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Critical Role, Meet Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire


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#41
molotov.

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Great cast!

Now it’s time for ... SAMPLES! :D

On an unrelated note—have Aloth’s and Xoti’s portraits changed since they were first shown?

Yes, they appear to be younger now and they have also changed Ydwin portraits 2 times by now... uh... a lot of work for a sidekick don't you think?


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#42
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You mean she will eventually be upgraded to roundhousekick? ;)


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#43
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Yes, they appear to be younger now and they have also changed Ydwin portraits 2 times by now... uh... a lot of work for a sidekick don't you think?

Xoti and Ydwin probably got changed because of prettied up 4chan versions of portraits debate and man-chin hate in portraits thread. New portraits, especially Ydwin, look much better now, so it's all good whatever the reason.


Edited by Aramintai, 17 April 2018 - 12:09 PM.

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#44
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Yeah, even before this and seeing the character voice actors/bios, I definitely see a strong possibility of Eothas joining the party. It could make for very interesting conversations between Eder, PC Eothasian Priest and Eothas himself.
Eder: "So.... about trying to kill you... let bygones be bygones right?..."

Reminds me how Sarevok joins your party in BG2 after being the big bad guy in part 1.


Eothas: A soul similar to yours fought among my own...were you at least properly welcomed home?

Eder: well...they baked me a cake, tried to kill me afterwards but man that was a good cake.

😄


Yeah, even before this and seeing the character voice actors/bios, I definitely see a strong possibility of Eothas joining the party. It could make for very interesting conversations between Eder, PC Eothasian Priest and Eothas himself.
Eder: "So.... about trying to kill you... let bygones be bygones right?..."

Reminds me how Sarevok joins your party in BG2 after being the big bad guy in part 1.



Eothas joins your party *as your ship*

He floats on his back and you just attach the sails to his . . . . arm

I think The Watcher just wants cuddles. Sitting on the Steward of Caed Nua's lap in the keep, now this
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#45
Voices of Nerat

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Ashley Johnson :thumbsup:


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#46
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Great cast!

Now it’s time for ... SAMPLES! :D

On an unrelated note—have Aloth’s and Xoti’s portraits changed since they were first shown?

Yes, they appear to be younger now and they have also changed Ydwin portraits 2 times by now... uh... a lot of work for a sidekick don't you think?

I kind of agree this is very strange.  For one thing we know there was a major push to make Ydwin a full companion, and there has been multiple points on the forums where people were confused about the difference between a sidekick and companion and said things like "why even use a sidekick if you have full companions or full custom?"  It was like they were a so so middle ground.

Meanwhile Obsidian is using this as a big announcement and to push more sales, which it seems to have worked.  We don't know how well it has worked, but it has definitely had a positive effect.

So if Critical Roles inclusion is such a big deal, and good enough to be an actual selling point for the game... why would you give a smaller sidekick role to two of them?  Also why is there so much focus on Rekke and Ydwin who both have actually had almost as much coverage as full companions at this point.  In fact, didn't Ydwin get a full on character reveal, before some of the "full companions"?

If this were Denmark I would definitely be smelling the fish market, if you feel me.


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#47
algroth

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Great cast!

Now it’s time for ... SAMPLES! :D

On an unrelated note—have Aloth’s and Xoti’s portraits changed since they were first shown?

Yes, they appear to be younger now and they have also changed Ydwin portraits 2 times by now... uh... a lot of work for a sidekick don't you think?

I kind of agree this is very strange.  For one thing we know there was a major push to make Ydwin a full companion, and there has been multiple points on the forums where people were confused about the difference between a sidekick and companion and said things like "why even use a sidekick if you have full companions or full custom?"  It was like they were a so so middle ground.

Meanwhile Obsidian is using this as a big announcement and to push more sales, which it seems to have worked.  We don't know how well it has worked, but it has definitely had a positive effect.

So if Critical Roles inclusion is such a big deal, and good enough to be an actual selling point for the game... why would you give a smaller sidekick role to two of them?  Also why is there so much focus on Rekke and Ydwin who both have actually had almost as much coverage as full companions at this point.  In fact, didn't Ydwin get a full on character reveal, before some of the "full companions"?

If this were Denmark I would definitely be smelling the fish market, if you feel me.

 

 

Mere speculation from my part, but whilst I believe the chances for them to have been secretly expanded into full companions is extremely low, I could see more content being planned for them come the DLCs, which might better make use of those cast members. Also I don't think these roles cover the extent of the Critical Role cast in the game so maybe their relatively small role as sidekicks could be balanced out with a beefier NPC role the likes of a faction leader? Some thoughts.


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#48
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Yes, they appear to be younger now and they have also changed Ydwin portraits 2 times by now... uh... a lot of work for a sidekick don't you think?

Xoti and Ydwin probably got changed because of prettied up 4chan versions of portraits debate and man-chin hate in portraits thread. New portraits, especially Ydwin, look much better now, so it's all good whatever the reason.

 

I dunno. Xoti looks better now I think, and not just because she's younger and prettier but because they fixed a perspective error with her hood and cheeks. But if they were just following the 4chan version she'd look a lot more Caucasian, and be wearing makeup. If anything, she seems to have turned into an (east) Indian. And didn't steal the 4chan version's lipgloss.

 

Kind of a shame for me though, the only 4chan version I thought was an improvement over the official one was Pallegina's, and hers hasn't changed.

 

And yeah I'd be shocked if these characters were the only ones the Critical Role cast are voicing. Pretty sure the Woedican paladin in that one stream was Laura Bailey, for one thing.


Edited by The Sharmat, 18 April 2018 - 07:58 PM.


#49
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Great cast!

Now it’s time for ... SAMPLES! :D

On an unrelated note—have Aloth’s and Xoti’s portraits changed since they were first shown?

Yes, they appear to be younger now and they have also changed Ydwin portraits 2 times by now... uh... a lot of work for a sidekick don't you think?

I kind of agree this is very strange.  For one thing we know there was a major push to make Ydwin a full companion, and there has been multiple points on the forums where people were confused about the difference between a sidekick and companion and said things like "why even use a sidekick if you have full companions or full custom?"  It was like they were a so so middle ground.

Meanwhile Obsidian is using this as a big announcement and to push more sales, which it seems to have worked.  We don't know how well it has worked, but it has definitely had a positive effect.

So if Critical Roles inclusion is such a big deal, and good enough to be an actual selling point for the game... why would you give a smaller sidekick role to two of them?  Also why is there so much focus on Rekke and Ydwin who both have actually had almost as much coverage as full companions at this point.  In fact, didn't Ydwin get a full on character reveal, before some of the "full companions"?

If this were Denmark I would definitely be smelling the fish market, if you feel me.

 

Ydwin was the only sidekick to have a full body reveal - it's on Pillars of Eternity facebook -, and also Josh talks a lot about Rekke on live Q&As. He stated, on his last Q&A, that we will get to know the reason to why Rekke is the way he is and, to me, that was quite strange, why give a closure or a character development this huge for a sidekick?

Have you guys realized that the other two sidekicks don't even get mentioned by Josh or the team that much and none of the critical role artists are making V.O. for them?

The plot tickens...


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#50
Skazz

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Ydwin was the only sidekick to have a full body reveal - it's on Pillars of Eternity facebook -, and also Josh talks a lot about Rekke on live Q&As. He stated, on his last Q&A, that we will get to know the reason to why Rekke is the way he is and, to me, that was quite strange, why give a closure or a character development this huge for a sidekick?

Have you guys realized that the other two sidekicks don't even get mentioned by Josh or the team that much and none of the critical role artists are making V.O. for them?

The plot tickens...

 

 

Not to knock on Rekke and any potential arcs that he may have, but I was under the impression that he was supposed to be Deadfire's Chewbacca.
 

And by that, I mean that it's much easier to write extra material for a guy who literally cannot communicate with the rest of the cast. :p


Edited by Skazz, 19 April 2018 - 05:40 AM.


#51
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Ydwin was the only sidekick to have a full body reveal - it's on Pillars of Eternity facebook -, and also Josh talks a lot about Rekke on live Q&As. He stated, on his last Q&A, that we will get to know the reason to why Rekke is the way he is and, to me, that was quite strange, why give a closure or a character development this huge for a sidekick?

Have you guys realized that the other two sidekicks don't even get mentioned by Josh or the team that much and none of the critical role artists are making V.O. for them?

The plot tickens...

 

 

Not to knock on Rekke and any potential arcs that he may have, but I was under the impression that he was supposed to be Deadfire's Chewbacca.
 

And by that, I mean that it's much easier to write extra material for a guy who literally cannot communicate with the rest of the cast. :p

 

You think it's easier to write something for a character that speaks a different language?

I think it's far harder to write something that can't be communicated through words, let me explain myself. His arc will have to receive more details and attention because he can't just reveal his story by speaking, he will have to find a different way to communicate that, learning our language perhaps? Or even painting? So basically I think it will be more difficult because the writer can't just dump lore on our faces with a wall of text, he will have to show that in other way... again... a lot of work for a sidekick.

And hey... the team talk about Ydwin and Rekke so much that you people don't even know the name of the other two sidekicks. Don't google it. 



#52
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 You think it's easier to write something for a character that speaks a different language?


I think it's far harder to write something that can't be communicated through words, let me explain myself. His arc will have to receive more details and attention because he can't just reveal his story by speaking, he will have to find a different way to communicate that, learning our language perhaps? Or even painting? So basically I think it will be more difficult because the writer can't just dump lore on our faces with a wall of text, he will have to show that in other way... again... a lot of work for a sidekick.

 

You're right, but the thing is... do we know that? I don't really follow the streams too often, so I apologize if I'm wrong right off the bat, but I feel confident enough to say that - right now - we don't know for sure whether any of that will happen. Is what you're describing really the case here?

 

On another note, I'd like to point out that I didn't mean to disparage Obsidian's writers and/or their skill in handling such a character. It was more of a lighthearted joke than anything else. Still, I also think that it's a stretch to attribute some arcane complexity to Rekke solely on the basis of him speaking a different language - a language constructed entirely by the developer of the game that no one else has means to understand or analyze in-depth. For all we know, they might as well go full KoTOR route and insert monosyllabic looped growls and sound bytes instead of words. (They won't, but it'd be fun.)

 

I'm not an expert by any means, but I'd imagine there's a lot of things that a writer has to keep track of when they're writing stuff in English: things like consistent register, vocabulary, verbal mannerisms, that kind of stuff. You know, all the little rules to make your character sound and feel a certain way. And all I meant to say is that when you're the person making these rules in the first place, there's a lot you can get away with with relatively little effort.

 

Which of course doesn't mean that I hate Rekke or that he will suck, no. I'm sure he'll be a good character. :yes:


Edited by Skazz, 19 April 2018 - 06:56 AM.


#53
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Ydwin was the only sidekick to have a full body reveal - it's on Pillars of Eternity facebook -, and also Josh talks a lot about Rekke on live Q&As. He stated, on his last Q&A, that we will get to know the reason to why Rekke is the way he is and, to me, that was quite strange, why give a closure or a character development this huge for a sidekick?

Have you guys realized that the other two sidekicks don't even get mentioned by Josh or the team that much and none of the critical role artists are making V.O. for them?

The plot tickens...

 

 

Not to knock on Rekke and any potential arcs that he may have, but I was under the impression that he was supposed to be Deadfire's Chewbacca.
 

And by that, I mean that it's much easier to write extra material for a guy who literally cannot communicate with the rest of the cast. :p

 

You think it's easier to write something for a character that speaks a different language?

I think it's far harder to write something that can't be communicated through words, let me explain myself. His arc will have to receive more details and attention because he can't just reveal his story by speaking, he will have to find a different way to communicate that, learning our language perhaps? Or even painting? So basically I think it will be more difficult because the writer can't just dump lore on our faces with a wall of text, he will have to show that in other way... again... a lot of work for a sidekick.

And hey... the team talk about Ydwin and Rekke so much that you people don't even know the name of the other two sidekicks. Don't google it. 

 

Konstanten and Fessina - very unfortunate name.

I don't really understand why is has to be "either/or" - you can either have a sidekick with non-existent content or a companion with a doorstopper amount of stuff. Why can't Ydwin for example have - lets say - Viconia (or more realistically - Aerie) amount of content? From modern perspective, Viconia wasn't particurally complex mechanics-wise. Her character development/ romance was great but very linear - with a simple binary choice based on a point score from ABC test she assigned your CHARNAME that changed her alignment. Her interactions with other companions were static - she either likes them, or not - and limited to simple interjections or banter. And she had no character quest whatsoever. But she had a lot of quality conversations with a player character and that's why people found her awesome. It's a easy and cheap way to create companions, modders were creating additional BG 2 companions on a similar template for ages now, and for free, in their spare time. And, yes, PoE worked on an identical template. I don't see why Obsidian can't cook up something similar with Ydwin or Rekke - companions that have decent amount of quality but linear content limited to player character that develops throughout the game (friendship path, romance path, rivalry path) and memorable but static relationships with other companions. It would at the very least make sidekicks worth it to take into party for more than 5 minutes. And it would even make use of Ashley Johnsons' and Sam Riegels' talent. But that's just me being armchair developer. Apologies if I restate the point someone else already made.


Edited by aksrasjel, 19 April 2018 - 07:15 AM.


#54
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Konstanten and Fessina - very unfortunate name.
I don't really understand why is has to be "either/or" - you can either have a sidekick with non-existent content or a companion with a doorstopper amount of stuff. Why can't Ydwin for example have - lets say - Viconia (or more realistically - Aerie) amount of content? From modern perspective, Viconia wasn't particurally complex mechanics-wise. Her character development/ romance was great but very linear - with a simple binary choice based on a point score from ABC test she assigned your CHARNAME that changed her alignment. Her interactions with other companions were static - she either likes them, or not - and limited to simple interjections or banter. And she had no character quest whatsoever. But she had a lot of quality conversations with a player character and that's why people found her awesome. It's a easy and cheap way to create companions, modders were creating additional BG 2 companions on a similar template for ages now, and for free, in their spare time. And, yes, PoE worked on an identical template. I don't see why Obsidian can't cook up something similar with Ydwin or Rekke - companions that have decent amount of quality but linear content limited to player character that develops throughout the game (friendship path, romance path, rivalry path) and memorable but static relationships with other companions. It would at the very least make sidekicks worth it to take into party for more than 5 minutes. And it would even make use of Ashley Johnsons' and Sam Riegels' talent. But that's just me being armchair developer. Apologies if I restate the point someone else already made.

The thing with unflexible path is that your relationship with character would get heavily defined for a get go. I feel like doing a weak relationship would be worse than not doing it at all, when compared to companions with the relationship system. There is nothing cheap about companions. Josh said that creating character arc is the big, time consuming part of writing the companion. I would also have little ingame interaction than have a poor quiality content aka. BB:EE or mods. In past he compared sidekicks to Minsc - cool characters to tag along but dont develop and dont have character arc.

Edited by Wormerine, 19 April 2018 - 07:43 AM.

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#55
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Konstanten and Fessina - very unfortunate name.
I don't really understand why is has to be "either/or" - you can either have a sidekick with non-existent content or a companion with a doorstopper amount of stuff. Why can't Ydwin for example have - lets say - Viconia (or more realistically - Aerie) amount of content? From modern perspective, Viconia wasn't particurally complex mechanics-wise. Her character development/ romance was great but very linear - with a simple binary choice based on a point score from ABC test she assigned your CHARNAME that changed her alignment. Her interactions with other companions were static - she either likes them, or not - and limited to simple interjections or banter. And she had no character quest whatsoever. But she had a lot of quality conversations with a player character and that's why people found her awesome. It's a easy and cheap way to create companions, modders were creating additional BG 2 companions on a similar template for ages now, and for free, in their spare time. And, yes, PoE worked on an identical template. I don't see why Obsidian can't cook up something similar with Ydwin or Rekke - companions that have decent amount of quality but linear content limited to player character that develops throughout the game (friendship path, romance path, rivalry path) and memorable but static relationships with other companions. It would at the very least make sidekicks worth it to take into party for more than 5 minutes. And it would even make use of Ashley Johnsons' and Sam Riegels' talent. But that's just me being armchair developer. Apologies if I restate the point someone else already made.

The thing with unflexible path is that your relationship with character would get heavily defined for a get go. I feel like doing a weak relationship would be worse than not doing it at all, when compared to companions with the relationship system. There is nothing cheap about companions. Josh said that creating character arc is the big, time consuming part of writing the companion. I would also have little ingame interaction than have a poor quiality content aka. BB:EE or mods. In past he compared sidekicks to Minsc - cool characters to tag along but dont develop and dont have character arc.

 

Agree to disagree. I find no companions preferable to half-baked ones - at least I won't be annoyed that entire character concepts go to waste, I guess. But since Obsidian decided that sidekicks are here to stay - at least give them something. That's why I gave an example of Viconia - her content was linear, but of high quality. It doesn't necessarily have to be comparable in amount. Just make some use - any use out of this character. Also, Minsc and arguably Korgan were exceptions that worked - they were literal caricatures that you can't do much with even if you tried. But I distinctly remember people complaining about Mazzy, who had much more going for her about being underdeveloped. And I don't want sidekicks to be just "wacky caricatures", who may turn out to be unfunny in the end - but that may be the only route to take if you want those characters to work as they are now. There is legitimate story potential in Ydwin and Rekke. But that whole rant of mine was just wishful thinking on my part. I find this whole general idea of sidekicks totally backwards - story characters with no story attached to them, that you'll get as a reward for completing a quest - so I was desperately hoping for something that justifies their existence. Sorry for being unnecessarily confrontational and derailing a thread onto unpleasant routes. I know people are already sick of sidekick debate.


Edited by aksrasjel, 19 April 2018 - 08:26 AM.


#56
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The S.O. is a big Critical Role fan.  I'll be curious to see how this all tumbles out in practice.



#57
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 You think it's easier to write something for a character that speaks a different language?


I think it's far harder to write something that can't be communicated through words, let me explain myself. His arc will have to receive more details and attention because he can't just reveal his story by speaking, he will have to find a different way to communicate that, learning our language perhaps? Or even painting? So basically I think it will be more difficult because the writer can't just dump lore on our faces with a wall of text, he will have to show that in other way... again... a lot of work for a sidekick.

 

You're right, but the thing is... do we know that? I don't really follow the streams too often, so I apologize if I'm wrong right off the bat, but I feel confident enough to say that - right now - we don't know for sure whether any of that will happen. Is what you're describing really the case here?

 

 

Yes, Josh stated that we will get to know his story on his last Q&A - a really weak Q&A tbh. Maybe we will get to know his story through the game, like we did with Durance. But, like someone already said, why would I take a sidekick if I can take a full companion with a relationship system? I would only consider that if the sidekick would be really funny and interesting, maybe getting the sidekicks into the relationship system would fix their problem.


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#58
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 You think it's easier to write something for a character that speaks a different language?


I think it's far harder to write something that can't be communicated through words, let me explain myself. His arc will have to receive more details and attention because he can't just reveal his story by speaking, he will have to find a different way to communicate that, learning our language perhaps? Or even painting? So basically I think it will be more difficult because the writer can't just dump lore on our faces with a wall of text, he will have to show that in other way... again... a lot of work for a sidekick.

 

You're right, but the thing is... do we know that? I don't really follow the streams too often, so I apologize if I'm wrong right off the bat, but I feel confident enough to say that - right now - we don't know for sure whether any of that will happen. Is what you're describing really the case here?

 

 

Yes, Josh stated that we will get to know his story on his last Q&A - a really weak Q&A tbh. Maybe we will get to know his story through the game, like we did with Durance. But, like someone already said, why would I take a sidekick if I can take a full companion with a relationship system? I would only consider that if the sidekick would be really funny and interesting, maybe getting the sidekicks into the relationship system would fix their problem.

 

 

Ah, thanks, awesome then. I stand corrected!

 

As for the latter part, I can't speak for everyone, but I sure can offer a personal reason: as a dwarf fan, I've come to terms that Konstanten is the closest I'll ever get to seeing another dwarf companion in an Obsidian game. So, yeah.

 

Khelgar come back please



#59
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 You think it's easier to write something for a character that speaks a different language?


I think it's far harder to write something that can't be communicated through words, let me explain myself. His arc will have to receive more details and attention because he can't just reveal his story by speaking, he will have to find a different way to communicate that, learning our language perhaps? Or even painting? So basically I think it will be more difficult because the writer can't just dump lore on our faces with a wall of text, he will have to show that in other way... again... a lot of work for a sidekick.

 

You're right, but the thing is... do we know that? I don't really follow the streams too often, so I apologize if I'm wrong right off the bat, but I feel confident enough to say that - right now - we don't know for sure whether any of that will happen. Is what you're describing really the case here?

 

 

Yes, Josh stated that we will get to know his story on his last Q&A - a really weak Q&A tbh. Maybe we will get to know his story through the game, like we did with Durance. But, like someone already said, why would I take a sidekick if I can take a full companion with a relationship system? I would only consider that if the sidekick would be really funny and interesting, maybe getting the sidekicks into the relationship system would fix their problem.

 

Pretty sure you can still talk to him (and other companions) on the ship, so you probably don't have to take him with you to learn his full story.


Edited by Bill Gates' Son, 19 April 2018 - 10:53 AM.


#60
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 You think it's easier to write something for a character that speaks a different language?


I think it's far harder to write something that can't be communicated through words, let me explain myself. His arc will have to receive more details and attention because he can't just reveal his story by speaking, he will have to find a different way to communicate that, learning our language perhaps? Or even painting? So basically I think it will be more difficult because the writer can't just dump lore on our faces with a wall of text, he will have to show that in other way... again... a lot of work for a sidekick.

 

You're right, but the thing is... do we know that? I don't really follow the streams too often, so I apologize if I'm wrong right off the bat, but I feel confident enough to say that - right now - we don't know for sure whether any of that will happen. Is what you're describing really the case here?

 

 

Yes, Josh stated that we will get to know his story on his last Q&A - a really weak Q&A tbh. Maybe we will get to know his story through the game, like we did with Durance. But, like someone already said, why would I take a sidekick if I can take a full companion with a relationship system? I would only consider that if the sidekick would be really funny and interesting, maybe getting the sidekicks into the relationship system would fix their problem.

 

Pretty sure you can still talk to him (and other companions) on the ship, so you probably don't have to take him with you to learn his full story.

 

Actually, they did an AMA and the sidekicks have an intro conversation when you recruit them but can't converse with them beyond that.  So either:

 

A) Rekke's story will be revealed through outside means like books, or

B) He has more going on than the other sidekicks, and is related to the story for spoilery reasons.






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