Chris Avellone: The Final Frontier

[injurai]

 

 

RPG Codex was one of the communities basically 100% guaranteed to want to believe every part of this. That's why it's there.

 

Aren't they saying we'd be the ones to disbelieve it

 

This IS Obsidian's board. That's a fair expectation. But this board seems more apathetic about this subject than anything. I expected to wake up to a much larger thread, but apparently "Chris hates Obsidian" isn't as big a draw on this board as posting "Romance in PoE II".

 

 

Like I said, some Chris-bashing here fits right in, as there aren't many Obsidian fanboys here, nor slaving fans of particular devs. It's no surprise at all.

 

Obsidian is a company of dozens and dozens of individuals, fulfilling quite varied roles, so I don't see the point in making simple detrimental remarks of that collective.

 

True & True

[Zack Fair]

 

 

 

No, but good question.

 

Aside from making up what Obsidian chose to never pay me, I set aside a legal fund to deal with any repercussions, and I will fight anything they bring to the table, tooth and nail. I welcome it.

 

If confronted with evil (as categorized by existing employees who will soon resign - check back in a week or two for the latest round, even though one of them dropped yesterday), I will be prepared to fight it. I guarantee I have more in my bank account than Obsidian does, since they rarely think more than 2 months in advance - and unfortunately, their very, very expensive lawyer charges by the hour, which is unfortunate, but he knows, remora-like, what to attach himself to to get the most financial gain.

 

But it's all okay - Paradox has already been in touch, and they aren't too happy with how Obsidian handled the work they asked for. Future revelations will likely be much more fun than mine.

 

Ouch, this is getting more and more interesting each day.

 

 

I mean it's hard enough to find good RPG's these days as it is, and it won't be easier with Obsidian gone.

 

I would never want Obsidian gone. But this is a great time for RPGs, it is easier than ever to find good RPGs. Just a few from the top of my head: Age of Decadence, Dungeon Rats. Underrail, Divinity Original Sin 1-2, Wasteland 2, Torment, Expedition: Conquistador and Vikings. And many more are coming.

 

 

 

What is this RPG Codex anyway? The gossip magazine of rpgs? lol

They interviewd Avellone about the Obsidian situation then came and post it here to make a fuss - rofl.

And expecting our minds to be blown as if they uncovered some worldwide conspiracy :D :D :D

What's more, that interview apparently happened two years ago and only now, when the sequel of the last game MCA worked on is about to be released, they decided to post it. How convenient  . But not unexpected from that site.

 

You know f*ck all about how this interview went down, so keep the conspiracy theories to yourself.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Zack Fair

[Mebrilia]

RPG Codex did spread the article and is normal since is the RPG Codex that got that Chris Avellone Interview.. Of course is spreading it for knowledge many of you forget Codexers actually baked Pillars of Eternity and there is not interest on see the franchise sink. 

 

I can understand how somebody could dislike the Codex after all unlike many sites out there Codex is not politically correct and there is no censorship there that could lead to many dislike well such is life.

[Sedrefilos]

 

What is this RPG Codex anyway? The gossip magazine of rpgs? lol

They interviewd Avellone about the Obsidian situation then came and post it here to make a fuss - rofl.

And expecting our minds to be blown as if they uncovered some worldwide conspiracy :D :D :D

What's more, that interview apparently happened two years ago and only now, when the sequel of the last game MCA worked on is about to be released, they decided to post it. How convenient  . But not unexpected from that site.

 

rofl that's lame :D

[Ethics Gradient]

I told you this was bound to get more interesting 

 

You know what's interesting?  Chris is currently employed by a subsidiary of Take-Two.  Another subsidiary of Take-Two is contracted to be the publisher of the coming Tim Cain project.  Avellone's claims may not rise to the level of defamation, but it's certainly actionable if the board of Take-Two is tired of watching him intentionally harm the reputation of a development partner. 

 

Was he wronged, passed over, or slighted?  Who knows; the conversation is almost entirely one-sided.  But I'm sure the artists and QA teams at Obsidian aren't too thankful that he's found this exact moment in time to "speak truth to power".  Coming into contact with people who are willing to raze your career to settle a personal score is textbook "worst co-worker" material.

 

You have a problem with a person? Fine.  But you lose a tremendous amount of moral high ground if your quest for revenge puts a hundred other employees in the cross-fire.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Ethics Gradient

[IndiraLightfoot]

Great post, Ethics Gradient! 'Tis the core of the matter, isn't it?

 

For those in the know:

-Did Chris literally make this comments just recently, or were they unearthed from that old Codexian interview, like unreleased comments?

-And similarly, did the Codex withhold anything "juicy" deliberately to these days just before the Deadfire release? 

 

I haven't bothered wading through the moras.

Edited May 3, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[Mebrilia]

What Chris did is just telling he had problems with the upper management problems that apparentely brought many problems to MCA and his life that again was not a mistery in past but just now it started to be more specific about it explaining also why.

 

Seems to me that people are failing to see the point here at the point that are ready to blame it because he talked about this situation in public.

 

So it works right that? A company has the right to be unhetical and do terrible things about you and you must stay silent otherwise you are the bad guy?

 

Again slave mentality.

 

Only the time will tell how this will end but i am sure something more will pop up soon enough and there will be more info to chew on.

 

And i laugh to who assume the codex spread this just because deadfire is about to release.

 

Again some Codexer baked pillars of eternity and have no interest to see the franchise sink.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Mebrilia

[Amentep]

What is this RPG Codex anyway? The gossip magazine of rpgs? lol

 

To be fair, RPG Codex is one of the forums that (as I remember it and I find my memory cheats more and more as I get older) was started by former BIS/Interplay posters during a period when a lot of former posters were flocking to other forums. Because their approach to moderation is fairly light, allowing people to say/act any way with consequences mostly being social rather than administrative, the forums tend to be a free-for-all; as such there are a lot of polarized opinions, long memories for grudges and such.

 

There is a love/hate relationship between them and other parts of RPG fandom; some see them, as they see themselves, as the torch bearers for True RPGs, others as the Mos Eisley spaceport of RPG forums. 

 

Anyhow, because they started out as a hardcore RPG site, they also did reporting on games that fit the classic style and made connections with people who made those games.  Avellone is one of those, but they've done interviews with other developers and broke news stories before.

[morhilane]

 

 

If Avellone hurt PoE's development that much, maybe he really was fired?

 

It can't be overstated. When Chris left Obsidian back in 2015, everybody assumed it was a planned and orderly "resigned to pursue other interests" scenario. Like maybe there was some bad blood involved, but it basically happened entirely out of his volition. Now all of a sudden he's talking about how his health insurance was abruptly cancelled and he was left in the lurch. That would not have happened if he had planned to leave Obsidian!

 

So if Chris Avellone was fired, the question that needs to be asked is - why?

 

 

Job benefits always end when you leave a job, that include health insurance. There isn't a single company on the planet who will keep paying benefits to/for an ex-employee. People using that to label Obsidian as a bad company clearly have very poor real job/working experience.

 

The whole interview reads as MCA having a narcissistic victim personality disorder to me too. Which probably means he left own his own accord, but now believes he was forced to leave...

[Armanz]

What Chris did is just telling he had problems with the upper management problems that apparentely brought many problems to MCA and his life that again was not a mistery in past but just now it started to be more specific about it explaining also why.

 

Seems to me that people are failing to see the point here at the point that are ready to blame it because he talked about this situation in public.

 

So it works right that? A company has the right to be unhetical and do terrible things about you and you must stay silent otherwise you are the bad guy?

 

Again slave mentality.

 

Only the time will tell how this will end but i am sure something more will pop up soon enough and there will be more info to chew on.

 

Most people here are being fairly objective  with this situation and the given (lack of?) information. Meanwhile you are treating Chris' words like they are facts throughout this thread. This is not a healthy way to have a discussion.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Armanz

[Mebrilia]

 

What Chris did is just telling he had problems with the upper management problems that apparentely brought many problems to MCA and his life that again was not a mistery in past but just now it started to be more specific about it explaining also why.

 

Seems to me that people are failing to see the point here at the point that are ready to blame it because he talked about this situation in public.

 

So it works right that? A company has the right to be unhetical and do terrible things about you and you must stay silent otherwise you are the bad guy?

 

Again slave mentality.

 

Only the time will tell how this will end but i am sure something more will pop up soon enough and there will be more info to chew on.

 

Most people here are being as objective as they can be with this situation. Meanwhile you are treating Chris' words like they are facts throughout this thread. This is not a healthy way to have a discussion.

 

 

 No as i said twice.. Chris in past never gave me reasons to doubt about him.. Unlike obsidian.

 

So yes i am inclined more to believe in Chris and beside there is more about this to be discussed that have yet to pop up just give it time.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Mebrilia

[LittleRose]

Wait. If this interview is two years old and was just posted right now, I was wrong. There may be an evil side in this one, but it's neither Chris nor Obsidian.

[Achilles]

 

 

 

If Avellone hurt PoE's development that much, maybe he really was fired?

It can't be overstated. When Chris left Obsidian back in 2015, everybody assumed it was a planned and orderly "resigned to pursue other interests" scenario. Like maybe there was some bad blood involved, but it basically happened entirely out of his volition. Now all of a sudden he's talking about how his health insurance was abruptly cancelled and he was left in the lurch. That would not have happened if he had planned to leave Obsidian!

 

So if Chris Avellone was fired, the question that needs to be asked is - why?

Job benefits always end when you leave a job, that include health insurance. There isn't a single company on the planet who will keep paying benefits to/for an ex-employee. People using that to label Obsidian as a bad company clearly have very poor real job/working experience.

 

The whole interview reads as MCA having a narcissistic victim personality disorder to me too. Which probably means he left own his own accord, but now believes he was forced to leave...

Mostly true. Big companies (billion dollar orgs, not mid-sized indie developers) will sometimes include extended healthcare as part of a severance package (usually 30 days), and pension packages might also include healthcare. But for the most part you are correct; if you leave or if you are fired, that’s it. The idea that Obsidian is acting alone or doing something shady is ridiculous.

[Mebrilia]

Wait. If this interview is two years old and was just posted right now, I was wrong. There may be an evil side in this one, but it's neither Chris nor Obsidian.

 

Of course it is all an evil plan by Codex part... You will be assimilated...

 

Of course it was Sarcasm

[Infinitron]

Wait. If this interview is two years old and was just posted right now, I was wrong. There may be an evil side in this one, but it's neither Chris nor Obsidian.

 

You misunderstand. Chris is saying these things right now, in the RPG Codex forum thread that serves as the comments section for the interview. His answers in the interview itself are more mild.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Infinitron

[P.Jazz]

Wait. If this interview is two years old and was just posted right now, I was wrong. There may be an evil side in this one, but it's neither Chris nor Obsidian.

It's not. The interview started two years ago through correspondence between Fairfax and MCA, but was only finished about two weeks ago or so due to time constraints of the participants. All the people trying to make up conspiracy theories about how it's a ploy to sabotage Deadfire release should probably read the interview, because it's literally in the first paragraph.

[Utritum]

beside there is more about this to be discussed that have yet to pop up just give it time.

Why don't you post it then, instead of just being coy about it? This isn't some trading card battle anime where you hold off on revealing your trap card until it makes the most dramatical sense.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Utritum

[Ethics Gradient]

So yes i am inclined more to believe in Chris and beside there is more about this to be discussed that have yet to pop up just give it time.

 

It's not to say Avellone's recollections aren't believable.  I don't think anyone around here is pro-employee-mistreatment, regardless of how much they like Obsidian.  We're just short on actual details, and the truth of the matter likely lies somewhere in the middle, rather than on one end or the other.  

 

But the point is that you don't win any prizes fighting your battles in the court of public opinion.  It makes everyone look like a jerk, slowly opens you up to some form of legal trouble, and actually harms your case should you seek to file a lawsuit in the future.  Considering that one of Avellone's posts extolls the values of legal advice, it seems odd that he may not have considered that before setting off on this bender.

[Skazz]

I don't think anyone around here is pro-employee-mistreatment

 

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

Wait. If this interview is two years old and was just posted right now, I was wrong. There may be an evil side in this one, but it's neither Chris nor Obsidian.

 

You misunderstand. Chris is saying these things right now, in the RPG Codex forum thread that serves as the comments section for the interview. His answers in the interview itself are more mild.

 

 

 

 

Wait. If this interview is two years old and was just posted right now, I was wrong. There may be an evil side in this one, but it's neither Chris nor Obsidian.

It's not. The interview started two years ago through correspondence between Fairfax and MCA, but was only finished about two weeks ago or so due to time constraints of the participants. All the people trying to make up conspiracy theories about how it's a ploy to sabotage Deadfire release should probably read the interview, because it's literally in the first paragraph.

 

Ah, thank you. This is what I needed a clarification on, so the Codex is just as taken aback about these MCA blurbs as anybody else?

[Mebrilia]

Yes he went to us revealing this thing just recently you can check the codex thread for confirmation.

[Ethics Gradient]

Ah, thank you. This is what I needed a clarification on, so the Codex is just as taken aback about these MCA blurbs as anybody else?

 

Gods yeah.  

Sure they may have intentionally dropped a little drama grenade with the initial article, but the ensuing back-and-forth was both unexpected and positively bonkers.

[lordgizka]

Frankly, I enjoy Avellone's writing style. It is wordy as all hell, but it is, at least to me, never dull. In fact, Durance and Grieving Mother had the most engaging stories out of all of the companions in PoE.

 

And I remember reading previews claiming that Deadfire is a lot less wordy compared to the first game.

 

So, whatever the truth of this whole debacle is, I am currently inferring that his writing style (perhaps, even overall work ethic) was, in fact, the problem and the source of potential conflicts with others in Obs' management. Regardless of who was incompetent as a manager or actually escalated the situation. Which means, the final product promises to be more dull. I would love to be surprised though.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Heh, at least now I reckon Infintron's Final Frontier title is warranted!

It feels like Q is going to show up any nanosecond now, in the Fourth Quadrant, after us being transported there via an unexpected wormhole slip up.

 

P.S. Having read Chris' comments once again, I can't help but feeling he's been writing those under the influence. He comes across as positively sloshed.

Edited May 3, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[213374U]

I don't know.  I have a hard time feeling like this was anything other than the equivalent of a "crazy" girlfriend telling everyone you did stuff you didn't do to make your mutual friends hate you.  In this scenario, MCA is the crazy girlfriend.  A woman scorned and all that. 

 

Hurt? Sure. Obsessed? Maybe. I wouldn't go as far as suggesting he's making anything up, because he has very little to gain from this, and potentially a lot to lose. I mean, look at this thread. The first casualty here is his rep, to many. He keeps it up, he may have to deal with legal ramifications. And regardless of his declarations with regards to "fighting evil", the only real winners here will be the lawyers if it comes to that.

 

Or maybe he is crazy and truly believes that just a bunch of posts of his on the 'dex will be enough to destroy "the owners" (great name for a conspiracy group), but to me he doesn't come off as that unhinged.