games is probably somewhere around 80 - 100 hours for me.  So 50 hours compared to other 2D cRPGs is pretty short.

 

Agreed. Classic cRPG's (like this is is emulating) have always been VERY long. Nothing around 28 hours, etc.

 

PoE took me 60 hours and with both White March expansions I tapped out at 96 hours.

 

I'm disappointed to hear how short this game is, especially with the level cap being much higher in the base game. When I heard that originally, I thought this base game was going to be huge and take a massive amount of time to complete.

 

EDIT: Tyranny was a VERY short game. As much as I want to call it a "traditional cRPG," I can't just for the simple fact it was so short.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Jayngo

[Excalibur_2102]

Well, I am not too bothered about play time all that much.  Getting older has meant shorter play times are better in some way.  It took me over a year to finish witcher 3 and all expansions, with 200 hours.  And straight after Ive played Zelda BotW, which has also taken me approx. a year at 150 hours, so... yeah.

 

Pillars 1 took around 100 hours also (with white march), but I was mainly confused as the Devs (specifically Josh as I remember) said that game was so much bigger than the first.  Though there are people reporting there are less maps/areas in PoE2.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Excalibur_2102

[ThacoBell]

Length is not a benchmark of quality. I don't care how long "other crpgs" are. I have fun playing PoE2 and thats all that matters.

[Achilles]

For now, the lack of dungeons and the low number of quests are really discouraging me from a second run.

I count 93 completed quests in my playthrough. And again, I skipped some. But I guess “low number” is relative.

 

I feel like I’m understanding Josh’s recent presentation more the last couple of days. All some people want are dungeon crawlers.

[Skazz]

 

For now, the lack of dungeons and the low number of quests are really discouraging me from a second run.

I count 93 completed quests in my playthrough. And again, I skipped some. But I guess “low number” is relative.

 

I feel like I’m understanding Josh’s recent presentation more the last couple of days. All some people want are dungeon crawlers.

 

 

Out of curiosity, what presentation are you referring to?

[Achilles]

Though there are people reporting there are less maps/areas in PoE2.

How are they accounting for overland map encounters? I think there were about 20 naval bounties (and probably just as many optional non-bounty naval encounters). Not to mention scripted interactions. Are these one map? No maps? Each one a separate map?

[Achilles]

 

 

For now, the lack of dungeons and the low number of quests are really discouraging me from a second run.

I count 93 completed quests in my playthrough. And again, I skipped some. But I guess “low number” is relative.

 

I feel like I’m understanding Josh’s recent presentation more the last couple of days. All some people want are dungeon crawlers.

Out of curiosity, what presentation are you referring to?

The one where he lamented that “traditional RPG players” freak out if you try to do anything different with the genre. I want to say that it was GDC, but he gave a few recently and there’s a good chance I’m confusing it with another one: