Is there any point to dual-wielding Melee/Ranged? (Sword/Gun)

[Sotnik]

 

 

- However the DPS is -50% to Two-Weapon

Why?

Because at range you're still only going to fire the gun/wand in one hand, and in melee you will only swing the weapon you have in the other.

 

There is no difference in DPS for melee unless you use full attacks. As for range, you get +1 shot once. Which is not +50% DPS. Still, I am not sure how Ranged weapons act with full attacks if only one is reloaded.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Sotnik

[Climhazzard]

This got me thinking about abilities that are good primary attacks.  Monk has force of anguish, torment's reach, and skyward kick.  They would only work with the melee weapon though.  Fighter has power strike, that stuns and has a 100% damage bonus, again it's melee only.  I'm honestly struggling to find anything that works with ranged attacks.

[mjn693]

 

 

- However the DPS is -50% to Two-Weapon

Why?

Because at range you're still only going to fire the gun/wand in one hand, and in melee you will only swing the weapon you have in the other.

 

Dual wielding two ranged means you'll be firing two weapons at range, swinging two weapons in melee, and every active ability that says they are a Full Attack means that you attack with both weapons during the active ability. Examples: Flames of Devotion and most rogue abilities are Full Attack. If it says Primary attack then it is only your main weapon that does the damage. So, a guy holding two pistols using an ability that does Primary attack will only apply the ability with his main hand pistol. Backstab works like this, and it is why two handed weapons work better for it. Although, one handed style isnt bad either.

 

So, a pistol and a sword dual wield means you fire a little faster, but all those Full Attack abilities will work like Primary Attack abilities using the range weapon at range and the melew in melee.

 

One handed you gain about 12 accuracy plus if you take the One Handed talent convert like 20% of hits to crits. I cant remember if it's 20% off the top of my head. So, you fire slower, but you will hit a lot, and get a possibility for crit conversion. If you crit you will get over penetration, and do much more damage.

 

So, damage wise dual Wielding 2 melee, or 2 ranges comes out in the lead. I would say one handed style is next in line, but two handed is close. The critting from one handed and the damage it can do makes it for me, and the attack speed of two handed makes me sad. Then last comes dual Wielding a mix of ranged and melee. It attacks faster than one handed, but not enough to overcome the accuracy bonus of one handed or the damage of two handed. It also has a benefit of not sitting through weapon swap recovery, but that still isnt enough for me.

 

 

On Full Attack abilities you are right, but not all class setups featuring Full Attacks and on many occasions ranged/melee can out-perform 2 ranged or 2 melee damage-wise. 

 

1) your off-hand weapon is inferior 

example:  Exceptional Pistol + normal Pistol vs. Exceptional Pistol + sabre(or whatever)

 

Ranged/melee combo wins here because both setup shoot at same speed but with ranged/melee you only shoot with Exceptional weapon, while the dual pistols' damage is the average between Exceptional and normal ones.

 

2) by extension if your main weapon is better than off-hand then ranged/melee is better

 

Ranged/melee is essentially a variant of single weapon style that trading +12 accuracy(which otherwise get from single weapon) for +30% speed and unique weapon enhancement from off-hand. 

[Myrtillo]

You have no idea how badly I would want full attacks to work with melee+gun when at melee range and do a corsair build using scordeo's trophy and scordeo's saber.

[Lexi]

Its so strange that they would change pistols to a one hander yet not make dual wielding them viable from a min-max perspective. No idea what they could do, but something. Maybe a melee/ranged weapon style that increases accuracy or reload speed for your offhand pistol.

[Murp]

They should add a talent that lets pistols and such be used as blunt weapons in melee range after firing or something.

[Leafar]

Looks like there's at least one pistol meant to be used in one hand along with a melee weapon:

 

 

 

I wonder if you can use this to stack it as much as possible and then switch to a different weapon set that has a two handed sword or something and still benefit from the buff.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Leafar

[Murp]

Also this should have been a thing

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Murp

[Myrtillo]

Looks like there's at least one pistol meant to be used in one hand along with a melee weapon:

 

 

 

I wonder if you can use this to stack it as much as possible and then switch to a different weapon set that has a two handed sword or something and still benefit from the buff.

The best use I found for Scordeo's trophy is to take the upgrade that lets the passive stack for ranged as well, and give it to Maia with pistol modal. She shoots really fast with it, and the gunhawk passive is very strong with fast attacking firearms (perma interrupt)

 

This is what I mentionned in my previous post: Scordeo's gun and saber are clearly made to be wielded together but no matter how hard I think about it, I don't find a way to make it efficient. The only thing that would work wonders is if full attacks were making use of the gun and saber when in melee range, then a good deal of builds could incorporate the combo as core.

 

For now the best usage that I see: Consider yourself a melee character, attack with the blade to stack ranged accuracy, then when you see an opportunity to shoot another target (for exemple to finish off a foe), use the pistol shot and it will most likely crit, and in turn give you more speed with the saber. It gives you some battlefield presence without having to swap between sets.

I am still analyzing what class could use this combo the best, because I really like the concept, although not optimal. Good thing is, POE lets you get away with not being optimal. I like the idea enough to give it a go.

The only thing bothering me for now is that Scordeo's Edge is acquired late in the game.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Myrtillo

[Nemesis7884]

Maybe they should introduce one more weapon style/focus that takes such combinations into account

[divjak]

you get a speed bonus, its actually better if you have that one weapon, be it ranged  or melee, that you wont to use with speed bonus

 

 

So lets say you have 2 pistols, one is better than the other, if you dual wield them, you take turns, so every other shot will be weaker, but if you put melee in other hand than every shot will be from stronger pistol while gaining DW bonus speed.

 

Dual wielding both ranged/melee, really only works out if both of your weapons are good and have  some kind of synergy between them, and also if you use full attack abilities

 

On classes that dont have full attacks, like wizards,  ciphers, chanters, i think asymmetric dual wielding is better if you wont speed

Edited May 18, 2018 by divjak

[CountGrishnackh]

Dual wielding both ranged/melee, really only works out if both of your weapons are good and have  some kind of synergy between them, and also if you use full attack abilities

 

On classes that dont have full attacks, like wizards,  ciphers, chanters, i think asymmetric dual wielding is better if you wont speed

Depending on build i would add monk, as wound spenders are primary, not full

[youspoonybard]

 

Dual wielding both ranged/melee, really only works out if both of your weapons are good and have  some kind of synergy between them, and also if you use full attack abilities

 

On classes that dont have full attacks, like wizards,  ciphers, chanters, i think asymmetric dual wielding is better if you wont speed

Depending on build i would add monk, as wound spenders are primary, not full

 

 

Very early game I use Blunderbuss + 1h to proc Streetfighter with gun modal then Escape in to flank. Guns have no recovery, only reload, so putting them together in one weapon set lets me dive in immediately with no swap time and start slicing, and I get the benefits of dual wield + TWF with the melee weapon. It's pretty good.

 

It's only later on when I get more Guile + Abilities that this becomes less potent. Really, with Crippling / Blinding you're only losing out on 2 pen or 10 accuracy on one attack, functionally, or a second chance to apply the debuff. Not worldbreaking, most of your damage is still coming from those white swings. Sap doesn't care. Finishing Blow / Gambit really wants to dual wield, though.

Edited May 18, 2018 by youspoonybard

[Myrtillo]

 

Very early game I use Blunderbuss + 1h to proc Streetfighter with gun modal then Escape in to flank. Guns have no recovery, only reload, so putting them together in one weapon set lets me dive in immediately with no swap time and start slicing, and I get the benefits of dual wield + TWF with the melee weapon. It's pretty good.

 

It's only later on when I get more Guile + Abilities that this becomes less potent. Really, with Crippling / Blinding you're only losing out on 2 pen or 10 accuracy on one attack, functionally, or a second chance to apply the debuff. Not worldbreaking, most of your damage is still coming from those white swings. Sap doesn't care. Finishing Blow / Gambit really wants to dual wield, though.

 

 

Crippling and blinding strike are also full attacks, so you effectively loose half the damage potential for the same recovery. (but with a slightly faster action animation, so I would say you loose about 40% of the dps potential in the end)

Sap indeed isn't impacted as it is a primary.

 

PS: I love the style of the "Shoot>Escape in>attack" with no recovery as an opener, congrats on finding that tactic. Definitely not op, but efficient and cool af. If you are wearing the great escapist cape, you can even do this without spending 1 guile (as 1 guile is a lot early).

[Witness41920]

[snipped because the post I was responding to has already been sufficiently responded to and this would set the existing conversation back rather than forward, please ignore.]

Edited May 18, 2018 by Witness41920

[Nemesis7884]

i dont really see why you shouldnt shoot the gun in melee range and hit with the sabre ...feels to me like its a bug or an oversight that it doesn't work

[funkyfritter]

With how powerful dual wielding is offhand guns seem great on characters that don't use full attacks. When your mainhand weapon has a powerful unique bonus It's much better to swing it twice as much than alternate with some other weapon. If your pistol comes in handy once in a while or has a bonus of its own, even better.

Edited May 21, 2018 by funkyfritter

[Myrtillo]

With how powerful dual wielding is offhand guns seem great on characters that don't use full attacks. When your mainhand weapon has a powerful unique bonus It's much rather swing it twice as much than alternate with some other weapon. If your pistol comes in handy once in a while or has a bonus of its own, even better.

Yup.

Right now I'm playing as a cipher corsair, he is wielding scordeo's trophy and gravecaller. Most of the time he shots once to trigger scordeo's passive, then runs in melee without recovery.

He stacks gravecaller super fast, focus comes in at a constant pace. No problem so far in PoTD, and he's tons of fun.

[Climhazzard]

So I was thinking offhand scepter with it's modal would be really good for monk builds.  Pretty much all wound spenders are primary attacks except for 1 tier 9 ability, and the modal would allow you to generate wounds from range as long as you're not shattered pillar.  It'd probably be a pretty good way to multi class cipher as well, spend your wounds on anything that gets to close to you, blast away with cipher abilities the rest of the time.

 

Even endlessly summon the dichotomous soul while you blast away with cipher abilities.

 

Assuming scepters with their modal can generate enough focus.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Climhazzard

[SerValwyn]

What about this? will be able to full attack with a pistol and sabre/melee? or basic attack them both at same time?  have anyone tested it?