Now only 5 party members hard to find room for a ranger

[master guardian]

So we had 6 party members in pillars 1.

 

I consider ranger a support class really as it doesn't fill any critical role like a tank, healer, buffer, de-buffer.

 

One could argue they fill the same role as a rogue or barb as a second line damage dealer, but with only a 5 member party it would be hard to position a ranger in battle formation where they are not not getting engaged by an enemy melee character.

 

Taking this into consideration i think a rogue or barb would be a far better option then a ranger because they engage better in melee. 

 

It is also a greater priority to keep your casters out of melee then a secondary damage dealer.

 

I am finding it very hard to justify putting a ranger in my party. I think they will be to hard to position both a ranger and casters to keep them out of melee.

 

Say if a party consisted off:

 

melee/ tank role: Fighter/ pally/ chanter

melee/ tank role: fighter/ pally/ chanter

Secondary damage dealer: ranger

Caster/ healer: mage/ priest/ druid

Caster/ healer: mage/ priest/ druid

 

That would leave only 2 characters to protect the rest of your party from being engaged by melee...........................hmmmm 

[Yosharian]

Yes but multiclass..

[Balbanes]

I dunno, I thought ranger pets made reasonably good off-tanks in PoE 1 (after ranger was rebalanced, natch).  They could never hold a line on their own, but their DR made them pretty good at picking up anyone the main tank(s) failed to hold.

[George_Truman]

Yeah what he/she said^. Your tanks can be support, also you have an extra body in the pet. Not all backliners need that much protection either. Wizards can be super tanky especially with a dagger and shield.

[Sceptenar]

If you need more characters to hold down melee you could pick a bear as the hunter pet, they can withstand a fair bit of punishment while the ranger rains down death from range.

[GuyNice]

Rangers are also perfectly capable of being melee combatants themselves. Especially if you take Stalker as your subclass. And as Yosharian said multiclass is a thing. Imagine a Stalker/Kind Wayfarer fighting side by side with their pet, buffing and healing it, along with with the rest of the party. Seems like a great frontline tank/support/striker. A formidable duo indeed.

[hilfazer]

Yes but multiclass..

 

Yeah, master guardian. Obsidian pushes us towards multiclassing. Be a good player and play the game as designers want you to play.

 

"We have this new awesome feature - multiclassing! And we'll make sure you'll be using it by reducing party size, he he he."

[Queeg]

Rogue/Ranger has to be a viable multi-class option, I think.

 

I remember the first start of PoE I and choosing a Ranger, I restarted in Defiance Bay and chose a Rogue instead (back when IEmod didn't exist).

I never had Sagani in party outside of completing her quest (and only her quest).

 

However, I'm looking forward to seeing how Maia Rua fares. I never played without Kana and for him I have to do this.

[TheDogProfessor]

I played PoE on PotD as a Ranger with the Bear companion. To me, it seems like the reduced party size makes the Ranger more powerful.

 

An extra body is more useful the fewer bodies you have.

[VincentNZ]

I was never much of a min/maxer, but the Ranger I used as PC in the first runs, was doing exactly what it said on the tin. Stationary single target DPS. He was hitting hard regularly and the DPS was further increased with the pet, which should not be underestimated. Plus of course you can use the pet to tank slackers.

 

Further although medium armour is usually badly balanced, the ranger can take a bit more damage than a mage who can fill the same DPS role, and be a decent melee combatant.

 

Now if you are really into the game mechanics the hybrid classes often are a bit underwhelming and with multiclassing this is even more so the case. Why choose a class that is good in two things, when you can have a multiclass that exceeds at those two disciplines. I would say that a rogue/fighter will deliver the same ranged DPS, while being very good in melee as well as being able to take a beating. Same with a mage/fighter.

 

And yeah the 5 man party really enhances the "need" for multi-classing especially with only one healer around. It also makes the game more complicated when you have to think about two classes per character. Personally, I like subclasses and multi-classes for the PC and predefined companions, but I met Aloth as a mage and Eder as a fighter. The sheer thought of leveling them as something absurd like Druid or Cypher makes my head ache.

On the other hand, since there is no Durance and we only have one Cleric, multi-classing means that you can actually live without that NPC, whereas Durance was definitely a must for me in PoE1.

[Archaven]

I played PoE on PotD as a Ranger with the Bear companion. To me, it seems like the reduced party size makes the Ranger more powerful.

 

An extra body is more useful the fewer bodies you have.

 

It's not more powerful. It probably a must for me to have a ranger in every playthrough. Wondering how effective Maia's bird would be. Is it just there for show? Or justing acting as a familiar that give small bonuses? Really hope it's as good as Itumaak. Probably not dealing as much damage as Itumaak, at least it can disorient, or probably debuff/CC a group of enemies that will be handy. During my earlier playthroughs of pillars i hated Ranger. Now i seems to love it greatly. I'm actually having a hard time in PoE to slot in all the characters i want in a 6 party character. I hope multi-class it will be as good as playing 2 classes with 1 character in Deadfire. I honestly so hyped for Deadfire!

Edited May 5, 2018 by Archaven

[Karkarov]

And yeah the 5 man party really enhances the "need" for multi-classing especially with only one healer around. It also makes the game more complicated when you have to think about two classes per character. Personally, I like subclasses and multi-classes for the PC and predefined companions, but I met Aloth as a mage and Eder as a fighter. The sheer thought of leveling them as something absurd like Druid or Cypher makes my head ache.

Just to clear a few things up in this post, which are understandable mistakes since it seems like you haven't jumped in yet until near release.

 

1 - Multiclassing is only unrestricted for the PC, and any custom adventurers you create from taverns.  Eder for example can be a straight fighter, a straight rogue, or a multi class fighter/rogue (which is called a Swashbuckler in game). That's it, he can't take wizard levels, be a priest, cipher, etc etc.  Even the subclass choices of companions and sidekicks is locked down.  So even if you gave a rogue level to Eder he can't have the assassin subclass for example.

 

2 - Healing is overrated.  Priests real strength is their buffs.  Every character regens to full HP at the end of every fight in Deadfire, you only take HP penalties if you get injured.  Getting injuries is admittedly a lot easier this time.  1 injury is not horrid, 2 is a noticeable penalty, 3 is you better rest right now, 4 is I hope you didn't like that character they dead.

 

3 - Single classing is still very powerful.  The highest power abilities for each class can only be accessed by single class, so if you want those level 9 wizard spells I hope your wizard isn't multied.

 

4 - Multi class characters don't get extra abilities.  Every character gets the same number of ability points to use as they level, they just get a larger pool to pick from.  So multi class characters can be more versatile, but they do not get more powers per se if that makes sense.

[Riftis]

4 - Multi class characters don't get extra abilities.  Every character gets the same number of ability points to use as they level, they just get a larger pool to pick from.  So multi class characters can be more versatile, but they do not get more powers per se if that makes sense.

Erm I believe you are mistaken on this point, unless my information is outdated. My understanding of it is that single classes get a new ability every level, and gain a power level every two levels. Multi classes gain an ability every level, and TWO abilities every three levels, one for each class, when they go up in power level. This means that multiclass characters do end up with more abilities, and it also means that you can't pick a multiclass character and then only pick abilities from one class, you'll need to pick one from your other class at least once every three levels.  

[Voss]

 

4 - Multi class characters don't get extra abilities.  Every character gets the same number of ability points to use as they level, they just get a larger pool to pick from.  So multi class characters can be more versatile, but they do not get more powers per se if that makes sense.

Erm I believe you are mistaken on this point, unless my information is outdated. My understanding of it is that single classes get a new ability every level, and gain a power level every two levels. Multi classes gain an ability every level, and TWO abilities every three levels, one for each class, when they go up in power level. This means that multiclass characters do end up with more abilities, and it also means that you can't pick a multiclass character and then only pick abilities from one class, you'll need to pick one from your other class at least once every three levels.  

 

Yours is outdated.  Single class also get extra abilities- each time they reach a new power level (past first).   [so, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 16th, 19th]

This means they start slightly behind [start at first level with 1 ability vs 1 plus 1 abilities], but catch up [at 7th] and eventually pull ahead [9th, though they're briefly equal again at 10th]

[Riftis]

 

 

4 - Multi class characters don't get extra abilities.  Every character gets the same number of ability points to use as they level, they just get a larger pool to pick from.  So multi class characters can be more versatile, but they do not get more powers per se if that makes sense.

Erm I believe you are mistaken on this point, unless my information is outdated. My understanding of it is that single classes get a new ability every level, and gain a power level every two levels. Multi classes gain an ability every level, and TWO abilities every three levels, one for each class, when they go up in power level. This means that multiclass characters do end up with more abilities, and it also means that you can't pick a multiclass character and then only pick abilities from one class, you'll need to pick one from your other class at least once every three levels.  

 

Yours is outdated.  Single class also get extra abilities- each time they reach a new power level (past first).   [so, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 16th, 19th]

This means they start slightly behind [start at first level with 1 ability vs 1 plus 1 abilities], but catch up [at 7th] and eventually pull ahead [9th, though they're briefly equal again at 10th]

 

Interesting. Is there a chart for this somewhere? 

[Boeroer]

None that I know of, but as a beta player I can confirm this.

[Riftis]

Either way I'm okay with this, multiclassing always seemed more desirable to me for the inherent synergies between classes, giving them more abilities was just the cherry on top that they didn't seem to need. Good to see some more advantages to going single classes. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Riftis

[Voss]

There is a chart on the wiki.   A lot of stuff is currently in flux there (updates from Cohh's early access stream), but this chart looks current

 

https://pillarsofeternity2.wiki.fextralife.com/Classes

 

scroll down a bit to power sources and power level

[VincentNZ]

 

And yeah the 5 man party really enhances the "need" for multi-classing especially with only one healer around. It also makes the game more complicated when you have to think about two classes per character. Personally, I like subclasses and multi-classes for the PC and predefined companions, but I met Aloth as a mage and Eder as a fighter. The sheer thought of leveling them as something absurd like Druid or Cypher makes my head ache.

Just to clear a few things up in this post, which are understandable mistakes since it seems like you haven't jumped in yet until near release.

 

1 - Multiclassing is only unrestricted for the PC, and any custom adventurers you create from taverns.  Eder for example can be a straight fighter, a straight rogue, or a multi class fighter/rogue (which is called a Swashbuckler in game). That's it, he can't take wizard levels, be a priest, cipher, etc etc.  Even the subclass choices of companions and sidekicks is locked down.  So even if you gave a rogue level to Eder he can't have the assassin subclass for example.

 

2 - Healing is overrated.  Priests real strength is their buffs.  Every character regens to full HP at the end of every fight in Deadfire, you only take HP penalties if you get injured.  Getting injuries is admittedly a lot easier this time.  1 injury is not horrid, 2 is a noticeable penalty, 3 is you better rest right now, 4 is I hope you didn't like that character they dead.

 

3 - Single classing is still very powerful.  The highest power abilities for each class can only be accessed by single class, so if you want those level 9 wizard spells I hope your wizard isn't multied.

 

4 - Multi class characters don't get extra abilities.  Every character gets the same number of ability points to use as they level, they just get a larger pool to pick from.  So multi class characters can be more versatile, but they do not get more powers per se if that makes sense.

 

Oh wow, I thought it was really like in BG2, where you were just restricted by having one less level at the end of the adventure, but aside from this can use all the tools of the classes. Basically the Aerie situation, who was immensly powerful or the Kensai/Mage thing.

Thanks for clearing things up a bit, I truly have not touched any gameplay of Deadfire bar the infos I got from this forum!

[flazeo25]

Single class get 9th power level and 28 abilitys to put into their class while multiclass get 7th power level and 27 abilities which they have to put one into each class every power level.

[Voss]

Single class get 9th power level and 28 abilitys to put into their class while multiclass get 7th power level and 27 abilities which they have to put one into each class every power level.

Not true for multiclass.  They get one point for each class when they hit a new power level (every 3 levels), but only 1 point (which can be put into either class) for the two levels inbetween.  So they have to split their points somewhere between 7 in one class and 20 in the other (the extremes), or the balanced spread, which is 14 in one, 13 in the other. 

 

They're also not only capped at power level 7, but they have to get more lower level abilities (4 of each level) rather than 3 for single class (and only 2 1st level abilities).  For 7th tier abilities, multiclass characters can at most get 2 in one class and 1 in the other. You can't save points for later, either.

[Archaven]

hmm... so still just 1 ability to chose from 2 classes (when multi-class)? if so then i think it's severely limited. if i can choose 1 ability per class then that's much better.

[mrmonocle]

Ranged ranger is actually worse than melee stalker with a boar.

Edited May 6, 2018 by mrmonocle

[master guardian]

yeah i just checked out ranger on early access

 

there not very good at all. probably one of the weakest classess IMO

 

mainly because twin arrow got bumped up to a level 8 ability, is not a model anymore and costs bond to use.........................mehhh

Edited May 6, 2018 by master guardian

[Riftis]

hmm... so still just 1 ability to chose from 2 classes (when multi-class)? if so then i think it's severely limited. if i can choose 1 ability per class then that's much better.

It's one ability per level except when you go up in power level, then you get one for each, or single classes get two. Here is the chart: