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Why do some people/reviewers dislike the story of Pillars so much.

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#61
Mikeymoonshine

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I know I am arguing with a lot of people here but I do really appreciate these responses and can understand many of them so don't get me wrong.



#62
Mikeymoonshine

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Where as a relatively simplistic story like in the Divinity OS games does not seem to be getting this kind of response (and I am not bashing those games I loved those too). 

Are you sure? Oo Because if you look at steam revievs I think you'll find that every fifth or them or so says that Divinity OS plot is the worst part of the game :) Even the positive ones :) It has the same problems actually but just... on another level. Makes all POE story problems look small in comparison x)

 

Sure but lets take for example this video

 

 

Which argues that a sequal should not have been made because of the problems with the plot. I have not heard anyone say such a thing about Divinity OS and if they did they are an idiiot because divinity OS 2 is a brilliant game. So I kinda feel like people do in fact pick on the plot of this series more and maybe that's just my personal experience but I have read and watched a lot of discussion on both games and I rarely see the story of either divinity game recieving this kind of criticism.



#63
Mikeymoonshine

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Eh, one other choice. I *really* hate all the descriptive "his eyes shift furtively" and "he wipes sweat from his brow" descriptive junk in the dialogue. The Infinity Engine games did not need it. Good dialogue in books doesn't need it. It's just baggage that slows everything down for no particular reason.

 

I like some of it but I do feel there is a bit much of it and it does make me more inclined to skip a lot of it on a second playthrough.


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#64
Tigranes

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I guess, as I said I am not saying their aren't issues with this story and I get having problems with the way it's presented too. I just find issues in so many games it sometimes seems like Pillars is singled out a little. Like the point about urgency (it makes no sense fot you to be doing side quests while *insert plot* is happening). That can be applied to so many rpgs I honestly roll my eyes when it comes up. I get that it's a problem but it exists in so many games as people expect side quests in rpgs and ,many rpgs have some level of urgency to their main quest so it can be all epic and save the worldy.

 

More to this point, I think if POE1 hadn't laid it on so thick, it would provoke a lot less negative reactions. Same goes for Torment: Tides of Numenera.

 

I liked POE1's dryness, its plot twist, many of the more polarising companions like Sagani, etc, and even then, I was speedreading half the time because everything is couched in unnecessary purple prose. The first couple hours of Deadfire, I feel the dialogues themselves are much better, but they still needed to delete all the descriptives - not because descriptives are bad per se, but because they are done so badly. *You see Tigranes furrow his brow, as if in deep thought. The shadows extend behind him, flickering in the semi-darkness cast by the Vailian lantern on the porch, which bears an ornate decoration and by the way was given by his grandmother who back in 1978...*

 

Anyone who's done any professional writing - scholarly, fiction,whatever - knows that the first thing most writers have to learn is how to cut. I suspect there is very little systematic oversight for most RPG writing, as you get some guidelines, go and write, then it's so chaotic trying to squeeze it into however the game/level design/quests/etc have changed.


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#65
Mikeymoonshine

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I guess, as I said I am not saying their aren't issues with this story and I get having problems with the way it's presented too. I just find issues in so many games it sometimes seems like Pillars is singled out a little. Like the point about urgency (it makes no sense fot you to be doing side quests while *insert plot* is happening). That can be applied to so many rpgs I honestly roll my eyes when it comes up. I get that it's a problem but it exists in so many games as people expect side quests in rpgs and ,many rpgs have some level of urgency to their main quest so it can be all epic and save the worldy.

 

More to this point, I think if POE1 hadn't laid it on so thick, it would provoke a lot less negative reactions. Same goes for Torment: Tides of Numenera.

 

I liked POE1's dryness, its plot twist, many of the more polarising companions like Sagani, etc, and even then, I was speedreading half the time because everything is couched in unnecessary purple prose. The first couple hours of Deadfire, I feel the dialogues themselves are much better, but they still needed to delete all the descriptives - not because descriptives are bad per se, but because they are done so badly. *You see Tigranes furrow his brow, as if in deep thought. The shadows extend behind him, flickering in the semi-darkness cast by the Vailian lantern on the porch, which bears an ornate decoration and by the way was given by his grandmother who back in 1978...*

 

Anyone who's done any professional writing - scholarly, fiction,whatever - knows that the first thing most writers have to learn is how to cut. I suspect there is very little systematic oversight for most RPG writing, as you get some guidelines, go and write, then it's so chaotic trying to squeeze it into however the game/level design/quests/etc have changed.

 

 

I don't disagree although interestingly I love pillars but never completed Torment (I may go back to it). I found the writing in Torment too much in a way I didn't for Pillars but it was really the combat that made me quit, it was just so boring to play. I will try it again though as there is a lot about that game I liked.



#66
Tigranes

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The real Torment (Planescape: Torment that is) & Mask of the Betrayer are, a lot of the time, good examples of how to have verbose and pseudo-philosophical writing without laying it on too thick and becoming indulgent.


Edited by Tigranes, 13 May 2018 - 11:17 AM.

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#67
Varana

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I have not heard anyone say such a thing about Divinity OS and if they did they are an idiiot because divinity OS 2 is a brilliant game.

Mostly because no one thought the story of D:OS was particularly interesting, or even good. ;) I can't remember a single serious D:OS review that praised its story (maybe some that came out right at the beginning and didn't actually play the whole thing). Particular quests or areas, sure, But the story as a whole was not received very well.
Which was absolutely not a problem because the focus of D:OS was so obviously completely elsewhere. The story was never a liability for a sequel because no one really cared about it.

#68
Sedrefilos

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Larian didn't promote the story in their games much. Well, maybe in DOS2 which had pretty good story imo. DOS games were all about freedom, systems and fun and they both deilvered 101%. Obsidian on the other hand talked a lot about story and writing and they always brough up how "they are known" for that so criticism will fall heavy on those.

That said I liked the story of Pillars at the end. Not the story of the Watcher necessarily but the revelations about the gods etc olus the choices you could make during the last parts of the game.


Edited by Sedrefilos, 13 May 2018 - 12:03 PM.

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#69
Aramintai

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I don't know about reviews but I didn't particularly like POE2's main story because it was actually really short and because

Spoiler
So for an RPG to have only one rather disappointing ending, all the unimportant side fluff aside, is really shameful in nowadays high RPG standards.

Also, it didn't help that the ending was really confusing and basically retconed POE1 established lore without any coherent explanation. I made a post in spoilers section about it:

https://forums.obsid...ally-confusing/



#70
SonicMage117

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First I'd like to mention, "dry" and "boring" don't make any story bad for everyone. Remember your books written by classics. Many of them are slow-paced, overly detailed, filled with unnesessary descriptions... but they are still considered great.

Games are not books, in no way do the two mediums operate the same, there is much more focus on a visual and gameplay controk aspect in a video game that is missing from books.

That said, I shouldn't EVER have to play a game for more than a few hours to discover if it's good or not. I should be able yo tell right off the bat, either by the main protagonists, the settings, the atmosphere, etc. The generic excuse of "you need to give the game more time to give it a fair chance" never really existed in reality.

The fact is that there are thousands of great rpg's, alot which are far better than IE rpgs in both mechanics and storytelling but excluding that fact, if people don't prefer Pillars over say Divinity or Moon Orient, doesn't mean they don't know as much as these older folks who cling to their BG for life, it also doesn't mean that they have bad tastes.



In regards to the OP's question, I suppose they just didn't like it. Pillars is a very niche product, if I hadn't grown up on IE games, I poabably would have no interest in it and more interest in Jrpg's. There's really no use in yourself or any other member trying to unlock the riddle of the possibilities to why, it's not going to happen.

People need to get over the fact that it's not the greatest franchise but it's also not the worst. This isn't even the best place to ask as it's an Obsidian forum ;)

#71
Mikeymoonshine

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In regards to the OP's question, I suppose they just didn't like it. Pillars is a very niche product, if I hadn't grown up on IE games, I poabably would have no interest in it and more interest in Jrpg's. There's really no use in yourself or any other member trying to unlock the riddle of the possibilities to why, it's not going to happen.

People need to get over the fact that it's not the greatest franchise but it's also not the worst. This isn't even the best place to ask as it's an Obsidian forum ;)

 

 

As I have said several time already there is a specific dislike for the plot, the vast majority of comments even here echo that. I'm not trying to say people are wrong for disliking it or upset that they don't but despite the fact that I did have issues with the plot it didn't seem especially bad to me either. Some of the criticsm I have seen seems somewhat overblown to me. So I was interested to know what people here thought. It's really as simple as that.

 

As someone suggested above maybe it's just that this game is more plot focused than many others, or maybe it's because this is a spiritual successor to games that are known for their plots.







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