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Ow, seriously? I know nothing about chanters, never used one even in poe1. What chant it is? Might add a chanter to my party :)

 

Its not a chant, its an invocation: https://pillarsofeternity2.wiki.fextralife.com/Set+to+Their+Purpose,+They+All+Knew+Their+Part

 

It gives the Brilliant Inspiration, which regenerates class ressources over time.

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It's not like regaining discipline of zeal every 3 sec is much less broken :).

 

I would even remove the passives that restore resources on kill tbh.

Really? What abilities make the paladin so OP? Sacred immolation?  :lol:

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It's not like regaining discipline of zeal every 3 sec is much less broken :).

 

I would even remove the passives that restore resources on kill tbh.

Really? What abilities make the paladin so OP? Sacred immolation?  :lol:

 

How about being immune to death on LoH (unlimited with this invocation) and +gazillion to all defenses from faith and conviction. You don't need to do a lot of damage if you can't die. Btw you can spam Sacred immolation all you want if you can't die anyway :p.

Edited by MadDemiurg
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It's not like regaining discipline of zeal every 3 sec is much less broken :).

 

I would even remove the passives that restore resources on kill tbh.

Really? What abilities make the paladin so OP? Sacred immolation?  :lol:

 

How about being immune to death on LoH (unlimited with this invocation) and +gazillion to all defenses from faith and conviction. You don't need to do a lot of damage if you can't die. Btw you can spam Sacred immolation all you want if you can't die anyway :p.

 

 

Pally is OP Multiclass, weak single class.

 

Needs big buffs to T8 and Sacred Immolation to be more balanced overall.

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Sacred immolation needs buffs (mostly less self damage), immortality LoH needs a fix or needs to go altogether, Faith & Conviction needs a nerf, most of the support exhortations need a buff. Could use better PL8 & 9 Abilities, yes, although if abilities get better zeal on kill needs to go.

Edited by MadDemiurg
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Sacred immolation needs buffs (mostly less self damage), immortality LoH needs a fix or needs to go altogether, Faith & Conviction needs a nerf, most of the support exhortations need a buff. Could use better PL8 & 9 Abilities, yes, although if abilities get better zeal on kill needs to go.

 

If the tooltip is correct, sacred immolation does seem pretty weak.  If you add up all the ticks with high might, int, and power level, and factor in that it can hit multiple enemies at once, I think it is good.  It is slow, but steady and since it ticks in the background, you can just keep spamming LoHs while it does it's work.  I added a build earlier today for this.  The neat thing is that you can just dump CON and RES since they don't do anything when Health is meaningless.  Also don't need armor, and can freely disregard deflection.  If not soloing, you can get everything in place by level 13 and have plenty of resources to make two characters immortal.

 

Regarding the 6 phrases needed... that used to be an issue in POE1, but now you get starting phrases so you can cast that invocation at the very start of battle.  Because it has such a long duration, there is plenty of time to get another 6 phrases in before recasting, even with a vanilla chanter.

 

The main culprit is the chanter invocation... there are several ways to use this that effectively makes you immortal so getting rid of or changing all the other supporting abilities won't solve the problem.    The funny thing is that there is a way weaker version of that invocation at the top ability tier (His heart did fill...) that grants a whopping 1 power source resource.... no duration, no other buffs.  It is just strictly 100x worse and two levels higher making it level 19 for a single-class chanter and requires more phrases.

 

I wasn't involved in the beta, but I think a lot of the core mechanics needed more time for balancing and reworking.   Like power level scaling being applied inconsistently (in hidden ways), the lack of incentive to single class because most of the high tier abilities are worse (sometimes strictly worse) than lower tier ones, and some abilities being so clearly out-classed that there is no reason, even fringe ones, to ever take them.  Because you give up "talents" to take more activated abilities, and the fact that abilities can be spammed over and over, and because activated ability effects don't stack with other similar ones, the best strategy is to just ignore most of the abilities and just take passive buffs instead.

 

While you could simply pretend the OP abilities don't exist, that kind of takes away from the joy of trying to come up with the best min-max build. :)

 

I think for a new "challenge mode", someone should make a party, or solo character, by rolling a twelve sided die twice (roll again on 12).  If you roll doubles, you get a single class character.  Then maybe some of the wonky multi-class combinations with funny names will actually get played.

Edited by Braven
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... need 6 phrases to come.

You start combat with a bunch of phrases now. A high level Chanter will either be able to cast it straight away it do so after on or two chants. Once the invocation is cast it builds up phrases in addition to your normal chants so keeping it up is easy (is got a big duration anyway).

 

So I didn't say this is much of a downside to it. Honestly I think it's a most powerful ability in the game right now. Watching VictorCreed using it to spam Charge is just insane (Charge is also kinda broken as it full attacks everyone on the path which, when combined with cleaving stance, leads to rapid death).

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It's not like regaining discipline of zeal every 3 sec is much less broken :).

 

I would even remove the passives that restore resources on kill tbh.

Really? What abilities make the paladin so OP? Sacred immolation?  :lol:

 

How about being immune to death on LoH (unlimited with this invocation) and +gazillion to all defenses from faith and conviction. You don't need to do a lot of damage if you can't die. Btw you can spam Sacred immolation all you want if you can't die anyway :p.

 

Death immunity looks good only on paper because the paladin doesn't need it to stay alive - a potion or a simple heal does the same thing. If it had 20-30s base duration maybe you could make a case... 

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... need 6 phrases to come.

You start combat with a bunch of phrases now. A high level Chanter will either be able to cast it straight away it do so after on or two chants. Once the invocation is cast it builds up phrases in addition to your normal chants so keeping it up is easy (is got a big duration anyway).

 

So I didn't say this is much of a downside to it. Honestly I think it's a most powerful ability in the game right now. Watching VictorCreed using it to spam Charge is just insane (Charge is also kinda broken as it full attacks everyone on the path which, when combined with cleaving stance, leads to rapid death).

 

The starting phrases seem kind of strange to me right now, sometimes I start with 7 phrases, sometimes with 6,

sometimes I can chain cast it out of combat to spot traps, sometimes it will not regen back up to 7 and I can't recast it.

But even if you start combat with "only" 6 phrases it doesn't take that long to get it to 7.

 

I'm atm trying to figure out which class could be more broken than fighter with it, since it needs to be a resource hungry class, wizard seems pretty crazy with meteor shower (please keep in mind the invocation not only regains resources but also empowers you for the whole 60 secs duration )

Edited by Raven Darkholme
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The benefits to Brilliant need to be changed. Maybe return an Empower point to those effected. Its only a 2.5m cone. So you wont likely get more than yourself plus 1 or 2 friendlies. Although, not allowing a second empower usage in the encounter. Something similar to what Sasha's Sabre does. This would simultaneously tone down the sabre and not make the ability so broken.

Edited by Ganrich
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It's not like regaining discipline of zeal every 3 sec is much less broken :).

 

I would even remove the passives that restore resources on kill tbh.

Really? What abilities make the paladin so OP? Sacred immolation?  :lol:

 

How about being immune to death on LoH (unlimited with this invocation) and +gazillion to all defenses from faith and conviction. You don't need to do a lot of damage if you can't die. Btw you can spam Sacred immolation all you want if you can't die anyway :p.

 

 

That's the issue with the game not having enough anti-buffer. The only one I ever saw being used in PoE1 and 2 combined is the wall of draining, IIRC, and like only once. The AI may have gotten better but it doesn't help all they know is how to deal damage and heal.

Edited by Zeitzbach
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It's not like regaining discipline of zeal every 3 sec is much less broken :).

 

I would even remove the passives that restore resources on kill tbh.

Really? What abilities make the paladin so OP? Sacred immolation?  :lol:

 

How about being immune to death on LoH (unlimited with this invocation) and +gazillion to all defenses from faith and conviction. You don't need to do a lot of damage if you can't die. Btw you can spam Sacred immolation all you want if you can't die anyway :p.

 

Death immunity looks good only on paper because the paladin doesn't need it to stay alive - a potion or a simple heal does the same thing. If it had 20-30s base duration maybe you could make a case... 

 

 

True, death immunity is not really needed, but that is like saying you don't need an OP build to win the game.  Any build can beat anything with enough consumables, good tactics, etc.  So how then do we define what makes one build more powerful than another?  The speed that you can kill enemies while not dying?  The fighter/chanter or wizard/chanter would be better in that regard.  However, if faced with thousands of enemies with thousands of HP that dealt thousands of damage at range.... the paladin would still win while all other builds would lose... so I guess it is a "hypothetical" best build if facing unrealistic difficulty.

Edited by Braven
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Being able to chain several minutes of immortality is broken, dispels or no dispels.

 

Having AI use some dispel abilities would be nice too, of course.

I actually got dispelled today on one of the islands near Magran's place, I was really surprised and wondered if that ever happened in Poe 1....

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It's not like regaining discipline of zeal every 3 sec is much less broken :).

 

I would even remove the passives that restore resources on kill tbh.

Really? What abilities make the paladin so OP? Sacred immolation?  :lol:

 

How about being immune to death on LoH (unlimited with this invocation) and +gazillion to all defenses from faith and conviction. You don't need to do a lot of damage if you can't die. Btw you can spam Sacred immolation all you want if you can't die anyway :p.

 

Death immunity looks good only on paper because the paladin doesn't need it to stay alive - a potion or a simple heal does the same thing. If it had 20-30s base duration maybe you could make a case... 

 

20-30s base duration would be broken beyond belief as it easily goes into 40-60+ sec with the right build. And maybe you won't normally need it - but it's because the game is too freaking easy for the most part right now. If the character is basically unkillable it's about as OP as it gets.

 

Btw, where's the logic about saying it's useless and then complaining about Sacred Immolation. If Sacred immolation is bad because it kills you, but you can't die, suddenly both are not useless.

Edited by MadDemiurg
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... need 6 phrases to come.

You start combat with a bunch of phrases now. A high level Chanter will either be able to cast it straight away it do so after on or two chants. Once the invocation is cast it builds up phrases in addition to your normal chants so keeping it up is easy (is got a big duration anyway).

 

So I didn't say this is much of a downside to it. Honestly I think it's a most powerful ability in the game right now. Watching VictorCreed using it to spam Charge is just insane (Charge is also kinda broken as it full attacks everyone on the path which, when combined with cleaving stance, leads to rapid death).

 

The starting phrases seem kind of strange to me right now, sometimes I start with 7 phrases, sometimes with 6,

sometimes I can chain cast it out of combat to spot traps, sometimes it will not regen back up to 7 and I can't recast it.

But even if you start combat with "only" 6 phrases it doesn't take that long to get it to 7.

 

I'm atm trying to figure out which class could be more broken than fighter with it, since it needs to be a resource hungry class, wizard seems pretty crazy with meteor shower (please keep in mind the invocation not only regains resources but also empowers you for the whole 60 secs duration )

 

 

Chanters start combat with phrases equal to the cost of their highest invocation (which includes cost penalties, e.g. troubador+1).  

 

This is why it is useful to pick up the most expensive invocation available in your tree, even if it's not not something you intend to use, because it provides the passive benefit of having more starting phrases.  

 

You regen up to your maximum starting phrases again after combat.  If you jump into the next combat too soon you might not be at maximum when combat starts, but otherwise you will always have enough phrases to cast your most expensive inv.  

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... need 6 phrases to come.

You start combat with a bunch of phrases now. A high level Chanter will either be able to cast it straight away it do so after on or two chants. Once the invocation is cast it builds up phrases in addition to your normal chants so keeping it up is easy (is got a big duration anyway).

 

So I didn't say this is much of a downside to it. Honestly I think it's a most powerful ability in the game right now. Watching VictorCreed using it to spam Charge is just insane (Charge is also kinda broken as it full attacks everyone on the path which, when combined with cleaving stance, leads to rapid death).

 

The starting phrases seem kind of strange to me right now, sometimes I start with 7 phrases, sometimes with 6,

sometimes I can chain cast it out of combat to spot traps, sometimes it will not regen back up to 7 and I can't recast it.

But even if you start combat with "only" 6 phrases it doesn't take that long to get it to 7.

 

I'm atm trying to figure out which class could be more broken than fighter with it, since it needs to be a resource hungry class, wizard seems pretty crazy with meteor shower (please keep in mind the invocation not only regains resources but also empowers you for the whole 60 secs duration )

 

Wizard can't have meteor shower when multiclassed with chanter. But all casters are very strong with it regardless.

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