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What is your worst single-class in Deadfire?

Your worst single-class in Deadfire (no subclass)?  

270 members have voted

  1. 1. Your worst single-class in Deadfire?

    • Druid
      5
    • Chanter
      15
    • Rogue
      16
    • Paladin
      9
    • Fighter
      2
    • Ranger
      103
    • Wizard
      7
    • Cipher
      36
    • Priest
      53
    • Barbarian
      11
    • Monk
      13


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I must agree that Priest is bad - it would be my 2nd worst class.

 

I have Cipher as no 1, since charming and a great T9 ability can only get you so far. Ciphers in PoE, especially the early ones, were absolutely fantastic, like the best - so I think their fall from grace hit me the hardest.

 

am admitted only level 12 as haven't been playing overmuch, but ciphers actual strike us as needing a bit o' a nerf.  after beta 4 changes to both cipher specific and general penetration mechanics, the capacity for a cipher to build focus quick is erasing focus generation concerns-- no wonder there is sudden so many ascendent builds being suggested by the powergamers, eh? our blue monkey companion were gonna be a witch, but we decided straight cipher would be the way to go and we don't feel as if we made a bad choice.  charming is indeed powerful, but am not having difficulty finding other useful abilities.  amplified wave is no longer a You Win button ability, but aoe is enormous, does decent damage and interrupts.  as we level, more foes have concentration and echoing shield is becoming a go to ability. secret horrors, borrowed instinct, mind blades, etc, is all useful to us. the only ability we took so far which has disappointed is pain block, but even pain block is useful in our party as am playing a helwalker contemplative.  

 

am thinking am doing something wrong with rangers, 'cause our maia is underperforming compared to other stiker kinda characters.  dunno. had this issue in the beta as well. 

 

priest?  *sigh* is a handful o' sooper powerful buffs and abilities for a priest, but much o' the divine spell catalog is filled with highly situational inspirations and spells which almost nobody in their right mind will choose given how few power choices a player has available.  litany for the body is a single-target, second tier inspiration and a 4th level spell. who takes this save for some specific multiclass build... and even then am having a difficult time imagining usefulness.  sure, is gonna be times when fighting critters who spam constitution afflictions and a priest is gonna likely wish they had litany o' the body, but what percentage o' encounters?  wizards also have many situational useful spells, but they got grimoires so not need actual take such spells at levelup and may instead swap grimoires for particular battles.  holy radiance is a nice ability, particularly 'gainst vessels.  the spiritual weapons are also powerful, but extreme limiting as one needs build a character 'round the specific weapon type to get real use from it.

 

am suspecting folks is gonna soon discover just how powerful a few priestly buffs is and is gonna once again be difficult to have a party sans a priest.  salvation of time, when cast by a priest with high int is impressive... most impressive.  am getting an extra 19.5 second duration on beneficial abilities... which may not sound op until one considers how such impacts abilities such as monk swift strikes, eh?  those ten second buffs begin looking a bit better when one considers the impact o' salvation o' time. is only one example of many. am guessing priests once again become quasi-essential.  even so, we suspect single-class priests is gonna be extreme limited in build diversity.  deity choice will be the only meaningful choice for a single class priest.

 

one simple change which would improve priests is, much like poe did for priestly favored weapons, offer two spiritual weapon options per deity.  wael priests would, for example, be able to choose rod spiritual weapon or staff, or even both if the priest were so inclined to spend two talents.

 

is genuine baffling to us how original deadfire priest plan, with the first beta, had 'em suffer "school" prohibitions. if deadfire were pnp, we would have all kinda options for improving the curious limited priest spell options.  pnp changes is so much easier to implement than pc game. example:  in addition (or alternative) to the one deity-specific "free" spell per talent/ability level, we would designate an open spell slot per talent level which could be changed with every rest opportunity.  our suggestion would make the highly situational spells worthy o' use beyond as a scroll cast.  return the free spells to the priests general general catalog o' options if such a thing is too unbalancing.  unfortunate, am predicting such a feature would be prohibitive implement, particular post release.  perhaps for an expansion the developers could work on a priest "trinket."  each class were original 'posed to have a trinket as does wizards, no? prayer beads or vade mecum or medicine bag or some deity-specific object which performs a similar but lesser role as does the wizard grimoire. 1 spell per talent level imprinted on the trinket.  'course the trinket could do something complete different and such would be grand, but am specific considering ways to improve lack o' priest casting options.

 

etc.

 

is not difficult to come up with imaginative ways to improve the priest and ranger, though am suspecting most suggestions will tend towards munchkinism... as is the case with most fan feedback.  am thinking the biggest problem is finding a way to improve classes which is not gonna be resource intensive, cause at the moment, developers is gonna be bug hunting.  after bug hunting is no longer dire, then we expect rebalancing o' potd.  address ranger and priest issues is thus more o' an expansion/sequel fodder, no?  such a recognition is terrible for Gromnir as we see priests as being particular relevant in a game such as deadfire. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

  • Like 4

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Great post, Gromnir!

 

You made a solid case for Cipher, and since I really like that class, I'll save it for my third playthrough, when the game's patched up a bunch.

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Only paladin left now. In a way, you can say that the paladin won the single-class race this time. ;)


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Only paladin left now. In a way, you can say that the paladin won the single-class race this time. ;)

maybe we should introduce Annoymen...that should help right?  :w00t:

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I'll bet ye've got all sorts o' barmy questions! (She mimics your heroic stance) Greetin's, I have some questions... can ye tell me about this place? Who's the Lady o' Pain? I'm lookin' fer the magic Girdle of Swank Iron, have ye seen it? Do ye know where a portal ta the 2,817th Plane o' the Abyss might be? Do ye know where the Holy Flamin' Frost-Brand Gronk-Slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' Woundin' an' Returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-Out-Yer-Bum is?

 

Elderly Hive Dweller

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What is exactly the greatness of Single class Paladin ? Self-revive ? Supa-Hastening ?

 

And Fighter by the way ? +5 all stats self-buff ? -4 Armor ?

Edited by Elric Galad

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Paladin is perfect for multiclass. Never a bad choice and bring a lot to the team.

 

In an other hand I am more surprised for the result of CHANTER...

 

But I think, people do that because think base chanter is at the same time extremely limited and extremely varied.

 

Varied because of paralysed/invocations/brisk recitation.

 

BUT... sometimes, once you follow your choice, you have not crazy choice. One invocation+Upgrade + 1 offensive invocation and too few passive. (like POE1)

 

But for the passive, this is the situation of nearly all the classes. So a Chanter is one of the best class, but when you optimized, you cant be varied when you have choose your way. (skald = offensive etc)

 

Fighter is better than POE1 but with recent nerf of Disciplined strike, he is now less powerful than berserker. Sadly.

Edited by theBalthazar

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Why no votes for druids? I found druid spells very lacking

the traditional casters each have a different role... which is expected in a class-based game.  am personal not in favor of class-based games, but so it goes.  the druid has shape shifting and the wild strike talents in addition to having arguable the best spells for healing allies and damaging foes. the priest is the bestest traditional buffer and has many heals.  the wizard has better debuffs than priests or druids and extreme flexibility, particular with the grimoires which are ridiculous op.  ciphers and chanters are arguable casters as well, though the caster distinction is itself kinda meaningless.  regardless, in a class-based game, no class should be able to do everything well.  is no real point in having separate classes if each class may do everything. druids got a few categories o' talents in which they excel.  given their role, druids are a fantastic option... and like so many classes, they multiclass particular well with paladins and monks if you wanna get more murder, death, kill outta your beast form. 

 

'course, we would rather gargle broken glass than keep tekehwhtever in our party any longer than necessary.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Replaying with Single-class Ranger on PotD. Gonna be awhile before I can reach level 13-14 where it starts to show whether going multi is better or not but so far so good. Being able to mark pray, Modal arquebus and then accurate wounding shot for easy +50 accuracy at level 5 is quite awesome though especially against mages, the only enemy type that can deal damage. +60 accuracy instakill with empowered accurate wounding shot.

 

Right now, I have some key skill looked at being

 

1) The mark. Perma extra +10 acc for the whole fight is always good.

2) Twin shot because it's a +100% damage steroid.

3) Evasive Fire as it's a quick move tool (really far range) that also deal damage

4) Concussive Tranquilizer as an instant removal for Unbending trunk so the enemy don't take 20 seconds to kill

5) Furious call to use with Evasive fire as you can easily reposition behind enemy group and follow it up with line damage+prone

6) Whirling strike to follow after Furious call. It is a full attack AoE so dual wielding something that deal massive damage can easily allow you to try and go for a quick wipe.

 

 

Why no votes for druids? I found druid spells very lacking

 

Great Maelstorm allow you to end all non-boss fight before it even begins as you can also pre-cast it. 700 giant AoE DoT field that also cause a debuff to strike an explosive thunder on whoever gets hit by the DoT? Broken.

 

T8 is terrible though but at this point it's probably intentional to make T8 terrible as a way to balance people going for T9s.

Edited by Zeitzbach

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Paladin is perfect for multiclass. Never a bad choice and bring a lot to the team.

 

In an other hand I am more surprised for the result of CHANTER...

Chanterss also follow the rule of "never a bad MC." They are super powerful, and I don't know if this is because of their more laid back play style, people dont understand their utility, they aren't a MOAR damages kind of class, or whatever. There is a Chanter sub for every combo, and every sub is really powerful.

 

My current Rogue/Troubadour has the Weakening phrase, and that means I can focus on pure Dots of the rogue, and not worry about double Affliction requirements by burning through other resources to get Deathblows working. Makes up for the loss of some Sneak Attack as I can be much more frugal with Guile Usage.

 

I can open with Arterial Strike while my flail modal is on and then use a damage invocation to melt that target, and then move on to the next target with an arterial strike, and between it Deathblows, and deep wounds people die. If I want to melt something a bit hardier I have an upgraded Ring the Bell with one handed weapons for a big DoT.

 

Sasha's Sabre means I can do an Empowered damage invocation, and follow up with Killer's Froze Stiff which leaves targets paralyzed. That gives +50% crit. Or I can do this the other way around, an empowered AoE paralyze and Then follow up with AoE damage with that crit chance applying to the damage spell.

 

Since I am a troubadour, I can really play with double phrases or turn on Brisk Recitation and pump out some invocations. All the while I am dishing out Rogue damage.

 

Chanters are godly. Every sub is good, and so good that they core class looks bad. Wanna summon? Beckoned. Wanna be 100% melee with crit focus? Skald. Want a more versatile spell castery Chanter? Troubadour. There is a Chanter sub that will multiclass well with every other subclass in the game. They just rock.

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I agree with the Priest reasoning from Gromnir and others.

 

Regarding Paladins, I don't think single-classed Paladins are weak, however I think they benefit from many multiclasses but spending most ability points on their paladin class. For instance, I will always make Pallegina a Herald and let her have a handful of great chants. Mixtures with Cipher works well as with any other warrior class.

 

They're not the most powerful single class, there's just nobody who thinks they're the weakest either.

Edited by Yenkaz
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Yeah, that's a good point.


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Priests?  They were already a class with a lot of spells you'd never use, but at least you had the option.  Now you have limited picks, so I just find myself going multi class devotions for the faithful buff bot.  Take suppress affliction, withdraw, consecrated ground, and devotions for the faithful.  I'm sure there's some high level spells to eventually use too, but all the low level junk is depressing.

 

Same with ciphers, to much low level junk.  Sure they bloom late game, but it'd be nice to have something to do in the mean time.

 

At least wizards get good spells throughout.

Edited by Climhazzard

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I think it's tempting to say that a ranger isn't that bad because you just equip frostseeker and can do alright. Once they adjust the difficulty settings I hope they give the ranger some buffs to keep up with the other classes. After 20 hours I used IRoll20s and used OpenCharacterCreation and Kill <Pet> to switch from ranger (sharpshooter) to swashbuckler (devoted) since I wanted to not have my main character be the worst in the party (even though I'm playing PotD and it's pretty easy already). I had to cheat because I wouldn't play this game over again. I would play it over again if the writers managed to create a story I enjoyed more (Like BG2 or PS:T) or it was more of a rogue-like or had rogue-like options that disabled story.

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One thing seems pretty clear by now, Ranger is no Ranga, but rather Roparu, and of the outcast gravedigger kind.

 

I presume there is already a Save the Ranger thread!

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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There is a lot of perks and special procs when it comes to criticals, and priest is a fine enough support which makes the rest of your party shine by granting them Devotion+Dire Blessings.

 

Their spells are pretty good: their main weakness probably would lie in the reliance on fire-base damage.  Thankfully not too many enemies are resistant or immune to fire.  Every party needs a primary healer for tough fights, and we really only have two choices: priest and druid.  The latter has more elemental offensive spells, and the former has the buffs.

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I have a feeling people say single-class ranger suck simply because none of the T8/T9 skills really allow them to just stand around and wipe. Many want Ranger to be a pure range class only for T8 T9 to be pet-based with a melee skill. The skills are already way better than say, Paladins and Priests.

Edited by Zeitzbach

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Monk, because for reasons I have mentioned on these forums many times, I hate martiat arts themed Monks in RPG's taking place in fantasy Europe or a derivative there of.

Also Cipher is BA, you just gotta know how to use em!  That high level mass charm for example is evil. 

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Im sad I picked Paladin\Wizard its super tanky but its kinda boring.
Should have gone Fighter\Thief or Fighter\Chanter

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I've read that some think Wizards are gutted and that Rangers are unvaried and bad. I've also read that Rogues suck.

Still, after 50h in the backer beta, and over 50h in Deadfire, my own candidate, disregarding subclasses, for the worst class in Deadfire 

would be... *drumroll*

 

Cipher!

 

It hasn't done me any favours, really. And it used to be my favourite in PoE1 - I even PotD-soloed the game early on with one. Sad.

 

What is yours?

 

EDIT: I've added a poll! :)

Dude ciphers have some seriosuly powerful stuf

 

Whisper of reasons (arguably the most powerful level 1 ability of all classes)

Pain block (super useful)

Amplified wave  

Time parasite

 

They decided to screw up defensisve mindweb for some reason by taking someone out after they get hit

 

But yeah i find rangers pretty **** at the moment, to much abilities wasted on a stupid pet at the expense of the ranger himself. I stay right away from them

Edited by master guardian

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Ranger has only 1 function imo - take out / interrupt mages and priests....great for that and alpha strikes....bad for everything else

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Ranger has only 1 function imo - take out / interrupt mages and priests....great for that and alpha strikes....bad for everything else

anyclass with a ranged weapon can do that

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Ranger has only 1 function imo - take out / interrupt mages and priests....great for that and alpha strikes....bad for everything else

anyclass with a ranged weapon can do that

But the ranger and companion are better at it

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After the poor Ranger, I must say that the spread and the relatively low scores speak volumes about the rest of the classes being decent enough as far as single-class performance goes.

Well done, Obsidian! You only need to fix the Ranger, and perhaps the Priest a bit.

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I don't think Ranger is outright bad, so much as kinda boring and lacking in choices at the higher levels. They could use a couple more Level Eight and Nine abilities to give people an actual incentive to play pure class Rangers.

 

Priest also seems blah, although I haven't spent much time with the class. (My main is a Lifegiver Druid so I benched Xoti most of the time.)

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