Rensom Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) Thought I give this a shot since some of these requests seem to get granted/implemented:So... basically what it says on the tin.Not including "Unarmed" in the proficiency selection creates the following issues/contradictions:- a Devoted set up as solely focused on "Unarmed" actually ends up NOT being solely (and primarly) focused on "Unarmed" but on the proficiency to be chosen from the proficiency list during character creation which at the moment DOES NOT include "Unarmed" as a selectable proficiency. Quite the glaring oversight if you ask me.- the "classic" Monk (strictly focused on "Unarmed") is forced to chose proficiencies (since the proficiency selection CANNOT be skipped) during character creation he DOES NOT make use of. Which doesn't feel quite right obviously.This is not ideal at all and I really hope this gets fixed either in the gold build still or via the obilgatory (day one) patch.Official word on this and why exactly it's currently implemented in this stilted "quick and dirty" way would also be greatly appreciated. "UI problems" doesn't really sound like something that couldn't be taken care of in a timely manner. Adding "Unarmed" to the proficiency list to chose from can't possibly be that hard, can it? Edited April 22, 2018 by Rensom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmonocle Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) unarmed is included automatically Edited April 22, 2018 by mrmonocle I see the dreams so marvelously sad The creeks of land so solid and encrusted Where wave and tide against the shore is busted While chanting by the moonlit twilight's bed trees (of Twin Elms) could use more of Magran's touch © Durance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rensom Posted April 22, 2018 Author Share Posted April 22, 2018 I'm aware of that but think it's imperative that "Unarmed" should (also) be actively selectable from the list of proficiencies, mainly for the 2 reasons given in the opening post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunehunter Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) I recommend it in this way: All classes except monk don't get Unarmed Proficiency at lvl 1 but can select it later. Monk automatically gain Unarmed Proficiency at level 1. Devoted must select the devoted weapon in the same UI after he picked weapon proficiencies. (which feels redundant for a non-monk devoted, maybe the system can detect how many proficiency devoted has and automatically select for him if he only has one proficiency). Edited April 23, 2018 by dunehunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedthefreak Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Just make it so Devoted actually is devoted to both unarmed and their weapon of choice, maybe. If we are fishing for solutions, I think that's going to be the easiest and simplest, in terms of implementation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 It probably would be a minor improvement in "feel" if nothing else if people had to actually pick Unarmed proficiency on the proficiency picking screen. If nothing else, it would minimize confusion from people who don't realize they have it already for free, and anyone who wants to pick it probably knows why they want it and most characters get too many proficiency slots anyway so, there seem to be few downsides. I presume they implemented it the way they did in the beta for ~reasons~ though but who knows. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rensom Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) Devoted must select the devoted weapon in the same UI after he picked weapon proficiencies. (which feels redundant for a non-monk devoted, maybe the system can detect how many proficiency devoted has and automatically select for him if he only has one proficiency). Just make it so Devoted actually is devoted to both unarmed and their weapon of choice, maybe. If we are fishing for solutions, I think that's going to be the easiest and simplest, in terms of implementation. But both of these suggested solutions disregard the fact that a Devoted is only able to chose ONE proficiency by definition. You cannot put "Devoted" and _proficiencies_ in the same sentence. With the Unarmed proficiency absent from the proficiency selection during character creation it's currently NOT POSSIBLE to play a Devoted who's strictly and single-mindedly focused on "Unarmed". This kind of Devoted will always end up with the (currently automatically assigned) Unarmed proficiency plus a second proficiency that must be chosen from the list as shown above but an Unarmed-focused Devoted obviously does not make use of. Edited April 23, 2018 by Rensom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madscientist Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I agree that "unarmed" profiency should be selectable on character creation or level up, not automatically. Devoted get only one profiency and monks (or other classes who want to fight unarmed) have to select it when they want to fight unarmed. Except for devoted, nobody gets a penalty for using a weapon without profiency. You can miss some bonusses that work only for profient weapons, but thats part of how profiencies work now. Monastic training is junk at the moment. I suggest the inclusion of fist weapons, like Fallout or PST have it. I mean something like gloves or brass knuckles in a broader sense. PST even had a spell ( something like stone fist, I am not sure ) that increased unarmed damage for some time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madscientist Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 @Rensom: Maybe "unarmed" is not considered a weapon and so devoted have 2 profiencies but only 1 weapon profiency. Anyway, I think you should not get unarmed profiency automatically and you have to select it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rensom Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 @Rensom: Maybe "unarmed" is not considered a weapon and so devoted have 2 profiencies but only 1 weapon profiency. But it looks like it is(?) - otherwise it wouldn't be listed under "Weapon Proficiencies" in the character sheet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madscientist Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 OK, you got a point. Being able to read is always a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 The weird thing is, why did they give it to everyone automatically instead of adding it to the weapon proficiency menu like everything else? There must have been some kind of reason -- maybe an art asset or something? Maybe something technical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinister Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I think this may be by design. Devoted + Monk focus on unarmed might not be balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drchocapic Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I think this may be by design. Devoted + Monk focus on unarmed might not be balanced. Heh I don't know, a lot of things aren't exactly balanced yet available at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinister Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 I think this may be by design. Devoted + Monk focus on unarmed might not be balanced. Heh I don't know, a lot of things aren't exactly balanced yet available at the moment. Point taken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George_Truman Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 To create more imbalance because imbalance exists already instead of fixing existing imbalance seems like questionable design philosophy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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