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Aright, so Woedica's story about being "the Queen of gods" seems to have been retconned. That's disappointing.

How so?

 

I never went pro Woedica, but I thought she was always the queen *that was. *

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Aright, so Woedica's story about being "the Queen of gods" seems to have been retconned. That's disappointing.

How so?

 

I never went pro Woedica, but I thought she was always the queen *that was. *

 

 

Iovara says in her dialogue in PoE 1 that Woedica was the "leader" of the gods, but she was cast down. Eothas in PoE 2 says that this story was fabricated. Unless, you want to propose an alternative interpretation, or introduce a unreliable narrative, I think it's a retcon.

Edited by etno
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or introduce a unreliable narrative, I think it's a retcon.

Unreliable Narrative is definitely the way to go, for two very important reasons.

 

1) The gods seem to see everything through the lens of their portfolio. Most of them are unaware or dismissive of opinions that do not fit within their portfolios, so it makes perfect sense for them to interpret the events that happen through those narrow lenses. Everything Eothas says is through the lens of Eothas and how he sees the world. Another god would have a different perspective.

 

2) Most of the gods are not very smart. Berath seems like the most intelligent, or at least able to see multiple sides of a discussion, but even gods like Abydon and Magran seem... intelligent but not wise. As for the rest of the gods, you outright trick Rymrgand and Skaen, Hylea doesn’t realize the dragon egg in her temple can represent new life and birth until you point it out to her, and Ondra makes several mistakes.

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Something I found really interesting was the description in the soulbound weapon Marux Amanth: 

This bronze blade, the length of your forearm and significantly sharper, doesn't seem at all tarnished or dulled by its age. A vein of adra runs its length, from the pommel through the grip and almost to the tip. It pulses faintly.

You located this dagger in the depths of Poko Kahara, where the murals suggested it was a sacrificial tool of ancient Engwith. It whispers its name to you.

"The Dead Soul."

Caima accepts what comes next. They all do, of course - to an extent. Caima, though, she truly believes. A thousand thousand horrors fill this world, wonderful and terrible. Only Engwith remains steadfast against the storm. Only Engwith meets madness with reason.

Only Engwith, Caima whispers, as the knife falls.

Koisos understands the process. Incision and excision, nothing simpler. Growth without guidance has for too long defined this wilderness. The world requires cultivation. Do not stare numbly into the darkness. Strike a light.

The instrument warms, ready. The device wakes. The gardener signals.

The knife falls.

It is finished. They have risen, birthed into being by our worthy sacrifices, idols made real. Now comes our true test, which is nothing less than total supplication before our creations. None must know of our guiding hand in their genesis. To that end, more blood will be spilled.


tl;dr: When the Engwithans made the gods (and the Wheel?) they decided to hide the truth from them. Because of their perverse desire to be ruled by Real Gods they decided to create this elaborate fantasy where not even the gods could know that they were created by kith. You can sorta see this in the way Thaos shows deference to Woedica (?) when she was created in Sun in Shadow. And Eothas even mentions that the gods were surprised when they discovered the truth of their origin. 

I imagine Woedica did not like realizing that she was a simulacrum and not a genuine Real God. Rymrgand also seems to believe himself to be more than a construct. He really seems to believe himself to be the God of Entropy and not just a frost-covered bull made to frighten children. I'm curious to see if the Beast of Winter DLC will address his hubris.

 

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Wrt Woedica and her role as queen of the gods, the PoE lore book says:

 

 

Woedica is usually depicted with burned and withered skin, having been cast from her rightful seat by war and burned in Magran’s fire . . . though she always keeps her dignity and plots her (rightful) revenge. Some stories suggest that she may once have claimed rulership over some or all of the gods, but if this is true, then she was cast down in the far distant past.

 

So those are stories, the truth of which is debatable and unproven. In the first game, Iovara tells you what she's heard; she wasn't there back in said far distant past, so she wouldn't know any better than what she was told, what she overheard, or what she read—all of which may or may not be true. In Deadfire, no gods appear to treat Woedica with any special deference and she never makes any claims as to her past status of ruler of the gods.

 

It is a common misconception in fiction to assume that something's true just because a character says it. A character might as well be willfully participating in a campaign of misinformation (props if you get the quote), or relaying their knowledge or point of view (which may or may not be based on factual evidence.) Thaos may be telling you the truth, or what he thinks is best said to you (he's the kind of manipulative schemer to make even Skaen envious); Iovara tells you what she thinks is true. Even Eothas's revelation may not necessarily be entirely true, although it appears to be the most likely (at least based on how Woedica and the other gods behave.)

 

Giving the souls to Woedica could have been but yet another of Thaos's schemes. Perhaps he wanted to make those old stories true, and Woedica clearly wouldn't object. That doesn't mean she used to rule over the others in the past.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses

 

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The entire Gods squabbling arc is so cringey I don't know what they were thinking.

 

At one pt, the fish lady says "Yeah we can't do anything because we can't get along." I physically cringed. Are these Gods or children? The passing suggestion of throwing a moon down makes...no sense whatsoever. You are stuck squabbling, exacting no influence whatsoever on Eothos plans, having the Watcher do your dirty work, yet you suggest throwing down a planet? Pft. It's like a wimpy guy telling you he is tough. Even after Eothos tells you his plan to expose the Gods, they are still powerless. And showing them took away their luster. Fail Obsidian, major epic fail!

Edited by Verde
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The entire Gods squabbling arc is so cringey I don't know what they were thinking.

 

At one pt, the fish lady says "Yeah we can't do anything because we can't get along." I physically cringed. Are these Gods or children? The passing suggestion of throwing a moon down makes...no sense whatsoever. You are stuck squabbling, exacting no influence whatsoever on Eothos plans, having the Watcher do your dirty work, yet you suggest throwing down a planet? Pft. It's like a wimpy guy telling you he is tough. Even after Eothos tells you his plan to expose the Gods, they are still powerless. And showing them took away their luster. Fail Obsidian, major epic fail!

 

In plenty of lore gods are extremely childish. Having vast amounts of power and no accountability doesn't lead to maturity.

 

And I never got the impression the gods were supposed to be lustrous. That was the whole point of the reveal in POE1 was showing they were people with far more powers than most (and were still reliant on humans to do their dirty work.)

Edited by Ryz009
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  • 2 weeks later...

The truth may lie somewhere in between. Woedica definitely seems the kind to just elect herself as 'Queen of the Gods' and start throwing about orders. And the other gods might actually have sortof just slyly ignored the commands, or maybe even played along for a while, until she pissed them off and Magran smacked her down. It could have even been that Woedica *was* a Queen chosen by the Engwithans but, just like a mortal queen, had no special powers beyond the mandate of authority against other Gods. The whole 'everybody bleeds' idea where being a queen won't prevent someone from beheading you in a revolt. And the revolution that defeated her may have made her weaker and broken the crown - the symbol of her mandate from the Engwithans. Thaos may have been seeking to restore her damaged features, and the crown, using those souls. Which may not have given her any additional power *over* the gods but may have reestablished her divine mandate symbolism and given her some ephemeral bargaining power back that she though she lost. I imagine even all the Hollowborn souls wouldn't necessarily be enough to give a massive boost to the Gods by now.

Edited by Rheios
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