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Suggestions for improving the AI behavior system

AI behavior tactics script scripting automation

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15 replies to this topic

#1
Multihog

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Letting the players essentially craft their own AI via this interface is great, but I feel it's missing some crucial options:

1. Include items such as potions instead of just abilities. This would reduce the burden of item micromanagement. Example: If [Self: Health < 30%], [Consume: Potion Of Moderate Healing] or [Self: Threatened by Multiple Enemies], [Consume: Potion Of Ultimate Badassery]

2. Allow the switching of weapon sets. Example: [Self: Enemies in Melee Range > 1], [Switch to Weapon Set 1]. This is for the purpose of switching between ranged and melee automatically, and why not for other purposes such as switching between different melee weapons as well. 

3. Make an automated auto-attack behavior type that makes a character attempt to keep their distance from enemies, i.e a ranged character fleeing from melee enemies—also maybe one that makes ranged characters attack targets but not move automatically. 

4. Add an [Enemies Clustered, At Least #], so that AoE spells don't get wasted on single targets.

5. Include modal abilities.

6. Add some sort of way to distinguish enemy ranks/challenge ratings so that the player is able to specify that they want a certain spell/ability to be used only against strong or weak enemies. For example: [Enemy: Rank is Normal/Veteran/Elite/Boss]

7. Make a search function or find a better way to sort the different functions. As of now, it's too cumbersome to always scroll through the massive list of conditions. Maybe introduce filter tabs. 

8. Instead of having fixed [Less Than 50% Health], let us type the exact value we want. 

9. Allow more debuffs as conditions. Example: I want my Paladin to attack the enemy he's cast Sworn Enemy on. However, I can't specify "If:Sworn Enemy - Then X"

 

(Some of these ideas are copied from other people's posts who contributed to the thread. Thanks to them.)

 

Most of this—and much more—was possible in Dragon Age: Origins, which this system was inspired by. With the Even More Advanced Tactics mod, by carefully designing the AI behavior, it was possible to finish the entire game on the hardest difficulty without ever manually commanding anyone, and I did that. It became by far my favorite way to play the game; it became its own game within the game, a very unique experience. 


Edited by Multihog, 14 May 2018 - 04:24 AM.

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#2
Horrorscope

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I'm for this, the better the AI rules we have, the more we can play the game free flowing, which makes it a completely different in feel. Good for multiple plays.


Edited by Horrorscope, 12 May 2018 - 08:10 AM.

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#3
Awkward Davies

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auto-attack: defend position - attack enemy in range of current position, but don't move to attack.


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#4
XANi

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Also, instead of having few "If X is below Y" just have an option to enter/select the number.

 

Like currently it is impossible to do say "only throw that big aoe damage/heal if there is 3 or more targets"


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#5
whiskiz

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Letting the players essentially craft their own AI via this interface is great, but I feel it's missing some crucial options:

1. Include items such as potions instead of just abilities. This would reduce the burden of item micromanagement. Example: If [Self: Health < 30%], [Consume: Potion Of Moderate Healing] or [Self: Threatened by Multiple Enemies], [Consume: Potion Of Ultimate Badassery]

2. Allow the switching of weapon sets. Example: [Self: Enemies in Melee Range > 1], [Switch to Weapon Set 1]. This is for the purpose of switching between ranged and melee automatically, and why not for other purposes such as switching between different melee weapons as well. 

3. Make an automated auto-attack behavior type that makes a character attempt to keep their distance from enemies, i.e a ranged character fleeing from melee enemies.

 

All of this—and much more—was possible in Dragon Age: Origins, which this system was inspired by. With the Even More Advanced Tactics mod, by carefully designing the AI behavior, it was possible to finish the entire game on the hardest difficulty without ever manually commanding anyone, and I did that. It became by far my favorite way to play the game; it became its own game within the game, a very unique experience. 

 

With you for all but setting up your characters to be able to for example ranged auto kite melee, seems a bit gimmicky and potentially OP/imbalanced/exploitable.

 

Edit: I personally believe and wonder if they feel the same, that ai settings are there to take out some of the repeated tedious micro management, not to be able to play your combat for you or do gimmicky things. 

 

Think of it more for quality of life purposes, not something you become dependent on. :p


Edited by whiskiz, 10 May 2018 - 11:29 PM.


#6
Multihog

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And why exactly shouldn't it be robust enough to play the combat for the player if they are able to design behaviors complete enough to replace human input? I don't see any reason to cripple it, and I'm sure Obsidian didn't make it lacking on purpose. Like I said, it's an interesting, valid, and fun way to play the game. It becomes sort of a pre-planning/management game, always improving and patching holes in the tactics that you've designed. Then once you've near-perfected it, you can just marvel at the results. You should try it in Dragon Age: Origins (with the mod I mentioned in the OP.)

 

And I'll tell you that there's nothing OP or gimmicky about characters automatically running away from melee. Dragon Age: Origins had that, and it worked perfectly. It's also super easy to do yourself: just pause the game, and tell your guy to move away. This isn't Starcraft 2. 

 

 

Also, instead of having few "If X is below Y" just have an option to enter/select the number.

 

Like currently it is impossible to do say "only throw that big aoe damage/heal if there is 3 or more targets"

 
Agreed. I have no idea why they didn't do this.  

Edited by Multihog, 10 May 2018 - 11:52 PM.

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#7
GuyNice

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I hope this is an area where modding can step in to improve the game (like in Dragon Age: Origins as you mentioned). Official support would be even better, but I don't how realistic that is. I mean if I had my way Obsidian would just keep patching and releasing content forever, but we can't have everything.


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#8
wih

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I'm another big fan of AI scripting and Dragon Age: Origins + Even More Advanced Tactics mod.

I want to be able to script everything and then sit, watch and be proud of my fully automated guys.

 

 

 

 

 


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#9
Multihog

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I'm another big fan of AI scripting and Dragon Age: Origins + Even More Advanced Tactics mod.

I want to be able to script everything and then sit, watch and be proud of my fully automated guys.

*High five*



#10
Slotharingia

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I'd like to see "enemies clustered" for aoe spells and options that specifically refer to allies instead of "target", as well as the option to revive the dead (I think it was "Ally status: dead" in DA2), none of which I've found in the tactics. Also, would it be hard to make only tactics that actally apply to the character visible? It's a tad confusing to scroll though tons of options that don't apply xD


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#11
Multihog

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I'd like to see "enemies clustered" for aoe spells and options that specifically refer to allies instead of "target", as well as the option to revive the dead (I think it was "Ally status: dead" in DA2), none of which I've found in the tactics. Also, would it be hard to make only tactics that actally apply to the character visible? It's a tad confusing to scroll though tons of options that don't apply xD

Yeah, this. Currently there's no way to prevent your people from wasting AoE spells on isolated enemies. This system is quite flawed, actually. Very lacking in many ways. 

 

Also, how come modal abilities aren't included at all? I'd also like to see some kind of a rank system like DA:O had. [Enemy: Rank is Normal/Veteran/Elite or Higher] or something along those lines. In DA:O, that way you could reserve your most powerful spells for the more dangerous enemies and not have them wasted on trash mobs.


Edited by Multihog, 13 May 2018 - 02:01 AM.

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#12
SmugPlatypus

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1. An autoattack option would be welcome. Sometimes you just want to tell your characters to smack someone without using any abilities.

 

2. Allow more debuffs as conditions. Example: I want my Paladin to attack the enemy he's cast Sworn Enemy on. However, I can't specify "If:Sworn Enemy - Then X"

 

3. Allow modals. In fact, this is particularly egregious as there ARE some modals in the premade AI sets. Example: Tekehu's default AI set includes a trigger for his Shapeshifting, but  when I'm making a custom AI set I can't access his Shapeshift.

 

4. Implement Friendly Fire avoidance in some form or another.

 

Basically, fire up Dragon Age: Origins, rummage around in the custom AI interface there and copy everything that you don't yet have in your system.

 

Having said that, I do VERY much appreciate the custom AI system that is in the game right now. It makes the game a much better experience and allows some much needed automation (casting buffs, emergency heals, etc) that cuts down on the most tedious aspects of micromanagement. While improvements can be made, even this is great!


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#13
angryusaman

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1. An autoattack option would be welcome. Sometimes you just want to tell your characters to smack someone without using any abilities.

 

You can do this by turning off all behaviors and then selecting aggressive from the Auto Attack dropdown menu which means that particular character will look for enemies to auto attack.  You don't have to turn off other behaviors for it to work, though.  That's just if you ONLY want them to auto attack and no other automation.


Edited by angryusaman, 13 May 2018 - 10:46 AM.


#14
The Sharmat

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I'd be happy with it just working to be honest. It won't save most anything I do.



#15
wih

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I'd be happy with it just working to be honest. It won't save most anything I do.

It saves everything for me, however the UI is somewhat unintuitive and it certainly can look like it doesn't save. The player has to create behavior and then not forget to assign it to the intended character. Also, whenever you want to edit the behavior you use, you open behavior editor and the game lists the default behavior, not the one you last edited. So it looks like the game has reverted to the default behavior.



#16
Valamyr

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How about the ability to use more than 2 sets of defaults, it would be useful for multiclass characters who have both offensive and defensive abilities in their sets of skills.

 

And/Or

 

Since the default sets are locked could we get to 'copy' them to an unlocked state to use as basis for a custom script?

 

Both of these would be time savers that dont strictly increase functionality but... significant time saved.


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: AI, behavior, tactics, script, scripting, automation

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