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How good, mediocre or plain bad will Deadfire be?

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#21
Ganrich

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I remember when PoE1 came out everyone was saying they hope it's as good as BG2. I said "these guys just built the tools, assets, and pipeline for this game and I doubt BG2 is a reachable possibility. It took Bioware making their tools and what not while building BG and TotSC before BG2 happened. I expect BG1 levels of quality."

In the end, I like Poe a great deal. Its pretty close to BG1 in quality. It isnt perfect, but neither was BG or BG2 for that matter. I expect Deadfire to be a pretty solid jump in quality from PoE1, and systems wise I believe the beta has shown that jump. If the story telling and other systems make a similar jump we are in for a heck of a ride. So, my expectations are pretty high this go around.
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#22
grulag

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the beta was great, so this will be pretty darn good!


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#23
Fluffle

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I remember when PoE1 came out everyone was saying they hope it's as good as BG2. I said "these guys just built the tools, assets, and pipeline for this game and I doubt BG2 is a reachable possibility. It took Bioware making their tools and what not while building BG and TotSC before BG2 happened. I expect BG1 levels of quality."

In the end, I like Poe a great deal. Its pretty close to BG1 in quality. It isnt perfect, but neither was BG or BG2 for that matter. I expect Deadfire to be a pretty solid jump in quality from PoE1, and systems wise I believe the beta has shown that jump. If the story telling and other systems make a similar jump we are in for a heck of a ride. So, my expectations are pretty high this go around.

 

And based on that, I would expect Deadfire to be what BG2 was for BG1, if not even better ;)

I have very high expectations. I know that the higher the expectations the easier I can be disappointed. But in this case I feel like my high expectations are justified and there's a good change they'll be met.


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#24
Ganrich

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I remember when PoE1 came out everyone was saying they hope it's as good as BG2. I said "these guys just built the tools, assets, and pipeline for this game and I doubt BG2 is a reachable possibility. It took Bioware making their tools and what not while building BG and TotSC before BG2 happened. I expect BG1 levels of quality."

In the end, I like Poe a great deal. Its pretty close to BG1 in quality. It isnt perfect, but neither was BG or BG2 for that matter. I expect Deadfire to be a pretty solid jump in quality from PoE1, and systems wise I believe the beta has shown that jump. If the story telling and other systems make a similar jump we are in for a heck of a ride. So, my expectations are pretty high this go around.


And based on that, I would expect Deadfire to be what BG2 was for BG1, if not even better ;)

I have very high expectations. I know that the higher the expectations the easier I can be disappointed. But in this case I feel like my high expectations are justified and there's a good change they'll be met.

One can hope. This won't be BG2, though. It has elements from too many other games to retread BG2. The map travel system that is similar to Fallout 1, Arcanum, or Storm of Zehir, for instance. Just without random encounters that had a tendency to come with those travel systems.

It wont be all stemming from a single city hub like BG2. Although, it seems that they learned that having a single major city is better than trying to make two. However, how BG 2 limited exploration outside of Athkattla was something I didnt care for. Deadfire will have exploration, a more consolidated city, and hopefully wont be spread too thin like PoE1. Not to mention the increased importance of factions. I hope it definitely is closer to BG2 in narrative quality, companions, and so on.

I still dont expect BG2 is all I'm saying. I expect a vastly different game that could be a little worse or in its own way a little better. IMHO, it will be better than PoE1, and it may be an instant classic, but it will hinge on Narrative quality. The combat system is top notch for RtwP, IMHO. If the narrative and exploration is equally improved, and works for the players, then it will be great.

As a bonus we are getting a bunch of new Justin Bell tracks, and the music in PoE IMHO was absolutely my favorite part. He nailed the IE music vibe while making the music work for the world Obsidian created. He made the IE music style his own in a way. And that is a tall task to ask anyone. I take more Justin Bell music as an absolute win win.
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#25
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Oh no, I wasn't saying that I was expecting Deadfire to be a Baldur's Gate 2. No, if I wanted to play a game like Baldur's Gate 2 then I would play... Baldur's Gate 2! But I want to play Deadfire!

I was referring to the enhancement of Baldur's Gate 2 in comparison to Baldur's Gate 1. And I don't mean that I expect specific enhancements from Baldur's Gate 2 to be found in Deadfire (with one exception*). I was referring to the scale upon which Baldur's Gate 1 was improved and expanded upon by Baldur's Gate 2.

 

And I would expect something similar for Deadfire. I expect it to be an improved and expanded version of PoE on a large scale.

 

*the one exception that is coming to mind is the relationship system. That is one aspect that Baldur's Gate 2 heavily improved upon from Baldur's Gate 1. And I think with the introduction of the relationship system, Deadfire will do something similar for PoE.


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#26
Big-Ben

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The biggest changes I remember from Baldur's Gate to Shadows of Amn was how much the mechanics improved. Things were more in depth but not outwardly hostile towards my young self (I was a lad of thirteen or fourteen when I first played.) and I welcomed these additions.

 

Josh has stated that the first Pillars was built upon nostalgia and that rings pretty true in my mind. It's a familiar setting (And that's not a criticism mind you) and it felt good to be playing a game like this again. But like all sequels a copy paste job doesn't cut it and I'm looking on seeing things expanded. This includes interaction with characters (Varying from like/dislike mechanics to possible relations with a thirsty sword) and things like better combat encounters with a myriad of new tools to accomplish said encounters. 


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#27
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I hope this game is good. I never liked Baldur's Gate 2, it was very depressing and sad for me. My favorite companion Imoen went from,"Heya, It's me Imoen your frrriiieeennd!" To "Everything sucks, Life sucks, I am depressed :(". The loss of Jaheira's Husband was just cruel, also the torture that Imoen, minsc, and Jaheira had to go through was just evil! 

 

Baldur's Gate 2 took such a nasty and depressing turn. Now I'm not saying it was a bad game or anything; I'm just saying that I disliked the overly depressing tone. Baldur's Gate 1 had so much charm and humor to it. For example the stupid NPCs' and their bombastic quotes; My favorties," I serve the Flamming Fist!" Or " Heya Heya Heya Heya".

 

I have feeling that Pillars of Eternity 2 is going to be depressing, I just hope it isn't THAT depressing. Anyways sorry for the rant. 



#28
Ganrich

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I hope this game is good. I never liked Baldur's Gate 2, it was very depressing and sad for me. My favorite companion Imoen went from,"Heya, It's me Imoen your frrriiieeennd!" To "Everything sucks, Life sucks, I am depressed :(". The loss of Jaheira's Husband was just cruel, also the torture that Imoen, minsc, and Jaheira had to go through was just evil! 

 

Baldur's Gate 2 took such a nasty and depressing turn. Now I'm not saying it was a bad game or anything; I'm just saying that I disliked the overly depressing tone. Baldur's Gate 1 had so much charm and humor to it. For example the stupid NPCs' and their bombastic quotes; My favorties," I serve the Flamming Fist!" Or " Heya Heya Heya Heya".

 

I have feeling that Pillars of Eternity 2 is going to be depressing, I just hope it isn't THAT depressing. Anyways sorry for the rant. 

 

Fear not.  The devs have said that PoE1 was more dark than they intended.  Animancy being the bane of all Eora was apparent in many PoE 1 quests, and they are going to show its good sides in Deadfire.  We won't have Hollowborns all over, and no trees full of corpses.  I expect the tone of this game to be much lighter, but serious when it needs to be.  I don't think it will be goofy like NWN2 OC could be, but it won't be as dark as the PoE1.  Though some PoE1 companions may have some negative outcomes if they make an appearance... that depends largely on how you left them in PoE1 and if they even show up. 


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#29
Voss

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Oh no, I wasn't saying that I was expecting Deadfire to be a Baldur's Gate 2. No, if I wanted to play a game like Baldur's Gate 2 then I would play... Baldur's Gate 2! But I want to play Deadfire!

I was referring to the enhancement of Baldur's Gate 2 in comparison to Baldur's Gate 1. And I don't mean that I expect specific enhancements from Baldur's Gate 2 to be found in Deadfire (with one exception*). I was referring to the scale upon which Baldur's Gate 1 was improved and expanded upon by Baldur's Gate 2.

I think the big difference is bg1->2 involved adding a handful of things, like subclasses and higher levels. 

PoE1->2 involves complete reworks of entire subsystems (armor, particularly), and a lot of timing and resource changes, and a great deal of tinkering that the BG series didn't have, since it had to stay 2nd edition AD&D.  That isn't necessarily a BAD thing for Deadfire, but it is a significantly different process for the sequel.

 

Some very important thing are effectively starting from scratch in terms of development.


Edited by Voss, 01 May 2018 - 05:40 PM.


#30
Big-Ben

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I think any plot involving children dying can't really escape accusations of morbidity. I don't believe that Obsidian intended it to be grotesque in any exploitative way but no one here can deny that very bad things have happened before and during the game. Dead children isn't any fun, ever.

 

Certainly though we all must agree that a plot about Eothas messing you up and you chasing after him is most certainly a lighter plot than the first game!  No doubt we'll meet our share of unsavory characters but again I trust Obsidian to not delve into exploitation.

 

We all want that talking sword though am I right?


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#31
injurai

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Who knows if this will live up to people's conception of BG2, I bet it will set some new standards though and will be a yardstick for years to come. Might just end up was the BG2 for a new generation of crpgs fans.


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#32
Voss

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I think any plot involving children dying can't really escape accusations of morbidity. I don't believe that Obsidian intended it to be grotesque in any exploitative way but no one here can deny that very bad things have happened before and during the game. Dead children isn't any fun, ever.

 

Certainly though we all must agree that a plot about Eothas messing you up and you chasing after him is most certainly a lighter plot than the first game!  No doubt we'll meet our share of unsavory characters but again I trust Obsidian to not delve into exploitation.

 

We all want that talking sword though am I right?

Nope.

 

Anyway, dead and feral kids aside, the Dyrwood was pretty full of GrimDerp.  Any average citizen was likely to be 1) involved in religious persecution, 2)anti-intellectual and/or 3) a racist bigot (both in terms of other species and other cultures), and of course the player's... quarry, for lack of a better term

Spoiler
  PoE1 made BG2's beginning seem downright cheerful.  Every new significant area is largely another layer of horrible, and it generally isn't 'evils to fight in a heroic idiom' kind of horrible.  More institutionalized normality of badness that Joe Average Dyrwoodan (as laid out by Eder, Mr. Number Nineteen) just hang around and wait for it to happen to them.  And the natives and the ancients aren't any better (actually worse, once you delve into their background and Red Sands)

 

 

Honestly though, the beta content doesn't strike me as Deadfire being particularly lighter in tone. Polynesian caricatures aside, what's going on is fairly horrible and exploitative, in a very classic-cliche style for the Age of Sail. With bonus fantasy soul atrocities. 


Edited by Voss, 01 May 2018 - 05:59 PM.


#33
DragonWiz

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I hope this game is good. I never liked Baldur's Gate 2, it was very depressing and sad for me. My favorite companion Imoen went from,"Heya, It's me Imoen your frrriiieeennd!" To "Everything sucks, Life sucks, I am depressed :(". The loss of Jaheira's Husband was just cruel, also the torture that Imoen, minsc, and Jaheira had to go through was just evil! 

 

Baldur's Gate 2 took such a nasty and depressing turn. Now I'm not saying it was a bad game or anything; I'm just saying that I disliked the overly depressing tone. Baldur's Gate 1 had so much charm and humor to it. For example the stupid NPCs' and their bombastic quotes; My favorties," I serve the Flamming Fist!" Or " Heya Heya Heya Heya".

 

I have feeling that Pillars of Eternity 2 is going to be depressing, I just hope it isn't THAT depressing. Anyways sorry for the rant. 

 

Fear not.  The devs have said that PoE1 was more dark than they intended.  Animancy being the bane of all Eora was apparent in many PoE 1 quests, and they are going to show its good sides in Deadfire.  We won't have Hollowborns all over, and no trees full of corpses.  I expect the tone of this game to be much lighter, but serious when it needs to be.  I don't think it will be goofy like NWN2 OC could be, but it won't be as dark as the PoE1.  Though some PoE1 companions may have some negative outcomes if they make an appearance... that depends largely on how you left them in PoE1 and if they even show up. 

 

 

Thank you! This is reassuring to hear. 



#34
Gromnir

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am not making a guess 'bout deadfire quality, but am gonna concede a modicum o' anticipation. 

 

...

 

modicum is perhaps understatement. something akin to the following would be more accurate:

 

https://twitter.com/...568875149824001

 

or 

 

https://twitter.com/...871513959288832

 

HA! Good Fun!


Edited by Gromnir, 01 May 2018 - 07:17 PM.

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#35
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Ug BG2 comparisons.  Spoiler Alert, it will not be BG2.  Let's judge the game based on it's merits, not it's ability to match nostalgia goggles or multiplayer RPG's based on comedy.

As for Codex, it isn't "strong opinions" that is the issue.  It is the completely backwards thinking, spam, and general negativity that is an issue.


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#36
master guardian

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Look at the difference between icewind dale (witch released after BG2) and BG2

 

BG2 :

 

- Story driven

- narrative driven

- companion driven

- huge enormous game 

- able to shape the world around you

 

ICE WIND DALE 1 AND 2:

 

- dungeon orientated

- very combat heavy

- long long long grind

- no companions that impacted narrative

 

The end result:

 

BG2 - the best RPG of all time BY FAR

 

ICEWIND DALE - killed of interest in crpgs until Pillars of Eternity



#37
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I liked Icewind Dale I and also II pretty much. Icewind Dale II is also in the list of the 100 top RPGs of all time at number 76 (while BG is at 35 and BGII at 3 if I remember correctly).


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#38
Fluffle

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Erhm okay again, I only drew the comparison to Baldur's Gate, because I wanted to say that Baldur's Gate 2 expanded upon and improved Baldur's Gate 1.

 

And I think that Deadfire will be expanding upon and improve Pillars of Eternity on a similar scale (that does NOT mean in the very same way!)

 

By no way, did I mean to imply, that Deadfire is going to be like Baldur's Gate 2. And I did NOT mean that Deadfire will bring the exact same improvements that Baldur's Gate 2 had. And while I do love the Baldur's Gate trilogy for what it is, I don't want Deadfire just to try to be a Baldur's Gate 2. I think and I hope and I expect that Deadfire will be able to stand its own ground and maybe it will even become the new reference for this kind of game.


Edited by Fluffle, 01 May 2018 - 11:07 PM.

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#39
daven

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ed


Edited by daven, 01 May 2018 - 11:19 PM.


#40
Knoebroesel

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I have high hopes for Deadfire!

 

I couldn't take part in the beta but I watched 'Let's play!'s and every video or article about it that I could find, and so far I have a very good feeling that Deadfire will indeed deliver on the promises it made.

 

I hope it will improve on Pillars in the same way that Original Sin 2 improved on Original Sin - all the building blocks are there, and now it will be interesting to see what Obsidian did with them. I cannot wait to play it and see for myself! :w00t:

 

... a shame that GOG users cannot preload, though. ;(







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