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Wizard subclasses are kind of crappy, but Wizard base class is awesome.

 

One of the most powerful single classes, and one of the most powerful builds overall.

 

It just takes a few levels to get powerful, they have a weak start like most CPRGs.  

 

It's not really kind of crappy. Wizard subclasses are garbage. Not sure what the devs were thinking there.

 

 

 

Wizard subclasses are kind of crappy, but Wizard base class is awesome.

 

One of the most powerful single classes, and one of the most powerful builds overall.

 

It just takes a few levels to get powerful, they have a weak start like most CPRGs.  

 

A few levels is an understatement.  They start becoming more than one of the least useful classes at level 7.  The main issue is that the majority of the spell rank 1-2 spells are complete garbage.  Even once you have access to the third tier, you still don't have enough casts to make any real difference unless you cheese your way through the game by using empower to return points and then rest after every fight...

 

It takes a whole lot of levels before they have enough casts to do anything other than Chill Fog (which is actually ridiculously good, but at the same time not something that can be cast every fight).

 

 

The slicken nerf hurt my soul. :(

Edited by Ryz009
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I will let my Aloth with 7 different grimoires that destroys crap constantly in my game know he sucks and his class is gimped.

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I just tested a Fury/Evoker using console commands to get experience to reach the maximum level. I could select all the thunder, fire and ice spells that I wanted even distributing my points in the two classes. I don't think this new system is bad. Grimoires add a lot of options and versatility, although if you choose a subclass you risk not finding a good one.

 

When I play as this character I'll probably have Fassina in my party as a Conjurer since I like mages and I'd miss the conjuration and transmutation spells. So I don't mind the restriction.

 

As for the level 8 and 9 spells that I miss in multiclass, I think I'll simply get them from scrolls (Wilting Wind, Avenging Storm, Great Maelstrom, Meteor Shower and Tornado are some of the higher level options) even though I won't be able to empower them (I assume).

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There could be passive for casters "1 extra cast of level X spell" probably limited to first levels.

There is this situation that wizard early on could pick spells, but if player is fine with grimoire content, then picking extra spells does not change much. What is missing is spell use.

 

Other aproach is to move more neutral passives to level 1.

Stuff like weapon style, defensive passives, toughness, elemental dmg.

 

And also make deep pocket neutral passive(extra scroll slots in itembar), also at level 1.

 

But overall game xp accelerates to lv 7, and at this point wizards have nice mix of blast, cc, and defensive spells.

Swingging scepters (or other weapon) is not that bad neither.

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I hate 6 second cast times, but wizards are still powerful at high levels and seem like probably the strongest caster to me.

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A few levels is an understatement.  They start becoming more than one of the least useful classes at level 7.  The main issue is that the majority of the spell rank 1-2 spells are complete garbage.

Level 1:

Minoletta’s Minor Missle - level 12 and still using it. Good spell against anyone vonourable to crush damage.

Eldritch Aim - useful sell buff if you want or land important spells (not using it in current playthrough. Gave some accuracy bonus items and Aloth doesn’t miss when targeting the right defences). + outside buffs

Chill Fog - just as good as in PoE1

Thirst of Tattered Veil - probably my favourite interrupt. Quick, reliable, long range. Crafted bunch of scrolls and gave it to couple of other characters.

Fan of Flames - pretty strong AOE for anyone vonourable. With less choke points it’s easier to move your wizard to the position where he can actually use it without hurting your own.

Level2

Necrotic Lance - great single character damage

Combusting wounds

Etc.

Don’t feel like writing out more. There are plenty of good wizard spells even early on. It takes couple levels before player gets into real fights. For early fights spell selection is absolutely sufficient.

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I've never mained a wizard in Pillars, as I loved Aloth in 1. However, in Deadfire, I find the wizard a bit frustrating. The Grimoires annoy me as they are mostly the same, and it's  hard to decide what spells he should learn, so basically it's a case of finding the Grimoire/s that has/have the most unique spells in, and then rerolling him around that/them while trying to remember which spells are in them. I'm lugging around a ton of grimoires that have like 3-4 different spells in them each but only use 2. I also don't like the layout of the spell books - it was better in 1. If this was done to prevent multicalss wizards from being op, maybe they should have just applied it when the wizard was actually multiclass? Kind of would make sense that only an actual wizard could write their own grimoires, etc. Or why not just banish grimoires from multiclass entirely?

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I kinda agree about the sub classes to be fair. Like the wizard sub classes probably work better with a multiclass character. For single class it's a bit restrictive. I think they should probably have added more spells.

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I've never mained a wizard in Pillars, as I loved Aloth in 1. However, in Deadfire, I find the wizard a bit frustrating. The Grimoires annoy me as they are mostly the same, and it's hard to decide what spells he should learn, so basically it's a case of finding the Grimoire/s that has/have the most unique spells in, and then rerolling him around that/them while trying to remember which spells are in them. I'm lugging around a ton of grimoires that have like 3-4 different spells in them each but only use 2. I also don't like the layout of the spell books - it was better in 1. If this was done to prevent multicalss wizards from being op, maybe they should have just applied it when the wizard was actually multiclass? Kind of would make sense that only an actual wizard could write their own grimoires, etc. Or why not just banish grimoires from multiclass entirely?

It was done to encourage grimoir switching and also because every other castet class got a limitation when it came to what spells they could access. Wizards still have more spells and the ability to swap out some of them. I think it was just a bit too much of an advantage to have the old system for wizards now that it's per encounter casting.

 

Though to be fair there was also talk of specialised grimoires with certain attributes but so far I've only found about three different ones and most are just the same one over and over again.

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I've never mained a wizard in Pillars, as I loved Aloth in 1. However, in Deadfire, I find the wizard a bit frustrating. The Grimoires annoy me as they are mostly the same, and it's hard to decide what spells he should learn, so basically it's a case of finding the Grimoire/s that has/have the most unique spells in, and then rerolling him around that/them while trying to remember which spells are in them. I'm lugging around a ton of grimoires that have like 3-4 different spells in them each but only use 2. I also don't like the layout of the spell books - it was better in 1. If this was done to prevent multicalss wizards from being op, maybe they should have just applied it when the wizard was actually multiclass? Kind of would make sense that only an actual wizard could write their own grimoires, etc. Or why not just banish grimoires from multiclass entirely?

It was done to encourage grimoir switching and also because every other castet class got a limitation when it came to what spells they could access. Wizards still have more spells and the ability to swap out some of them. I think it was just a bit too much of an advantage to have the old system for wizards now that it's per encounter casting.

 

Though to be fair there was also talk of specialised grimoires with certain attributes but so far I've only found about three different ones and most are just the same one over and over again.

 

Yeah I know it was done to encourage switching, but it would make more sense to me if there were default spells and grimoire spells, and not this hideous mishmash of variations of a theme that's just really confusing. I've found one grimoire with special attributes so far.

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A few levels is an understatement.  They start becoming more than one of the least useful classes at level 7.  The main issue is that the majority of the spell rank 1-2 spells are complete garbage.

Level 1:

Minoletta’s Minor Missle - level 12 and still using it. Good spell against anyone vonourable to crush damage.

Eldritch Aim - useful sell buff if you want or land important spells (not using it in current playthrough. Gave some accuracy bonus items and Aloth doesn’t miss when targeting the right defences). + outside buffs

Chill Fog - just as good as in PoE1

Thirst of Tattered Veil - probably my favourite interrupt. Quick, reliable, long range. Crafted bunch of scrolls and gave it to couple of other characters.

Fan of Flames - pretty strong AOE for anyone vonourable. With less choke points it’s easier to move your wizard to the position where he can actually use it without hurting your own.

Level2

Necrotic Lance - great single character damage

Combusting wounds

Etc.

Don’t feel like writing out more. There are plenty of good wizard spells even early on. It takes couple levels before player gets into real fights. For early fights spell selection is absolutely sufficient.

 

 

Meanwhile, you could just be using a ranged physical multiclass and contributing 10x more to any given fight.  But yeah, sure, those are some of the creamiest Wizard spells on the low tier crap pile.  I also mentioned number of casts, which are not enough.  You aren't going to be doing much of anything with 1-2 missiles, or 1 Eldritch Aim + 1 other tier 1 spell and 2x tier 2 spells.  Really, the only low level spell that's worth casting early is Chill Fog.  Missle is fine later when you have more casts, or you simply can't reliably cast Chill Fog.  Anything else is really wasting limited casts.

Edited by Sanctuary
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Wizard subclasses are kind of crappy, but Wizard base class is awesome.

 

One of the most powerful single classes, and one of the most powerful builds overall.

 

It just takes a few levels to get powerful, they have a weak start like most CPRGs.  

 

It's not really kind of crappy. Wizard subclasses are garbage. Not sure what the devs were thinking there.

 

 

 

Wizard subclasses are kind of crappy, but Wizard base class is awesome.

 

One of the most powerful single classes, and one of the most powerful builds overall.

 

It just takes a few levels to get powerful, they have a weak start like most CPRGs.  

 

A few levels is an understatement.  They start becoming more than one of the least useful classes at level 7.  The main issue is that the majority of the spell rank 1-2 spells are complete garbage.  Even once you have access to the third tier, you still don't have enough casts to make any real difference unless you cheese your way through the game by using empower to return points and then rest after every fight...

 

It takes a whole lot of levels before they have enough casts to do anything other than Chill Fog (which is actually ridiculously good, but at the same time not something that can be cast every fight).

 

 

The slicken nerf hurt my soul. :(

 

 

What nerf? Slicken is so OP is PoE2 because it reapply every few seconds instead of just happening once. I was keeping bosses permanently proned with slicken it was hilarious.

 

They just need to buff weapon conjuration and offensive self-buff type. That one got gutted with huge cast time and mediocre damage that can't really abuse empower.

Edited by Zeitzbach

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I love the new wizards. Have you had the chance to throw a fireball yet?

 

Dude... Felt like I was punching a hole in my own ship.

 

The resource system makes each cast count and when the spells do hit, they hit hard. I have never felt this satisfied with a spellcast in a game before.

 

The restriction to spells in grimoires is a welcome change. Since wizards don't need to pre-cast/prepare spells in poe lore like in dnd, there was really no point to the oversized paperweights.

 

The new mechanical change bolsters the need for wizards to carry around these books and also makes book hunting a really fun exercise.

 

I do think that it would have been awesome if there were some way to customize/commission a grimoire and if there is in game, please don't tell me ;)

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Meanwhile, you could just be using a ranged physical multiclass and contributing 10x more to any given fight.  But yeah, sure, those are some of the creamiest Wizard spells on the low tier crap pile.  I also mentioned number of casts, which are not enough.  You aren't going to be doing much of anything with 1-2 missiles, or 1 Eldritch Aim + 1 other tier 1 spell and 2x tier 2 spells.  Really, the only low level spell that's worth casting early is Chill Fog.  Missle is fine later when you have more casts, or you simply can't reliably cast Chill Fog.  Anything else is really wasting limited casts.

 

 

T1 has chill fog and Slicken.

T2 is bleh and I barely use it.

T3 has Fireball for easy AoE comp which is the most effective one atm. Later, use it for Del Alacrity because the +5 dex speed still speed up how fast you cast/recover and it doesn't take long.

 

====

 

T4 has frozen fireball from a certain grimoire you can acquire really early. Sure the cast time is long but you can retarget and it has almost twice the range of normal fireball. Paralysis on hit. The moment I got this, the game lost all possible mid-game challenge even if you are undergear.

T5 is mediocre. Only really use it for Blast of Frost for quick AoE finisher if they somehow survive the fireball.

T6 has Gaze and Deathring. Death ring is insane in this one because it's a giant Foe AoE that can also finish off high DR but low health target with no effort.

T7 has Tayn Chaotic orb and with enemies using Unbending, Wall of Draining

T8 has Wilting Wind. It's a raw damage version of hailstorm which is also busted.

T9 has Missile Salvo and Meteor.

 

I don't see how they are weak. Only T2 is really bad but you get through that really fast since the game quickly boost you to like level 7 in only a few hour. Salvo has the highest DPS potential in the game that it took 70% of the tankiest boss fight health in one spell on Aloth who has pisspoor might.

 

And if you don't have enough cast, then empower yourself for +1 to all tier casting resource. Nothing should survive you throwing 1 or 2 fireball in the early game so wizard early is nowhere near that bad.

 

Edit: Also, if you really want to break the game, just give the Wizard some kind of legendary gear early (you cna easily grab a legendary weapon from Crookspur stealing). This gives them a major accuracy boost to their spells. You can be throwing empowered crit fireball 2-3 hours into the game.

Edited by Zeitzbach
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I've not played more than 2½ hours due to the fact I want my Eder to be right (he has fatih due to import bug) but in those 2½ hours my Wizard was op even from the get go.

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Also we seems to forget that weapon got a major buff for classes like Wizard. Scepter has bouncing projectile and rod modal comes with blast if you need more AoE. Both of them deal good damage now and Wand is the only weak one. In the early game, Wizard can just blow Chillfog/slicken, quick deflection buff from T2 spells and just shoot scepter/wand and still keep up with at least 70% of the auto-dps compared to other classes.

Edited by Zeitzbach

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Meanwhile, you could just be using a ranged physical multiclass and contributing 10x more to any given fight.  But yeah, sure, those are some of the creamiest Wizard spells on the low tier crap pile.  I also mentioned number of casts, which are not enough.  You aren't going to be doing much of anything with 1-2 missiles, or 1 Eldritch Aim + 1 other tier 1 spell and 2x tier 2 spells.  Really, the only low level spell that's worth casting early is Chill Fog.  Missle is fine later when you have more casts, or you simply can't reliably cast Chill Fog.  Anything else is really wasting limited casts.

 

 

T1 has chill fog and Slicken.

T2 is bleh and I barely use it.

T3 has Fireball for easy AoE comp which is the most effective one atm. Later, use it for Del Alacrity because the +5 dex speed still speed up how fast you cast/recover and it doesn't take long.

 

====

 

T4 has frozen fireball from a certain grimoire you can acquire really early. Sure the cast time is long but you can retarget and it has almost twice the range of normal fireball. Paralysis on hit. The moment I got this, the game lost all possible mid-game challenge even if you are undergear.

T5 is mediocre. Only really use it for Blast of Frost for quick AoE finisher if they somehow survive the fireball.

T6 has Gaze and Deathring. Death ring is insane in this one because it's a giant Foe AoE that can also finish off high DR but low health target with no effort.

T7 has Tayn Chaotic orb and with enemies using Unbending, Wall of Draining

T8 has Wilting Wind. It's a raw damage version of hailstorm which is also busted.

T9 has Missile Salvo and Meteor.

 

I don't see how they are weak. Only T2 is really bad but you get through that really fast since the game quickly boost you to like level 7 in only a few hour. Salvo has the highest DPS potential in the game that it took 70% of the tankiest boss fight health in one spell on Aloth who has pisspoor might.

 

And if you don't have enough cast, then empower yourself for +1 to all tier casting resource. Nothing should survive you throwing 1 or 2 fireball in the early game so wizard early is nowhere near that bad.

 

Edit: Also, if you really want to break the game, just give the Wizard some kind of legendary gear early (you cna easily grab a legendary weapon from Crookspur stealing). This gives them a major accuracy boost to their spells. You can be throwing empowered crit fireball 2-3 hours into the game.

 

 

Thanks, but I don't know why you decided to list all of the spell tiers, when my first post was talking about how Wizards in general are one of the worst classes up until level 7.  Then they start becoming tied with single class Rangers.  Only mid, to mid-late do they start to pull their own weight and then later screen wipe kings, (which isn't really a big deal with so many other screen wipes from other classes).  The transition from zero to hero is not a smooth one at all in this game.  Offensive casters generally start out weaker in these types of games and then become stronger late game, but it's really exaggerated here.

 

I already covered empower too...

Edited by Sanctuary

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I'd say wizards feel somewhat bland, but decently powerful. Low-mid level i've had some issues with prolonged fights even with empowering for resources.

 

As for grims... not sure if it counts as a spoiler so i'll ommit the exact bonus, but i've bought one from a vendor that... kinda discourages switching (due to the nature of the bonus). As an evoker i already had few reasons to switch... after getting it i pretty much gave up switching. (name was Grimoire of Vaporous Wizardry i think?)

 

Not too happy about the subclasses though. Really limiting for minor bonuses (though i only have exp with Evoker).

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Meanwhile, you could just be using a ranged physical multiclass and contributing 10x more to any given fight.  But yeah, sure, those are some of the creamiest Wizard spells on the low tier crap pile.  I also mentioned number of casts, which are not enough.  You aren't going to be doing much of anything with 1-2 missiles, or 1 Eldritch Aim + 1 other tier 1 spell and 2x tier 2 spells.  Really, the only low level spell that's worth casting early is Chill Fog.  Missle is fine later when you have more casts, or you simply can't reliably cast Chill Fog.  Anything else is really wasting limited casts.

 

 

T1 has chill fog and Slicken.

T2 is bleh and I barely use it.

T3 has Fireball for easy AoE comp which is the most effective one atm. Later, use it for Del Alacrity because the +5 dex speed still speed up how fast you cast/recover and it doesn't take long.

 

====

 

T4 has frozen fireball from a certain grimoire you can acquire really early. Sure the cast time is long but you can retarget and it has almost twice the range of normal fireball. Paralysis on hit. The moment I got this, the game lost all possible mid-game challenge even if you are undergear.

T5 is mediocre. Only really use it for Blast of Frost for quick AoE finisher if they somehow survive the fireball.

T6 has Gaze and Deathring. Death ring is insane in this one because it's a giant Foe AoE that can also finish off high DR but low health target with no effort.

T7 has Tayn Chaotic orb and with enemies using Unbending, Wall of Draining

T8 has Wilting Wind. It's a raw damage version of hailstorm which is also busted.

T9 has Missile Salvo and Meteor.

 

I don't see how they are weak. Only T2 is really bad but you get through that really fast since the game quickly boost you to like level 7 in only a few hour. Salvo has the highest DPS potential in the game that it took 70% of the tankiest boss fight health in one spell on Aloth who has pisspoor might.

 

And if you don't have enough cast, then empower yourself for +1 to all tier casting resource. Nothing should survive you throwing 1 or 2 fireball in the early game so wizard early is nowhere near that bad.

 

Edit: Also, if you really want to break the game, just give the Wizard some kind of legendary gear early (you cna easily grab a legendary weapon from Crookspur stealing). This gives them a major accuracy boost to their spells. You can be throwing empowered crit fireball 2-3 hours into the game.

 

 

Might want to read my first post in this thread...

 

 

Which is why I brought up other useful spells beside Chill fog and bolded that just for you and the rest for other who think wizards are still weak. Slicken is so busted because it knocks people prone for a few seconds and also reproc every few seconds. It's a -10- seconds prone if you have enough accuracy and the enemy don't have tons of fortitude so they flop the moment they get up. The only thing you're really correct about is that T2 is rather trash.

 

So when you consider the amount of utility they already have from level 1, they aren't weak. And you can't really just call "Resting after a fight" cheesing. It's part of the game and you are expected to go into a fight fully buffed. If making sure you are in the best condition is cheesing then is eating 5 different foods before a boss fight in PoE1 cheesing? Real cheese would involve exploits like luring enemies out of the fight so you can fight a large group 1 by 1. It's even more cheesy to agree to a truce to a fight and start precasting spells right away to give you a massive advantage.

Edited by Zeitzbach

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For those stating that the Wizard has ineffective low-level spells, I am curious what kind of spells you would consider useful? I've found that it's often the low-level spells that are actually the best spells in the game when used correctly. In fact, I remember when I played a Wizard as my main I used to advise people to never underestimate the value of a well-placed low-level spell. 

 

Just a few considerations off the top of my head:

 

Level I Spells:

  • Minoletta's Minor Missiles - Instant cast, does crush and corrode damage making it effective against some of the most common armor types and only gets better as you level
  • Chill Fog - Arguably the best spell in the game. AoE that blinds and does freeze damage in a decent area
  • Spirit Shield - One of the best defensive spells in the game. Instant cast, provides blanket protection against all damage types and has no recovery time, provides protection against interrupts, long duration
  • Thrust of Tattered Veils - Instant cast near guaranteed interrupt with solid range and veil piercing
Level II Spells:
  • Curse of Blackened Sight - Targets enemies only, applies blinded. Basically a Chill Fog for close quarters combat
  • Necrotic Lance - An extremely hard hitting spell that does corrode damage with solid penetration
  • Arcane Veil - Instant cast +50 Deflection, protection against interrupts, no recovery time, long duration
Level III Spells:
  • Llengrath's Displaced Image - Instant cast, no recovery, +25 Deflection, +20 Reflex, changes hits to grazes, long duration
  • Arduous Delay of Motion - Makes most fights extremely one-sided by making enemies useless, only targets enemies
  • Expose Vulnerabilities - Targets only enemies, makes it easier to hit enemies and score crits, increases damage you deal
  • Kalakoth's Minor Blights - Combine this with Pull of Eora (level IV) and you can easily kill an entire group of enemies
  • Fireball - See above, plus...it's a fireball
I could go on to each level but these are just the first three levels of spells and these are just spells for pure casters, not even going into the number of amazing spells for multiclass builds like spellblades and battlemages.
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Thanks, but I don't know why you decided to list all of the spell tiers, when my first post was talking about how Wizards in general are one of the worst classes up until level 7.  Then they start becoming tied with single class Rangers.  Only mid, to mid-late do they start to pull their own weight and then later screen wipe kings, (which isn't really a big deal with so many other screen wipes from other classes).  The transition from zero to hero is not a smooth one at all in this game.  Offensive casters generally start out weaker in these types of games and then become stronger late game, but it's really exaggerated here.

 

I already covered empower too...

 

 

WIth Blessings of Bereth you can start with main char wizard at level 4, extra gold,+2 all stats and vendor that sells gloves with +2 power level to evocation spells in Port Maje. Mix that with Infuse with Vital Essence Nature Godlike for another +2 power levels and you are probably highest damage dealer at level 4. Chillfog ticking for 37 damage in big aoe that also blinds? I would understand if you called that imbalanced but weak or worst? Nah, you just haven't found enough game breaking **** that make wizard strong. I just hinted you one above. I'm sure there are more.

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Meanwhile, you could just be using a ranged physical multiclass and contributing 10x more to any given fight.  But yeah, sure, those are some of the creamiest Wizard spells on the low tier crap pile.  I also mentioned number of casts, which are not enough.  You aren't going to be doing much of anything with 1-2 missiles, or 1 Eldritch Aim + 1 other tier 1 spell and 2x tier 2 spells.  Really, the only low level spell that's worth casting early is Chill Fog.  Missle is fine later when you have more casts, or you simply can't reliably cast Chill Fog.  Anything else is really wasting limited casts.

That’s assuming your ranged physical multiclass can go through everyones armor and deflection isn’t always the easiest defence to overcome. Maybe you are better in stacking accuracy than I am, but when I fight an enemy where my physical characters have 30%to hit, spellcasters tend to have plenty of ways to overcome it.

 

Regarding the comment that you won’t do much with 1-2 missiles. It depend what you mean by do. It’s a pretty good burst damage. It won’t one shot enemies, like empowered more powerful version of wizards, but it will do a lot, as long as enemy isn’t resistant to crush damage. Still, physical ranged characters won’t hit all the enemies at once for 60+ damage each. I would say the biggest advantage of wizards if flexibility. Like many others I am not in love with specialisations, though I admit I played with them in beta only. They seem to support only very specific builds - which is not horrible I suppose, just not as exciting as other classes.


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Physical damage character are actually way weaker than caster in this game because of how their damage scale. Magic scale up by level and continue to do so even more with empowered. Unless you have an exceptional or superb gear at level 5-6, you will deal roughly the same damage as the casters using spell and later, get completely overshadowed by them because you no longer have stuff like "+20% Corrode damage" enchantment on everything you use.

 

You have to rely on few buggy/broken talent for physical damage to be really busted, like that one monk dealing infinite amount of damage as long as there's something to bounce to.

Edited by Zeitzbach

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Aloth is pretty useless with his current build as wizard as he only has perception 12, so he NEVER hits with spells.

I appreciate this doesn't help the OP at all but I turned Aloth in to a fighter mage and I'm absolutely loving it. I have him dual wielding with a whole load of defensive spells to make him virtually impossible to hit.

 

Think it's a great class to multi with a melee dps. Not sure about on its first own mind.

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