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ArnoldRimmer

Why was the game realeased when it has so many bugs?

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Arrange deliberate tests before release = spend money.

Sell the "finished" game to those who will provide the company with bug reports = earn money.

Mmmm the level of bugs in this game from the second I installed it however, it kinda feels like NO QA was done at all. SOOOOO many of the bugs I encountered before I was forced to stop playing due to glitches, crashes, and rep/companion bugs should have been EASILY picked up if even the devs themselves had played their own game!!

 

These aren't hidden bugs! My partner and I are still unable to install the "dlc" that came with release, because every time we try to install the game crashes on the startup screen. The POE:1 saves never carry over properly in very obvious ways from the start. The fact that Eder and Aloth seem to just flip a coin to decide whether they are going to be in the game or not, and how they will behave ala Jekyl and Hyde. I haven't even bothered mentioning these on the bug threads, because every single one of them have been mentioned a hundred times before I even downloaded the game. It's impossible for most players NOT to notice at least a couple of these within the first few hours.

 

It doesn't take money to identify a lot of these issues. They are so blatantly "there" that any one of the devs taking a beta copy home to the neighbors "non obsidian" computer and played it for an hour to two could have tripped over a dozen of them in the first act. They would have been statistical unicorns to not have seen at least a few of the major bugs that have come up over and over again since launch.

Edited by Noctoi

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have been mentioned a hundred times before I even downloaded the game. It's impossible for most players NOT to notice at least a couple of these within the first few hours. 

No, it most certainly is not "impossible". Supposedly "hundreds" of bug reports? *TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE* bought this game. *THOUSANDS* are playing it *RIGHT NOW*. Even of hundreds of people experience those exact bugs, that's a *tiny fraction* of people.

 

Human beings are *crap* at understanding ratios and large numbers.

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If you don't import, the game is perfectly playable, even with import it is. The reputation and conversation bugs can be annoying but they are not game-breaking.

At least we don't have dragons flying backwards and shooting fire out of their rear end. Not that I didn't enjoy it mind you.

Edited by Aridea
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Emissary Tar: At last, someone who looks like they could be of some assistance! The assorted boobs and dimwits around here have been of very little help.
 
Charname: I’m afraid you have mistaken us for someone else. I’m Dimwit, this is my good friend Boob, and behind me you’ll find Brainless and Moron. How do you do? 
 

 

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If you don't import, the game is perfectly playable, even with import it is. The reputation and conversation bugs can be annoying but they are not game-breaking.

At least we don't have dragons flying backwards and shooting fire out of their rear end. Not that I didn't enjoy it mind you.

 

Hey, Skyrim doesn't have bugs! It has features.

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If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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have been mentioned a hundred times before I even downloaded the game. It's impossible for most players NOT to notice at least a couple of these within the first few hours. 

No, it most certainly is not "impossible". Supposedly "hundreds" of bug reports? *TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE* bought this game. *THOUSANDS* are playing it *RIGHT NOW*. Even of hundreds of people experience those exact bugs, that's a *tiny fraction* of people.

 

Human beings are *crap* at understanding ratios and large numbers.

 

What world do you live in where people report bugs?  The vast, vast majority of people will never even think to post about a bug, they will just look up a solution or give up immediately.

 

And yes, it's impossible if you played before the first patch to not run into a bug because everyone's import/history was bugged.  The very first feature of the game was completely non-functional until almost 2 weeks after the launch of the game.  Everyone who played the game during that time encountered this bug.  Now take a look at how many people played the game during that time, and look at how many times that bug was reported, and you'll see that a very very minuscule percentage of players actually report bugs.

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have been mentioned a hundred times before I even downloaded the game. It's impossible for most players NOT to notice at least a couple of these within the first few hours. 

No, it most certainly is not "impossible". Supposedly "hundreds" of bug reports? *TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE* bought this game. *THOUSANDS* are playing it *RIGHT NOW*. Even of hundreds of people experience those exact bugs, that's a *tiny fraction* of people.

 

Human beings are *crap* at understanding ratios and large numbers.

 

What world do you live in where people report bugs?  The vast, vast majority of people will never even think to post about a bug, they will just look up a solution or give up immediately.

 

And yes, it's impossible if you played before the first patch to not run into a bug because everyone's import/history was bugged.  The very first feature of the game was completely non-functional until almost 2 weeks after the launch of the game.  Everyone who played the game during that time encountered this bug.  Now take a look at how many people played the game during that time, and look at how many times that bug was reported, and you'll see that a very very minuscule percentage of players actually report bugs.

 

Yeah, but he didn't just bitch about the import/export bug. He was talking about glitches, crashes, being unable to install the DLC, etc. Those bugs are *NOT* universal and there is *NO* reason to claim that "most people" or even a significant portion of people experienced those bugs.

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All things considered, there's not that many bugs. Compared to a lot of other games in the genre, this is actually a really polished release. That said, the import reactivity bugs are disproportionately disappointing when compared to other bugs as they hurt player investment a lot.

 

deadfire has many import bugs and custom history bugs... to a somewhat inexplicable degree.  import/history bugs ain't like the weird problem with sea trolls being immune to the fire damage from pillar of holy fire. regeneration nullifies fire damage? am understanding how, perhaps, some combination o' factors led to an unforeseen mechanics bug or two... or even a hundred.  the import stuff is different 'cause is many import and custom history flags which is simple marked wrong.  night market eder v. mayor eder were an obvious example o' all too frequent oversight. currently, our default custom history for a new character is entitled mirror universe.  to get desired results from a history, our best option is to custom create a history, and all too often our choices must be star trek mirror universe choices. this kinda "bug," sadly, is due to lack o' diligence. no excuse.

 

as for mechanics bugs, given how much more complex is deadfire than poe, particular with multiclassing and 20 leveling opportunities, am not shocked, dismayed or appalled by deadfire bugginess.  yeah, is more than a few exploits which has been known since beta release 1 which is still unaddressed, but such stuff ain't bugs. also, is not exact a high bar standard, but compared to poe, deadfire is relative stable.  there were a few game killing poe bugs such as the reckless assault stacking bug which took months too fix.  were also loads o' minor poe quest bugs.  deadfire is indeed buggy mechanically and also buggy insofar as quest resolutions is concerned, but aside from import/history issues (which were not a possible failing for poe) deadfire is relative stable.

 

again, am not suggesting deadfire deserves awards for being a bugless release.  contrary. deadfire is the kinda hot mess we expected it to be, which is exact why we kept pushing for a more expansive beta testing.  nevertheless, relative to past obsidian releases and poe in particular, deadfire is average buggy at worst. 

 

deadfire is what we thought it would be.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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Hey, Skyrim doesn't have bugs! It has features.

 

I wish more games had these features, they were hysterical.


Emissary Tar: At last, someone who looks like they could be of some assistance! The assorted boobs and dimwits around here have been of very little help.
 
Charname: I’m afraid you have mistaken us for someone else. I’m Dimwit, this is my good friend Boob, and behind me you’ll find Brainless and Moron. How do you do? 
 

 

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Tfw you are Todd Howard, rerelease a seven year old game with vanilla bugs, watch other studios get crap for buggy releases.

 

fa0.jpg

 

Not defending Obs btw they need more QA testing but then every rpg developer does these days.

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All things considered, there's not that many bugs. Compared to a lot of other games in the genre, this is actually a really polished release. That said, the import reactivity bugs are disproportionately disappointing when compared to other bugs as they hurt player investment a lot.

 

 

Yeah, that's fair.

 

This is probably the least buggy-at-release RPG I've played in the past few years -- DOS 2 and Kingdom Come deliverance were both worse, KCD *much* worse -- but the bugs in the import process are particularly stingy.

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have been mentioned a hundred times before I even downloaded the game. It's impossible for most players NOT to notice at least a couple of these within the first few hours.

 

No, it most certainly is not "impossible". Supposedly "hundreds" of bug reports? *TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE* bought this game. *THOUSANDS* are playing it *RIGHT NOW*. Even of hundreds of people experience those exact bugs, that's a *tiny fraction* of people.

Human beings are *crap* at understanding ratios and large numbers.

Ooh google “colloquialism” or “sarcasm” or “exaggeration for emphasis”... like, *literally* everyone knows that we generalise and exaggerate for emphasis... :p Edited by Noctoi
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have been mentioned a hundred times before I even downloaded the game. It's impossible for most players NOT to notice at least a couple of these within the first few hours.

 

No, it most certainly is not "impossible". Supposedly "hundreds" of bug reports? *TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE* bought this game. *THOUSANDS* are playing it *RIGHT NOW*. Even of hundreds of people experience those exact bugs, that's a *tiny fraction* of people.

Human beings are *crap* at understanding ratios and large numbers.

What world do you live in where people report bugs?  The vast, vast majority of people will never even think to post about a bug, they will just look up a solution or give up immediately.

 

And yes, it's impossible if you played before the first patch to not run into a bug because everyone's import/history was bugged.  The very first feature of the game was completely non-functional until almost 2 weeks after the launch of the game.  Everyone who played the game during that time encountered this bug.  Now take a look at how many people played the game during that time, and look at how many times that bug was reported, and you'll see that a very very minuscule percentage of players actually report bugs.

Yeah, but he didn't just bitch about the import/export bug. He was talking about glitches, crashes, being unable to install the DLC, etc. Those bugs are *NOT* universal and there is *NO* reason to claim that "most people" or even a significant portion of people experienced those bugs.

SHE wasn’t “bitching” about anything... she was making a comment about the likelihood of improving QA by tasking game development staff with pre-release beta testing and quality control.

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have been mentioned a hundred times before I even downloaded the game. It's impossible for most players NOT to notice at least a couple of these within the first few hours.

No, it most certainly is not "impossible". Supposedly "hundreds" of bug reports? *TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE* bought this game. *THOUSANDS* are playing it *RIGHT NOW*. Even of hundreds of people experience those exact bugs, that's a *tiny fraction* of people.

Human beings are *crap* at understanding ratios and large numbers.

What world do you live in where people report bugs?  The vast, vast majority of people will never even think to post about a bug, they will just look up a solution or give up immediately.

 

And yes, it's impossible if you played before the first patch to not run into a bug because everyone's import/history was bugged.  The very first feature of the game was completely non-functional until almost 2 weeks after the launch of the game.  Everyone who played the game during that time encountered this bug.  Now take a look at how many people played the game during that time, and look at how many times that bug was reported, and you'll see that a very very minuscule percentage of players actually report bugs.

Yeah, but he didn't just bitch about the import/export bug. He was talking about glitches, crashes, being unable to install the DLC, etc. Those bugs are *NOT* universal and there is *NO* reason to claim that "most people" or even a significant portion of people experienced those bugs.

SHE wasn’t “bitching” about anything... she was making a comment about the likelihood of improving QA by tasking game development staff with pre-release beta testing and quality control.

 

1) Sorry, I apologize for assuming your gender.

 

2) You and I have different definitions of "bitching". You were clearly complaining about the quantity of bugs, and attributing the experience of these bugs to large numbers of players, which is what I was *specifically* noting is not a valid statement.

Edited by Katarack21
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Tfw you are Todd Howard, rerelease a seven year old game with vanilla bugs, watch other studios get crap for buggy releases.

 

fa0.jpg

 

Not defending Obs btw they need more QA testing but then every rpg developer does these days.

 

 

tumblr_okphc04ecW1rk2l45o1_r1_400.gif

 

And thats one of the best-selling games of all time.

 

Every rpg developer does need more testing. But Deadfire is actually playable. Much drama?

Edited by Aridea
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Emissary Tar: At last, someone who looks like they could be of some assistance! The assorted boobs and dimwits around here have been of very little help.
 
Charname: I’m afraid you have mistaken us for someone else. I’m Dimwit, this is my good friend Boob, and behind me you’ll find Brainless and Moron. How do you do? 
 

 

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Tfw you are Todd Howard, rerelease a seven year old game with vanilla bugs, watch other studios get crap for buggy releases.

 

fa0.jpg

 

Not defending Obs btw they need more QA testing but then every rpg developer does these days.

 

May I remind

 

tumblr_okphc04ecW1rk2l45o1_r1_400.gif

 

Skyrim is one of the best-selling games of all time, and I've experienced bugs in Enhanced edition that I've never got in original. I was unable to progress main quest for the first time in my 7 year experience.

 

Every rpg developer does need more testing. But Deadfire is actually playable. Much drama?

Or Witcher 3- Roach... poor poor special Roach:

 

https://youtu.be/9Ng8vRjFuws

 

https://youtu.be/HG2haOSSqvQ

 

https://youtu.be/UddTUOkFpvM

 

https://youtu.be/4O9E1pH4J9g

 

And let’s not forget Geralt and his buddies...

 

https://youtu.be/Uc6RnI47vTI

 

https://youtu.be/2O-0D7jwMWs

 

https://youtu.be/KpAGtIdANK4

 

Enjoy! :D

Edited by Noctoi
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These examples are idiotic. These are 3d games and examples are about engine bugs where complicated models and world states conflict with each other in a world where player can even carry random stuff and put it on head of NPCs.

 

PoE2 is way simplier than this and it has bugs like picking wrong line in the quest and quest breaks. Or weapons not showing what they do.

 

That's called a rushed release.

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Ugh Geez... everyone fell out of the overly literal and grumpy side of bed today apparently. 

 

I'm pretty sure we all know this is not the same type of game as Skyrim or Witcher 3. 

 

The point is that games (from Tetris or puzzle bobble to Witcher 3) are being released with little to no QA or decent objective beta testing these days. The point was also to illustrate that some bugs are funny as hell...

 

But ya know, I'll take idiotic over overly nitpicky any day. Less stressful that way :p

Edited by Noctoi
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These examples are idiotic. These are 3d games and examples are about engine bugs where complicated models and world states conflict with each other in a world where player can even carry random stuff and put it on head of NPCs.

 

PoE2 is way simplier than this and it has bugs like picking wrong line in the quest and quest breaks. Or weapons not showing what they do.

 

That's called a rushed release.

 

I dunno man, you'd be surprised at how complex games like this are to test. BG2's modding community is still discovering bugfixes.

 

But in general I doubt anyone's arguing that PoE2's bugs aren't bad just because some games have horrible problems with their physics and graphics engines (and also everything else BETHESDA). That would be reductive. But there's nothing wrong with generally commiserating about bugs in games and remembering that Obsidian isn't the worst offender in this area, despite its reputation, in the meantime.

 

Fact is - and it's a bad fact, but a fact nonetheless - good QA is hard to come by these days, for reasons that are complex and very nearly paradoxical. Industry standards are low. /shrug

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If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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The point is that games (from Tetris or puzzle bobble to Witcher 3) are being released with little to no QA or decent objective beta testing these days.

*remembers game from 20 years ago that wiped his harddrive on uninstall*

 

Oh, yeah. That's totally a new thing.

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But ya know, I'll take idiotic over overly nitpicky any day. Less stressful that way :p

 

Yeah, when life seems too bleak I look to gifs of Skyrim bugs, and it immediately turns brighter. :grin:

Edited by Aridea
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Emissary Tar: At last, someone who looks like they could be of some assistance! The assorted boobs and dimwits around here have been of very little help.
 
Charname: I’m afraid you have mistaken us for someone else. I’m Dimwit, this is my good friend Boob, and behind me you’ll find Brainless and Moron. How do you do? 
 

 

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These examples are idiotic. These are 3d games and examples are about engine bugs where complicated models and world states conflict with each other in a world where player can even carry random stuff and put it on head of NPCs.

 

PoE2 is way simplier than this and it has bugs like picking wrong line in the quest and quest breaks. Or weapons not showing what they do.

 

That's called a rushed release.

 

I dunno man, you'd be surprised at how complex games like this are to test. BG2's modding community is still discovering bugfixes.

 

But in general I doubt anyone's arguing that PoE2's bugs aren't bad just because some games have horrible problems with their physics and graphics engines (and also everything else BETHESDA). That would be reductive. But there's nothing wrong with generally commiserating about bugs in games and remembering that Obsidian isn't the worst offender in this area, despite its reputation, in the meantime.

 

Fact is - and it's a bad fact, but a fact nonetheless - good QA is hard to come by these days, for reasons that are complex and very nearly paradoxical. Industry standards are low. /shrug

 

 

 

I don't think it's a matter of industry standards. I don't think I've ever played any RPG that was free of major bugs at release. Certainly every major modern RPG has had extensive bugs at release. That's why the first D:OS game got an Enhanced Edition a year later, and the 2nd one is also getting one a year from now.

 

The root issue is that these games are hyper-complicated -- especially if they're open world -- and it's not possible for them to be bug free at release. A lot of the bugs simply aren't found / documented / reported until you throw a hundred thousand players at them. 

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These examples are idiotic. These are 3d games and examples are about engine bugs where complicated models and world states conflict with each other in a world where player can even carry random stuff and put it on head of NPCs.

 

PoE2 is way simplier than this and it has bugs like picking wrong line in the quest and quest breaks. Or weapons not showing what they do.

 

That's called a rushed release.

I dunno man, you'd be surprised at how complex games like this are to test. BG2's modding community is still discovering bugfixes.

 

But in general I doubt anyone's arguing that PoE2's bugs aren't bad just because some games have horrible problems with their physics and graphics engines (and also everything else BETHESDA). That would be reductive. But there's nothing wrong with generally commiserating about bugs in games and remembering that Obsidian isn't the worst offender in this area, despite its reputation, in the meantime.

 

Fact is - and it's a bad fact, but a fact nonetheless - good QA is hard to come by these days, for reasons that are complex and very nearly paradoxical. Industry standards are low. /shrug

 

I don't think it's a matter of industry standards. I don't think I've ever played any RPG that was free of major bugs at release. Certainly every major modern RPG has had extensive bugs at release. That's why the first D:OS game got an Enhanced Edition a year later, and the 2nd one is also getting one a year from now.

 

The root issue is that these games are hyper-complicated -- especially if they're open world -- and it's not possible for them to be bug free at release. A lot of the bugs simply aren't found / documented / reported until you throw a hundred thousand players at them.

This is true. I'm inclined to think the problem has gotten worse, but that might just be nostalgia talking.

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If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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This is true. I'm inclined to think the problem has gotten worse, but that might just be nostalgia talking.

 

 

 

I think it probably has gotten worse, but the games are also a lot more complicated. I mean, Darklands was buggy as **** when it came out twenty years ago, with gamestopping bugs and all kinds of problems, but you could also fit all of its quests into a ten page word document

 

What has gotten significantly better is post-release patches and support, I suspect because of platforms like Steam that make  ongoing sales of legacy titles a good source of corporate income. What's really changed is that players can now confidently expect that if they wait a month or three **** will get fixed.

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These examples are idiotic. These are 3d games and examples are about engine bugs where complicated models and world states conflict with each other in a world where player can even carry random stuff and put it on head of NPCs.

 

PoE2 is way simplier than this and it has bugs like picking wrong line in the quest and quest breaks. Or weapons not showing what they do.

 

That's called a rushed release.

 

Ok but Bethesda has a lot more money for QA testers than Obsidian, you can't just say "it's a more complicated game to make so it doesn't count" and as I pointed out earlier Bethesda just never fixed many of the bugs in skyrim. Modders had to do it, if they can do it then bethesda can. CDPR is a little different i guess as they were also relatively small, though that isn't the case now.

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