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Politics' Official Eighteenth Thread


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Other "important documents" throughout history show many gods so maybe you guys should believe those hokum. Spread out your gods a bit so you don't get stuck with the butthurt god that punishes you to eternal torment for not following his "word". :lol:

 

 

I'm not really sure who 'you guys' are. I'm not actually religious. I was just surprised to see you casually dismiss a huge swath of humanity. 

 

 

 

What the what? Why we exist? I don't really care "why" but Ill go with a fortuitous sequence of events and biology. NOT that some omnipotent being created us for the lulz. However I am willing to accept ANY, and I mean ANY, physical proof that I can see or touch. Can you hook a brother up?

 

Honestly, fortuitous sequence of events and biology sounds just as unlikely as omnipotent being to me. I am firmly in the agnostic camp. I have no idea. Everyone is free to have their opinions. I'm right there with you against religion when it is used to subjugate and control, but I just see it as a tool. Just like guns. :p

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I love my christian and muslim friends, but I think religion (of any sort) is ridiculous.  I can respect the positive aspects of religion (trying to follow Jesus' teachings etc) - but it's hard to fathom how people I know to be smarter than me can believe in a supreme magical being without any evidence. I'm sure they feel we heathens are ridiculous too though. :devil:

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I'm somewhat of an agnostic/anti-theist but If I'm being honest with myself I can understand the thrust of theistic thinking. Perhaps it's my upbringing in a faith, but the pragmatists have their point, knowing the absolute truth is impossible. Our best efforts rely on tons of empirical work and formalization, but on an average day you rely on your own self-developed heuristics. Even if imperfect approximations. Having a salient narrative that guides you through the social realm of humanity, that guides you through the stages of a successful human life. Something that you don't have to entirely construct from scratch from yourself. Something that is broader than just the best advice of one's parents. That's valuable, and religion solidified such guidance early in human civilization. Plus it qualms fears of death and loss. However it's a dogma of antiquity and just doesn't deliver the same returns that it once could.

 

I think studying all faiths in a sort of nominal secular way allows you to reclaim the perspective and best values, while not taking everything as literal truth or even as parables whose message is true. Instead religions should be treated like anything else that can be learned from, and as always there is due diligence in learning the right lessons.

 

Some people of faith really do deserve the harshest scorn, for outside of humility before their lord, they lack all humility and due diligence with regards to their fellow human beings. Writing off everyone of faith just makes you look like you have a chip on your shoulder and don't really have any sense as to what a more sensible secular humanist world would look like. Organized religion however... that's really where all my scorn comes out.

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I love my christian and muslim friends, but I think religion (of any sort) is ridiculous. I can respect the positive aspects of religion (trying to follow Jesus' teachings etc) - but it's hard to fathom how people I know to be smarter than me can believe in a supreme magical being without any evidence. I'm sure they feel we heathens are ridiculous too though. :devil:

eh, I’ve seen religion change people to the better... they at least say they changed because of religion, I say they change regardless or maybe even though. But if I ask them to be critical, it’s only fair to ask the same of me. So perhaps they’re right

Everybody knows the deal is rotten

Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton

For your ribbons and bows

And everybody knows

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I was joking Gfted1, you're good..

 

I'm agreeing with Hurlshot. Asserting one impossible to prove thing is true over another impossible to prove thing sounds a lot like faith to me. But since we are talking about leaps of faith either way the only folks with the rational position are the agnostics who don't take the leap.

 

But as for me, I'm firmly in the camp of there being a God and creator to all things (presumably the two being the same). Although I did not come to that conclusion lightly or early in life. Now, what God actually wants, or thinks of us, of the various churches who say they know, of everything else is anyone's guess. And anyone who tells you they KNOW you should probably keep away from.

 

It's fair to guess God does feel some affection for all of his creations (all of us and everything else too) so that makes him a pretty sympathetic figure in my book. Can you imagine how it would feel if one of your children killed another and tuned to you and said "I did it for you Dad!"

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Get off my lawn!

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I'm agreeing with Hurlshot. Asserting one impossible to prove thing is true over another impossible to prove thing sounds a lot like faith to me.

 

Except it's not, but that is a whole different can of worms and wouldn't really belong into a political thread anyway. But it's a very human trait, looking for patterns and order where there might be none.

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I'm not really sure who 'you guys' are. I'm not actually religious. I was just surprised to see you casually dismiss a huge swath of humanity.

"You guys" are those who believe in a god. A sampling of other things that I casually dismiss, and those that believe in them are: Reptilians, yeti, Nessie, werewolves and vampires (but not reverse vampires, those are real).  

 

Honestly, fortuitous sequence of events and biology sounds just as unlikely as omnipotent being to me.

I don't really know how to respond to this. Go plant a fruit seed and come back in a few weeks.

 

I am firmly in the agnostic camp. I have no idea. Everyone is free to have their opinions. I'm right there with you against religion when it is used to subjugate and control, but I just see it as a tool. Just like guns. :p

I feel that organized religion's were specifically designed to subjugate and control.

 

without religion we'd've colonized Mars already

Pfft, Alpha Centauri.

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Aren't there different kinds of asbestos though? Some you can pull apart with your hands like cotton candy and it's fibers immediately go airborne.

 

Blue and grey were the main types, iirc. Blue is intrinsically dangerous since it will very readily break up into fibres; grey is safe for most in situ stuff and proximal applications but can be very bad in case of demolitions and the like, and demolitions are to practical purposes inevitable. My school had grey asbestos work benches in its science labs and they were perfectly safe, but when it comes time to getting rid of them it will be expensive since that's when you have the main risk of it breaking up.

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Honestly, fortuitous sequence of events and biology sounds just as unlikely as omnipotent being to me.

I don't really know how to respond to this. Go plant a fruit seed and come back in a few weeks.

 

 

 

Well I wouldn't call myself omnipotent, but I appreciate the compliment.  ;)

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Aren't there different kinds of asbestos though? Some you can pull apart with your hands like cotton candy and it's fibers immediately go airborne.

 

Blue and grey were the main types, iirc. Blue is intrinsically dangerous since it will very readily break up into fibres; grey is safe for most in situ stuff and proximal applications but can be very bad in case of demolitions and the like, and demolitions are to practical purposes inevitable. My school had grey asbestos work benches in its science labs and they were perfectly safe, but when it comes time to getting rid of them it will be expensive since that's when you have the main risk of it breaking up.

 

 

Gotcha, yeah it was the blue I had in mind. That stuff is freaky.

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I'm agreeing with Hurlshot. Asserting one impossible to prove thing is true over another impossible to prove thing sounds a lot like faith to me.

 

Except it's not, but that is a whole different can of worms and wouldn't really belong into a political thread anyway. But it's a very human trait, looking for patterns and order where there might be none.

 

We have the Big Bang Theory to explain the present state of our universe on a macro-scale. AFAIK, we do not really have any working theory as to why existence (basic matter and energy) is a thing at all - I've personally always thought the only logical line of thinking is that nothing should exist, since if you keep going back in "time" (i.e. prior states of the universe), at some point, something must've arisen from nothing. Maybe "time" is an illusion, and trying to understand the universe in terms of prior states is a completely wrong way of looking at things...but that apparently seems to be the way we're stuck with. Alternatively, how could matter and energy have always simply existed? Either way I look at it, the entire concept of anything existing is a fuzzy, incomprehensible, and utterly illogical mess for which there seems to be no answer...and I've never heard anything even approaching a working answer to solve it. Maybe you know something I don't, though.

 

So it's not exactly a surprise that some people would prefer to put a little faith into a religion than think about these big money questions that have no answers (while still managing to be pretty existentially frightening by simply being asked). Jesus, for example, is pretty well accepted by historians to have existed - whether or not he did or said 99.99% of the things described in the Bible, or whether he was in any way divine(ly inspired), those are things that we cannot confirm to any degree. Still, just the fact that there's just that tiny little bit of consensus-accredited authenticity (his basic existence and its apparent effect upon the world) along with the fact that he existed only a mere hundred generations ago...and of course, the legitimacy effect of so many still apparently following him (if a billion people followed Scientology instead, it too would automatically have some legitimacy simply by the sheer numbers)...is enough to put a little pragmatic doubt and curiosity into even the most agnostic of minds. Me? I think anything being divine is horridly, dreadfully slim, Jesus included - though I do hope otherwise, although perhaps not in the way many of his followers might envision. But there's no way I'd make that leap of faith into proclaiming that I *know* there is nothing divine (or something like it).

Edited by Bartimaeus
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That's not really what I was going for, but I appreciate the reply nontheless. It's a bit too late to discuss this in detail, I just wanted to point out that between two apparently equally unlikely scenarios we can - usually - pick one that is superior through Occam's razor, at least until such a time new evidence or observation falsify one or both assumptions.

 

Not that this truly applies to faith or the idea of a creator entity. Because faith is not falsifiable by default.

Edited by majestic
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:lol:  You all realize we've had this discussion before right?

Get off my lawn!

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Pfft, Alpha Centauri.

 

Humph! You do realize there is no proof there are any planets around that star right. In fact SCIENCE has PROVEN there are no planets around Alpha Centauri B. Yet here you are believing in your little fairy tales about mythical planets. You've never been to Alpha Centauri, you've never seen any planets there so don't go giving me your superstitious nonsense. I've never been there but I KNOW there are no planets because a scientist (some guy named Dumusque whose never been there either) said so. 

 

:lol:

Get off my lawn!

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Politics or humor? I couldn't decide but Gfted1 sounds like he needs a laugh soooo:

 

34669153_952884044874466_506470923025514

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Get off my lawn!

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I always like to point out the fact that the first guy to propose the Big Bang was a Catholic priest. :)

 

 

:lol: You all realize we've had this discussion before right?

 

 

Of course! Religion is right up there with Politics and Bioware when it comes to fun controversies to discuss. :p

Edited by Hurlshot
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Not really a theological take here but if you'll indulge me. So the christian right which is a firm supporter of Trump ( if you think that is rife with logical contradictions wait until you see where I'm going with this) right? Right. So they are among the groups cheering illegal immigrant families being broken up and sent back to  wherever the hell they came from. Right? Right. Those same Trump supporters are then donating to churches who are funding missionaries to go to those same countries there folks are getting shipped to. Am i the only one who sees a lot opportunity to same money and airline miles here?  

Edited by Guard Dog

Get off my lawn!

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That certainly seems like a scheme far-left liberals (though I guess could be applicable to anywhere on the spectrum) would make up, heh, make the missionaries pay for transporting those individuals back to their home countries and have them fly on the same airplane that the missionaries are on.

 

You're the first one that I know of that has thought up that idea though.

 

edit: No, wait, stereotypical far left liberals would probably do the exact opposite of far right conservatives and deport as few as possible. *shrug*

Edited by smjjames
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:lol:  Doh! I was thinking more "don't deport them and invite them to church here". But we could go your way too. 

Get off my lawn!

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I thought that's what you were going for with the 'save money and airmiles' bit, but 'deporting' them to the churches funding missionaries going to those various countries does sound like a nice way to highlight the hypocrisy.

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Well PCs. You got the majority. No excuses. But, Doug Ford. Why did he have to be leader? <.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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