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How good, mediocre or plain bad will Deadfire be?

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#41
Tattyblue

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In the beginning the forum will sing its praises as is their usual play. But the metacritic rating will not exceed or match Pillars (89). Nor will its steam rating be as high (85% positive)

 

A game can change its setting, it can change its tone, it can change its mechanics, but it will lose fans when it does all 3 in its very next sequel. Many non super fans who did not follow it for weeks or months on end will not understand the need for changes on many mechanics. They will be looking for pillars and will be getting something very different. Many of the reviewers like IGN will probably punish the game's review score for the change in tone.

 

I feel like sales will be similar to the first game but it will not grow the IP in popularity. In the start the game will be great for the beta super fans (Boeroer) who will love it no matter what, and it will be mediocre to the people who liked Pillars but do not like all the changes (myself). I dont think anyone will think its bad well maybe (Sonicmage)


Edited by Tattyblue, 02 May 2018 - 12:30 AM.

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#42
Wormerine

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I really can’t predict how much I will be enjoying Deadfire. I expect it to be much better than PoE, but will it be enough? PoE had a benefit of being “the first”, which comes with a lot of forgiveness. I am still shocked how high it was rated - yes, it was a very successful kickstarter (both in funding and delivery), and managed to revive the old genre without feeling stale or dated, but it had many many flaws.

It reminds me of Firaxis XCOM situation. The reboot was a broken mess - it was filled not only with bad design decisions, but gamebreaking bugs, many of which survived expansion and patches. Critics loved it, audience loved it - it was fresh, nostalgic, and any faults it had were overshadowed by how refreshing it was to be playing game like that again. XCOM2 is a far better game, specially with the expansions and while reception has been positive, I noticed critics and fans having a bigger reservation - some design issues were left over, many of the bugs were still present, frustrations with the game were easier to recognise this time around. Instead of fixing core issues, new mechanics were added (stealth/timers), which clashed with elegance of the game and made it easier to notice issues that the game has, rather than removing them.

My point here is, that to me it depends on how much Deadfire will improve upon PoE. Will factions and companions still ring hollow? Will items and combat encounters be forgettable? Will writing have a better pacing and individual story elements flow better together? Luckily, from what we have seen so far, game has been improved a lot and many mechanics have been reinvented, instead of simply expanded upon. From relation ship system, to ship exploration and combat, the game seems to be filled with fresh ideas, which should give Deadfire its own identity. While I don’t like every change mechanicly Deadfire looks solid. Story wise we didn’t see much, but usually that’s Obsidians the strong suit. I am convinced it is worth a buy, but have no idea if It will end up in my RPG pedestal.
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#43
master guardian

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In the beginning the forum will sing its praises as is their usual play. But the metacritic rating will not exceed or match Pillars (89). Nor will its steam rating be as high (85% positive)

 

A game can change its setting, it can change its tone, it can change its mechanics, but it will lose fans when it does all 3 in its very next sequel. Many non super fans who did not follow it for weeks or months on end will not understand the need for changes on many mechanics. They will be looking for pillars and will be getting something very different. Many of the reviewers like IGN will probably punish the game's review score for the change in tone.

 

I feel like sales will be similar to the first game but it will not grow the IP in popularity. In the start the game will be great for the beta super fans (Boeroer) who will love it no matter what, and it will be mediocre to the people who liked Pillars but do not like all the changes (myself). I dont think anyone will think its bad well maybe (Sonicmage)

 

I think you have jumped the gun a bit here. You are speaking as though you have a crystal ball witch you obviously dont. 

 

From what i can tell the only noticeable changes are the casting system and resting (mainly how resting affects casting).

 

Yes i do wish they left casting alone but i may possibly be thinking that way because " I would rather stick with what i know", eg now i have to go through the hassle of relearning the casting system again and finding out how it works best. This will take time and could be considered work that i wouldn't have to do had they not changed the casting system hence why im pissed off.

 

Only time will tell if i am happy with the new changes. Even after playing the BETA my mind is not entirely made up on the new changes.

 

Having said that i cant see OBS going backwards with this. They have definitely improved on the narrative, graphics and not included stupid mistakes like they did in pillars one with that second "big " city that was a complete flop. They will have one big "Athkatla" style city now.

 

In my humble opinion what will make Deadfire will be the story and narrative. Will it be as immersive as BG2. This will be the absolute test.


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#44
Boeroer

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Speaking of super fan:

You obviously didn't read my critical posts when the beta came out... I mean Gromnir screamed "hyperbole" more than once... ;)

And while beta4 is a lot better than beta1 (and one had time to adapt and shake off some nostalgia) also my newest posts weren't full of praise. There's stuff I like a lot and stuff where I think a change was uncalled for or simply for the worse.

I just think that voting Deadfire down only because Obsidian tries to balance things and removes OP mechanics is a bit silly.
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#45
Wormerine

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A game can change its setting, it can change its tone, it can change its mechanics, but it will lose fans when it does all 3 in its very next sequel. Many non super fans who did not follow it for weeks or months on end will not understand the need for changes on many mechanics.

As I have written my post, while you were writing yours, I can’t help but notice how far our philosophies of what we want from a sequel differ:-).

I am curious to see how well your predictions will be. Another common narrative was Obsidian dumbing down the game in order to appease wider audience of PoE, with removal of health/endurance, smaller party, per encounter casting. It’s a complete rubbish, of course, but unless critics and audience are hardcore fans who want PoE to be as much like D&D2nd I doubt the changes will bother them. Overall, you make it sound as if Deadfire moved a lot from what PoE was - it plays very much the same, from little of what we have seen, the world, characters and quests seem to be very consistent with what PoE1 was. The difference is in finer detail, and while everyone will notice a more tropical setting, I wonder how many people will really see much difference in design changes.

#46
daven

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I hope it's pretty good, but come on it's a piece of entertainment at the end of the day. People make out as if it's some life changing event when a certain game or movie comes out.

 

Don't take these things so seriously folks!



#47
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Name a post-Morrowind Elder Scrolls game that didn't change tone, setting, combat systems from one game to the next.  I am not saying that those changes made the franchise better, but the press and masses love them.  So, I don't think that is the issue.

 

I would worry more about class balance at launch, and whether the narrative hook is good enough.


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#48
hilfazer

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I just think that voting Deadfire down only because Obsidian tries to balance things and removes OP mechanics is a bit silly.

 

Maybe, but if this balancing is making game more boring and less worth exploring (bye bye Backlash Bedlam) then i can understand voting down.



#49
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Man that nerf to the Bedlam still stings...!

#50
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So the whole game turned bad all of a sudden because one single build option that was unarguably overpowered is impossible now? Guys...

And it's me who's asking that (rethorical question) - the guy who posted that build in the first place.

Leaving that option in would just lead to a game where everybody who wants to play a melee cipher plays a retaliation cipher. So boring. The game gets actually better once you nerf such things. Just a tiny bit, but better balance makes a game better overall. You just have to let go of that (in this case nonsensical) feeling of loss to see it.

Just a sidenote: it's Backlash Beldam (like hag or old woman), not Bedlam (like chaos). :)
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#51
HAWmaro

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So the whole game turned bad all of a sudden because one single build option that was unarguably overpowered is impossible now? Guys...

And it's me who's asking that (rethorical question) - the guy who posted that build in the first place.

Leaving that option in would just lead to a game where everybody who wants to play a melee cipher plays a retaliation cipher. So boring. The game gets actually better once you nerf such things. Just a tiny bit, but better balance makes a game better overall. You just have to let go of that (in this case nonsensical) feeling of loss to see it.

Just a sidenote: it's Backlash Beldam (like hag or old woman), not Bedlam (like chaos). :)

Just curious, can you link the build in question, might try it this week while waiting for launch.



#52
hilfazer

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So the whole game turned bad all of a sudden because one single build option that was unarguably overpowered is impossible now? Guys...

And it's me who's asking that (rethorical question) - the guy who posted that build in the first place.

Leaving that option in would just lead to a game where everybody who wants to play a melee cipher plays a retaliation cipher. So boring. The game gets actually better once you nerf such things. Just a tiny bit, but better balance makes a game better overall. You just have to let go of that (in this case nonsensical) feeling of loss to see it.

Just a sidenote: it's Backlash Beldam (like hag or old woman), not Bedlam (like chaos). :)

 

Didn't you say this build is 'not that strong'?

Please google yourfavouritebrowser "example".

 

Do you think destroying Driving Flight + Stunning Shots would improve the game? Honest question, i'm curious.

What about excluding spells from Wildstrike making casters even worse at multiclassing?

 

"everybody who wants to play a melee cipher plays a retaliation cipher"

Playing UP options can be fun too (if a game is single player that is, in MP PvP game you'd be destroyed). I've played Underrail with one of the weakest builds and i had IMMENSE amount of fun.

Game can be as unbalanced as BG2 and still "best PC cRPG evah" (check Metacritic). Game doesn't need so much balance to be good.

Developing single player game is a luxury Obsidian doesn't want to take advantage of.



#53
Daled

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I've just come to the realization that some people really like "I WIN" buttons and shortcuts that took away choices. Pretty depressing.


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#54
Wormerine

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I've just come to the realization that some people really like "I WIN" buttons and shortcuts that took away choices. Pretty depressing.

I don't like those in games, but I would love one in real life. 


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#55
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Didn't you say this build is 'not that strong'?

No - well I said it wasn't overly powerful. I did so right after the nerf, but that was the disappointment speaking because I put a lot of work into playing and writing that stuff and suddenly it was gone. Here's what I wrote after some time when I had a chance to think about it:

Hi. To be honest it's a massive nerf. But I also have to say that this "exploitation" of retaliation was maybe too powerful and broke the balance more than most other tricks did. So, it's still a viable combination to use weapon & shield for a cipher. And the cipher still has nice powers like Psychovampiric Shield and Pain Link which make this tanky build worthwhile. Some good powers like Antipathetic Field and Mind Lance work best from the front line.

It was quite powerful and maybe a case where there's different opinions.

But nobody complained when they nerfed the Jolting Touch/Carnage mechanics. That was clearly OP and when it got removed the game was better.

Do you think destroying Driving Flight + Stunning Shots would improve the game?

That depends. If it would make other multiclass options for monk strictly inferior then of course it would be better for the game if that was nerfed. But I doubt that this is gamebreaking. Stunning SHots get paid by Mortification which is not endless - so no endless spamming. That's just nice to have.
Another example: you can still use Kalakoth's Minor Blights + One Handed Style + Swift Flurry to one-shot whole groups of enemies. One shot and everybody in range is dead. That IS gamebreakingly overpowered and needs a nerf. The game would be better without this. Sure, it's fun for a few times but it gets very boring to enter the map, rally up the enemies and do the *pouf-they-are-gone* action.

Same goes for the afflicton + Blast in Deadfire. It was nerfed because the rod would be too powerful and the weapons unbalanced if you'd leave that in. Might be that it was not gamebreaking, but the game hardly got worse because of this nerf.

I've played Underrail with one of the weakest builds and i had IMMENSE amount of fun.

I've played Baskeball against 5-year olds and for about 10 minutes I had IMMENSE amounts of fun because I was so OP. After that it got pretty lame though...

I played Basketball against Gunther Behnke and friends and I had IMMENSE amounts of fun although I was really bad compared to them - but every point felt like a huge victory - but I wouldn't want to play like that all the time.

It's totally possible to play a game with OP or UP builds and for some it may be even fun to do so longer than a few hours.

The statement that I questioned was that the game is bad because balancing happens.
And I didn't say that a game is bad if balancing does not happen.

Both statements are balderdash in my opinion.

Edited by Boeroer, 02 May 2018 - 05:24 AM.

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#56
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Speaking of super fan:

You obviously didn't read my critical posts when the beta came out... I mean Gromnir screamed "hyperbole" more than once... ;)

 

point o' personal privilege: you would be hard pressed to find an exclamation point in a Gromnir post save for our traditional send-off line.  so "scream" might be an example o', well, hyperbole.  accuse us o' being condescending, arrogant and dismissive would not shock us as is the typical litany we see and is some support for such accusations.  have also been accused o' being "cold" more than once.  mean?  frequent.

 

eye wink aside *insert eye roll here* am thinking boeroer would indeed benefit from a smidge o' self reflection as his game observations would be more convincing with a bit less "super fan."  

 

now feel free to go back to... well, am honest not certain what is happening with this thread's last half page or so, but feel free to return to it. 

 

HA! Good Fun!


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#57
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Maybe it was a silent scream...
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#58
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makes us wonder if boeroer is actual aimee mann.

 

if so, belated apologies. it were the early 90s and we were a bit less mature and we shouldn't have ghosted you as we did.

 

HA! Good Fun!


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#59
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makes us wonder if boeroer is actual aimee mann.

 

if so, belated apologies. it were the early 90s and we were a bit less mature and we shouldn't have ghosted you as we did.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

So... the catchphrase is meant to be post-coital?



#60
Boeroer

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makes us wonder if boeroer is actual aimee mann.

 

if so, belated apologies. it were the early 90s and we were a bit less mature and we shouldn't have ghosted you as we did.

 

HA! Good Fun!

So you were that guy in the ocherous bathrobe who wanted to show me his "young snake"? And I was like:

aimee-mann-85.jpg


Edited by Boeroer, 02 May 2018 - 09:19 AM.

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