Rogue rework thread

[Farsha]

I still want to throw in a request to either overhaul traps or ditch them. If the rogue (or Hunter or Trapper, or Bounty Hunter or Scout) isn't a traps master, then there really is nothing gained by keeping Traps around, other than to one shot PCs.

 

Joe

Anyone can be master trapper, mechanics govern trap efficiency.

Did I ever used them in POE 1?.. No, they are weak (except the petrify trap) and the fact you can have only 1 at a time set-up is a bummer. I think there should be treshold and on mechanics 5 you should have 2 traps and on 10 you should have 3. I would actaully use them if I could set more of them or their AoE would get bigger with mechanics.

 

Anyways traps are XP and money, so just disarm and sell. They are not useless.

Also dungeons without traps is blasphemy.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Farsha

[Boeroer]

I haven't checked in beta4, but doesn't a trap cause an injury to enemies if you lure them into it? Good thing is that enemies now trip their own traps - you don't even have to disarm and place them again.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Boeroer

[Farsha]

I haven't checked in beta4, but doesn't a trap cause an injury to enemies if you lure them into it? Good thing is that enemies now trip their own traps - you don't even have to disarm and place them again.

Yea lagufaeth do trigger their own trip-wires in the Beta which is pretty cool. Didn't notice about the injury. if it's true they are actually more usefull now. Some -dex traps might be pretty handy. Still I'd like to be set-up more than one if I have high mechanics.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Farsha

[Boeroer]

That would be highly abusable. Because if everybody in the party could place two or more traps you would just lay out 10 traps as a party and then lure enemies into them, making balanced encounter design impossible. 

[Farsha]

That would be highly abusable. Because if everybody in the party could place two or more traps you would just lay out 10 traps as a party and then lure enemies into them, making balanced encounter design impossible. 

If it's like POE1 your whole team now has 1 trap. (atleast I think so)

So if your team together (assist mechanic) has mechanics 5 or 10 why not give them 2 and then 3 traps.

3 traps for team would be still balanced don't you think?

[dunehunter]

I remember traps are changed from causing injury to affliction some previous beta.

[JFutral]

I would settle for comparable effects. The reduced damage in PoE 1 for traps I set was a joke.

 

As for abusable, then make it a class or skill dependent. IMO, I still think it is silly that any class can lay a trap. And it is annoying that more than one character has to lay traps if I want more than one trap. If traps aren't supposed to be an important aspect of the game, just do away with them and call it a day.

 

The game can still have traps to disarm or trip.

 

There is no reason to have them retrievable.

 

Or maybe have retrievability tied to mechanics level.

 

Anything! There are so many better alternative solutions than what is currently being implemented.

 

Joe

[gGeorg]

Old NWN used a mechanic like:

skill > DC Trap then disarm trap

skill +10 > DC Trap then retrieve trap

 

e.g. usualy traps are too difficult to pickup. If you manage to pickup, they are too weak to make serious dmg to the current enemy. However you could buy a trap.

[dunehunter]

 

 

 

Aren't affliction also remove target inspiration?

 

Also there was a single target version of Arcane Dampener in PoE 1, it is called Deprived the Unworthy and its a paladin ability I remeber it is very effective when combine with Sworn Enemy to remove Minor Avatar from enemy priest who has high will defense.

 

https://i.imgur.com/PoARIpV.jpg

 

^ SA quote from Sawyer I got from him yesterday.

 

Deprive the Unworthy doesn't seem to be in the previously-mined list of abilities:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire-beta-released-coming-may-8th.119184/page-159#post-5503802

 

I wouldn't mind seeing it return for paladins either. There should be a way to "counter" inspirations, and it shouldn't be locked behind just one class (i..e, wizards).

In my test playthrough, I’m pretty sure affliction and inspiration cancel each other. So if you have blinded affliction, I can use bless to remove blinded, and vice verse.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

 

In my test playthrough, I’m pretty sure affliction and inspiration cancel each other. So if you have blinded affliction, I can use bless to remove blinded, and vice verse.

 

 

 

I'd double-check  -- I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure at this point that Sawyer's summary is accurate. Inspirations do cancel out afflictions, and we as players see a lot of that, but it's relatively rare for enemies to be buffed, so we don't often see our offensive casts getting blanked out by enemy Inspirations.

 

Where it is visible is when enemies cast AoE debuffs that hit an Inspiration that's already in place over the whole party -- you'll see the Affliction pop up then immediately pop up below that again, but crossed out, to signify that it's been cancelled. (So you never see it on the mouseover, either -- it's instantly wiped).

[Cheston]

I've at several points seen one Inspiration from Frenzy disappear before the other. My assumption was that Inspirations cancel out Afflictions (and still apply), but that Afflictions cancel out Inspirations (but don't apply). Not sure what a good place in the beta to test this out is.

[Boeroer]

Just cast an affliction on an inspired party member I guess?

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Just cast an affliction on an inspired party member I guess?

 

Most are foe-aoe and would be hard to target. You could try Blunderbuss modal but it's a bit buggy.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[Boeroer]

Crippling Strike or something similar will do.

[CottonWolf]

I've at several points seen one Inspiration from Frenzy disappear before the other. My assumption was that Inspirations cancel out Afflictions (and still apply), but that Afflictions cancel out Inspirations (but don't apply). Not sure what a good place in the beta to test this out is.

 

This was my understanding too.

[dunehunter]

As I said earlier in my test affliction and inspiration cancels each other and I’m pretty sure that’s how it works now.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

As I said earlier in my test affliction and inspiration cancels each other and I’m pretty sure that’s how it works now.

 

 

Yeah I went and tested and at least in the current BB Sawyer's not correct:

 

 

Ok, I tested this and with Powder Burns at least this doesn't seem to be the case: the hostile affliction effect from Powder Burns just cancels out the Aware inspiration from Dire Blessing and vice versa.

 

Similarly, casting Prayer for the Spirit on a Charmed party member just cancels out both the Charm and the Prayer for the Spirit, both.

 

Tested in the spores fight in the current beta.

 

 

 

On the other hand, "supress affliction" wipes the negative effects of powder burns / rushed reload, or appears to. So with Suppress Affliction going on you can just repeatedly Powder Burn and no downside. (Rushed Reload is harder to judge esp. since the downside isn't an "affliction".)

 

edit: to be clear I like the "feel" of the currently implemented system, but change could be good too

Edited April 10, 2018 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[dunehunter]

 

Ok, I tested this and with Powder Burns at least this doesn't seem to be the case: the hostile affliction effect from Powder Burns just cancels out the Aware inspiration from Dire Blessing and vice versa.

 

Similarly, casting Prayer for the Spirit on a Charmed party member just cancels out both the Charm and the Prayer for the Spirit, both.

 

Tested in the spores fight in the current beta.

 

 

 

On the other hand, "supress affliction" wipes the negative effects of powder burns / rushed reload, or appears to. So with Suppress Affliction going on you can just repeatedly Powder Burn and no downside. (Rushed Reload is harder to judge esp. since the downside isn't an "affliction".)

 

edit: to be clear I like the "feel" of the currently implemented system, but change could be good too

 

 

Ah this is interesting, so do you need to cast Suppress Affliction before triggering Powder Burns or after? Powder Burns is very powerful now because each projection will trigger an AOE attack, without that distracted penalty would be nice.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

 

Ok, I tested this and with Powder Burns at least this doesn't seem to be the case: the hostile affliction effect from Powder Burns just cancels out the Aware inspiration from Dire Blessing and vice versa.

 

Similarly, casting Prayer for the Spirit on a Charmed party member just cancels out both the Charm and the Prayer for the Spirit, both.

 

Tested in the spores fight in the current beta.

 

 

 

On the other hand, "supress affliction" wipes the negative effects of powder burns / rushed reload, or appears to. So with Suppress Affliction going on you can just repeatedly Powder Burn and no downside. (Rushed Reload is harder to judge esp. since the downside isn't an "affliction".)

 

edit: to be clear I like the "feel" of the currently implemented system, but change could be good too

 

 

Ah this is interesting, so do you need to cast Suppress Affliction before triggering Powder Burns or after? Powder Burns is very powerful now because each projection will trigger an AOE attack, without that distracted penalty would be nice.

 

 

 

it doesn't matter. Suppress Affliction just covers and as long as it's in effect no afflictions of any kind will "stick."

[dunehunter]

 

 

 

Ok, I tested this and with Powder Burns at least this doesn't seem to be the case: the hostile affliction effect from Powder Burns just cancels out the Aware inspiration from Dire Blessing and vice versa.

 

Similarly, casting Prayer for the Spirit on a Charmed party member just cancels out both the Charm and the Prayer for the Spirit, both.

 

Tested in the spores fight in the current beta.

 

 

 

On the other hand, "supress affliction" wipes the negative effects of powder burns / rushed reload, or appears to. So with Suppress Affliction going on you can just repeatedly Powder Burn and no downside. (Rushed Reload is harder to judge esp. since the downside isn't an "affliction".)

 

edit: to be clear I like the "feel" of the currently implemented system, but change could be good too

 

 

Ah this is interesting, so do you need to cast Suppress Affliction before triggering Powder Burns or after? Powder Burns is very powerful now because each projection will trigger an AOE attack, without that distracted penalty would be nice.

 

 

 

it doesn't matter. Suppress Affliction just covers and as long as it's in effect no afflictions of any kind will "stick."

 

 

So during Suppress Affliction the character is immune to afflictions is that what u mean?

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

 

 

So during Suppress Affliction the character is immune to afflictions is that what u mean?

 

 

 

That appears to be the case from my testing. I don't think non-"affliction" penalties get wiped though.

 

It only gives you a few shots though because Suppress Affliction has a short duration.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[Boeroer]

Enough for a Black Jacket to empty his 8 blunderbusses.

[Nail]

I don't know guys, rogues seem to be very powerful right now...

Definitely my first character to try.

[dunehunter]

In PoE 1 Rogue has highest basic accuracy, Might gives additive damage bonus, Lash needs bypass DR, all these factors makes the most effective way to boost damage is by increasing attack speed and stacking as much flat damage/crit damage bonus as possible.

 

In DF, Rogue lose the accuracy advantage, Might is a multiplier, Lash no longer affected by DR, which turns him into a backstab monkey Stacking flat damage bonus is still okay, but other classes have better way to boost damage.

Edited April 11, 2018 by dunehunter

[Boeroer]

Actually the combo of additive dmg bonuses and multiplicative MIG can be quite the advantage for the rogue with his multiple dmg modifiers (Sneak, Backstab, Deathblows...). He just needs high MIG. Eventually he will also get a lash ability at higher levels (I read something about a poison ability).

Edited April 11, 2018 by Boeroer