Do I understand this correctly:

- Thanks to the double inversion, several negative modifiers will always have diminishing penalties ( both in absolute and relative numbers).

That means the combination of penalty 1 and 2 will always be less than the sum of 1+2.

I am not sure how to understand this)

The "less" is confusing me ^^

For example there are two hypothetical scenarios unrelated to Deadfire. In one you get [-3] penalty, in another [-5] penalty.

> -5 is less than -3

> but -5 penalty is bigger than -3 penalty

Thus I am unsure if to answer "less" or not.

Let me just provide a few examples instead:

1). Let's say you have 1.0s attack time, 4.0s recovery time, 100dps, and the enemy keeps applying a stackable -20% [action_speed] debuff.

- 0 debuffs: 1.00s + 4.00s = 5.00s (100.00 dps)

- 1 debuffs: 1.25s + 5.00s = 6.25s ( 80.00 dps) (-20.00 dps) (-20.0%) (x0.800)

- 2 debuffs: 1.50s + 6.00s = 7.50s ( 66.66 dps) (-13.33 dps) (-16.6%) (x0.833)

- 3 debuffs: 1.75s + 7.00s = 8.75s ( 57.14 dps) ( -9.52 dps) (-14.2%) (x0.857)

- 4 debuffs: 2.00s + 8.00s =10.00s ( 50.00 dps) ( -7.14 dps) (-12.5%) (x0.875)

2). And in second example, you will have the same 1.0s attack time, 4.0s recovery time, 100dps. But the enemy keeps applying a stackable -40% [action_speed] debuff.

- 0 debuffs: 1.000s + 4.000s = 5.000s (100.00 dps)

- 1 debuffs: 1.666s + 6.666s = 8.333s ( 60.00 dps) (-40.00 dps) (-40.0%) (x0.600)

- 2 debuffs: 2.333s + 9.333s =11.666s ( 42.85 dps) (-17.14 dps) (-28.5%) (x0.714)

Now let's try again, but with [+x% action_time] debuff instead of [-x% action_speed] debuff.

1). You have 1.0s attack time, 4.0s recovery time, 100dps, and the enemy keeps applying a stackable +25% [action_time] debuff.

- 0 debuffs: 1.00s + 4.00s = 5.00s (100.00 dps)

- 1 debuffs: 1.25s + 5.00s = 6.25s ( 80.00 dps) (-20.00 dps) (-20.0%) (x0.800)

- 2 debuffs: 1.50s + 6.00s = 7.50s ( 66.66 dps) (-13.33 dps) (-16.6%) (x0.833)

- 3 debuffs: 1.75s + 7.00s = 8.75s ( 57.14 dps) ( -9.52 dps) (-14.2%) (x0.857)

- 4 debuffs: 2.00s + 8.00s =10.00s ( 50.00 dps) ( -7.14 dps) (-12.5%) (x0.875)

2). You have 1.0s attack time, 4.0s recovery time, 100dps. But the enemy keeps applying a stackable +50% [action_time] debuff.

- 0 debuffs: 1.00s + 4.00s = 5.00s (100.00 dps)

- 1 debuffs: 1.50s + 6.00s = 7.50s ( 66.66 dps) (-33.33 dps) (-33.3%) (x0.666)

- 2 debuffs: 2.00s + 8.00s =10.00s ( 50.00 dps) (-16.66 dps) (-25.0%) (x0.750)

So, As you can see:

- the penalty from two [-20% action_speed] debuffs is less than from one [-40% action_speed] debuff.

- the penalty from n [-20% action_speed] debuffs is the same from n [+25% action_time] debuffs.

- the penalty from two [+25% action_time] debuffs is the same as from [+50% action_time] debuff.

Also, the more and stronger speed_decreasing/time_increasing debuffs you are already afflicted with, the lesser effect a new debuff will have.

- Things go to hell when you combine bonusses and penalties. ( I do not play computer games with a calculator on.)

Even the devs did not understand it. ( See initial version of blunted criticals.)

Kinda yeah)

I do not know how much bonusses you need to compensate a penalty and I am not sure if the above concept ( absolute/relative linear/diminishing returns) changes if you combine bonusses and penalties.

You can use the following mini "lifehack":

- take a look at your maluses

- let's say there is -25% action_speed. This means you can "compensate" for it with +33% action_speed.

- let's say there is +25% action_time. This means you can "compensate" for it with +20% action_speed.

- remove this way all maluses (and bonuses that were used for "compensation")

- and if hopefully only bonuses remained, use them in a simple, additive manner. Just convert them to x_speed first, if there are any x_time via 1/value.

- and if you remained with maluses - perhaps this is not your dps character ^^ Attack speed will never be easy to understand ( especially when they measure duration for some abilities and speed for others )

Because UI shows the attack/recovery duration in seconds, there could be just "attack_time" and "recovery_time" effects.

But:

- "Attack time" sounds like some army term, e.g: "attack time is 11:45. At that time we will launch THE NUKE".

- We are too used with dexterity increasing speed.

Maybe going for "action_speed" and "recovery_speed" would indeed be a better choice. Thus we would get rid of all these "_time" altogether, not to mention that internally it is converted to speed anyway. But this would also require proper UI/hover tooltips that would explain how did +30% action speed transform into -23%. Although you know what? we need this even now))

All they needed was to define a minimum damage to avoid negative numbers.

Seems that they were afraid of those -75% underpen and -50% graze occuring at the same time.

But yeah, letting a certain % of damage go through no matter what is one way to get around that.

Personally though, I'd prefer over/underpen coefficient being applied multiplicatively.

...And same for crit/graze,... but speaking of crits, there is bonus_PEN_onCrit and also overpen bonus, so it's a bit dangerous to touch it now.
**Edited by MaxQuest, 13 February 2019 - 07:22 AM.**