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Beta IV - General Feedback [The Good // The Bad]

Beta Feedback The Good The Bad IV

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#41
theBalthazar

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My main gripe is that the multi-classing rhythm from earlier betas has been thrown off. Level 1 choices are not good, at least not for Fighters while multi-classed. Instead I'm forced to pick some garbage until something nice opens up. And this wonky multi-class rhythm keeps on stuttering my character building.

The extra passives are nice, but they are extremely generic, and many times I really wish a few of them were more suited to the classes.

All in all, I must say that level 1 to 5 as a multi-classed character has taken a turn for the worse, as in more unfun.

 

 

Same feel here. Totally true.

 

Few "lines" are awful for few classes. Line 3 or 4 in Fighter tree (I don't remember exactly but this is level 9 in Fighter multiclass). Difficult to pick up a good thing which is not "garbage" like you said : p

 

Give the impression to... water down few lines. It is strange.


Edited by theBalthazar, 01 April 2018 - 12:13 AM.

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#42
Andraste

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The worst thing about this update: I picked up an Abandoned Cat on the beach, but no cat appeared in my inventory. This is a totally unacceptable bug!

 

(In all seriousness, though, I agree that this update mostly feels great and much closer to a release version. I even tried out ship combat, although I can't say I understood what was going on.)


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#43
dunehunter

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My main gripe is that the multi-classing rhythm from earlier betas has been thrown off. Level 1 choices are not good, at least not for Fighters while multi-classed. Instead I'm forced to pick some garbage until something nice opens up. And this wonky multi-class rhythm keeps on stuttering my character building.

The extra passives are nice, but they are extremely generic, and many times I really wish a few of them were more suited to the classes.

All in all, I must say that level 1 to 5 as a multi-classed character has taken a turn for the worse, as in more unfun.


Same feel here. Totally true.

Few "lines" are awful for few classes. Line 3 or 4 in Fighter tree (I don't remember exactly but this is level 9 in Fighter multiclass). Difficult to pick up a good thing which is not "garbage" like you said : p

Give the impression to... water down few lines. It is strange.

Aren’t fighter got Charge at PL 4 now?

#44
gGeorg

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I probably shouldn't bring it up because the fight doesn't need to be more difficult at this point, however you can spawn the titan and pull it to the powder barrels to get a big head start and separate it from the blights. After the titan goes down you can still pull at least one blight away. After that the fight is just about running away from a couple Sirocco and downing the remaining blights.

Yeah, I did pull him off. Almost got him. For the next fight I will actually equip blunt weapons and try the barrel trick:-). Cheesing my way thourgh it. 

I always find the "spawn additional enemies" in boss fights to be a cheap move. While it is something I won't mind on subsequent playthroughs, it is frustrating to see it happen for the first time with no prior indication. 

 

Well, battle escalation is good. However I agree that reinforcements should be announced somehow. By the boss calling for example. Just a floating text above his head, : "Come to my bidding, come my home sand worms." something like that. When he is half HP. Then, second calling, then one turn or 3s, then they come. Or make it like a Dungeon master/Narrator announcing a message. Watch Darkest Dungeon narrator for inspiration.


Edited by gGeorg, 01 April 2018 - 01:51 AM.

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#45
zantesuken

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I dislike the way penetration now completetle removes the benefits of slow heavy hitting attacks against armor.

On top of that the penetraion values feel very unimmersive.

A pollaxe probably the best weapon against plate armor in the middle ages (way more effective then estoc in reality) is on par with a rapier and a hatchet?

 

I'm not saying you need to revert it back but i feel that the pen values need to be ajusted.


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#46
theBalthazar

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Aren’t fighter got Charge at PL 4 now? 

 

 

Yes. But active abilities have now a problem. A problem found by Boeroer : You have a pool. So, we can admit (except if there is a tactical change to use, often with a priest buff/wizard afflictions with all theyr tools) that cumulate active abilities past 1 or 2 is a pure loss. Sadly.

 

That why a "passive-active" abilitie is OK. (like disciplined strike, active overtime + Another active ability like knock down is possible ) But all the rest is problematic.

 

So physical classes suffer more of poor choices in term of Passives abilities. Because quickly, you have already your disciplined strike + Your Mule kick.

 

I prophesy a HIGH risk of re-train, when you hit level 20. Why ? 

 

Because, with this system, perhaps there are better active abilities level 14-16, mule kick perhaps become useless. ETC ETC^^

So, Active abilities have this problem. It is perhaps a false investment. Or a starting investment.

 

In all cases : If in the same power source you have more than one pure active ability, this becoming a loss (FoD, Mule Kick etc.)

 

Other point, charge seems to be buggy or it is me ? I click on this and nothing happened. (Never used in POE1 too so... perhaps it is me : p)


Edited by theBalthazar, 01 April 2018 - 02:13 AM.


#47
Cheston

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-The empower UI is really great! It looks as important as it is, now.

-The improved tooltips/descriptions are much appreciated

 

-Barbarian:

-Carnage could really use an AOE circle like in Pillars 1.

-The damage from Carnage doesn't count towards Focus generation when multiclassing with Cipher. This makes Witch feel weak compared to Mindstalker (cipher + rogue) or Psyblade (cipher + fighter). Making Carnage generate focus (even partially) would go a long way.

 

-Rogue:

-Streetfighter changes are great! They might need to be toned down a bit, but as-is it really feels worth it to take more Constitution as a Streetfighter.

-All offensive abilities interrupting on hit feels great, it adds a lot to the identity of the class.

-Riposte's tooltip is still really vague- it doesn't feel worth taking when you don't know how often it'll proc.

 

-Cipher:

-Focus gain feels appropriate on a single-class Cipher now.

-The update to Draining Whip's tooltip makes a huge difference in understanding how it works. Thanks!

-Body Attunement's buff doesn't last as long as its debuff. Is this intentional? Feels weird to me.

-Wild Leech is too short/weak to feel worth the investment in focus + cast time. The tooltip also doesn't include duration.


Edited by Cheston, 01 April 2018 - 05:30 AM.

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#48
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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Actually that reminds me: a lot of cipher powers don't list the Penetration value of the damage attack.

#49
Doppelschwert

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I will only pick one active ability, maybe two and the rest is passives. I liked the old per-encounter system better.

 

1. Complain on the forums about class-locked passives

2. Game is changed so that everyone gets a lot (?) more passives

3. Only take passives with one or two active abilities because it's superior from a min/max perspective

4. ???

5. Profit

 

I'll reserve my final judgement until the patch is downloaded and I had a look, but this is exactly what I was predicting.



#50
MadDemiurg

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A major balance concern to me is that a lot of abilities don't really scale with class power level, making multiclassing a no brainer and multiclass character weapon damage way over the top.

 

"Power levels" have mostly worked out for damage spells, making these weaker when you multiclass even though ironically you can't stack that many bonuses to spell damage when multiclassing anyway.

 

OTOH passives and weapon abilities like sneak attack/carnage/flames of devotion/soul whip etc don't really scale with class level and result in unbalanced characters swinging for 150+ damage level 6 with basic gear. Spell damage or single class weapon damage dealers (which seem more or less balanced in relation to each other) can't keep up.

 

Something needs to be done about this, although simply scaling these abilities with class power level is a bad solution because:

a) It will make them underwhelming at low level

b) it will probably make them OP if you can stack a bunch of +power level bonuses on top

 

Maybe certain passives just need to be weaker if you multiclass, idk.

 

Another approach would be to rebalance everything to the same level of OPness adding some stronger higher level passives for the single class characters and adding more sources of stacking spell damage (currently it's mostly the rare +power level bonuses).  Mobs would need to be buffed quite heavily in this case as well though.

 

Yet another approach would be to tweak damage formula so that there are diminishing returns for stacking damage bonuses (you need to account for lashes too though).


Edited by MadDemiurg, 02 April 2018 - 07:23 AM.


#51
Boeroer

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@Doppelschwert:

 

Eh?

 

I would do the same with less passives if I was min-maxing. The situation of active abilites hasn't changed at all. Only now you are not forced to take competing actives as a single class character because you already took all passives so far (if you had any to begin with).

 

Now the situation is FAR better for single class characters and the level-ups are far less boring and frustrating. Also more passives add more build options which is always good in my book - even if a lot of players won't touch several of those new passives.


Edited by Boeroer, 02 April 2018 - 07:18 AM.

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#52
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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I posted this on SA first but I'll cross post it here:

 


 
I've made . . ten or twelve . . different little parties and taken six or eight of them around chunks of the map. The party I've settled on at this point at least, and used to clear everything that isn't locked behind the Engwithan Titan,  is fighter/rogue (swashbuckler), paladin/chanter (herald), Eothasian priest, wizard, PC cipher (Ascendant).
 
Overall I'm really really liking the gameplay now. The biggest surprise has been how much the AI scripting has changed how I play. There are a lot of abilities, especially wizard spells, that become a lot more useful once you can set them as AI triggers, and once you get it set up combat is just much much much easier to manage, to the point that I actually find myself increasing the combat slider speed (something I did not ever expect myself to do). 
 
The affliction/inspiration system is a really nice mechanic and makes the interplay of buffs and debuffs a lot more interesting. There's a nice interaction here with the AI scripting where you can just set your priest to (for example) hit anyone who has an intellect affliction (i.e., confuse/charm/dominate) with an Intellect inspiration, so no more worries (unless the priest is charmed)!
 
The Penetration/Armor system is  . . . a lot less visible. It's rare that a "no pen" message pops up. 
 
The Ascendant is boss. It has a very powerful "clutch hitter" feel, where you aren't doing much at first then your beat drops and you go to town with your high level powers.  It's very well suited to the high-might/dex/per/int, dumped res/con, build I used in most of the first game (and the availability of Inspirations makes dumping stats less of a risk).   In some ways it almost feels too good -- it might be a good idea to tone the Ascendant buff down to 15 seconds base instead of 20 -- but I could be wrong; the class feels very powerful but in practice I'm not actually sure that it's that much more potent than other classes are; all too soon the crash hits and you're back to a mere mortal again, and every so often you get carried away while Ascended and let something get too close and you get crunched, alas hubris.
 
Overall the Cipher power rebalance is very solid and most powers are quite usable now, but there are still a few Cipher powers that still need tweaking (Mental Binding still has the "duration is the same length as cast time + recovery" issue, although it is technically an AoE). 
 
The new expanded open talents are a great improvement but there's still some weirdness and wonkery with them and I'd like to see them expanded a bit more. A few things  I've avoided because according to reports at least they seem like either bugs or design flaws (two-weapon style reducing dual-wielded blunderbuss reload times to absurd minimums or making dual-wielded scepters insanely potent, for example). Mildly annoyed that there's no Gunner and Marksman available for people who aren't rangers. Due to all the armors and immunities, It seems like a LOT of builds can benefit from taking Arms Bearer for the extra weapon set.


#53
Boeroer

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Wait... the beat drops? When I do it the bass drops... ;)


Edited by Boeroer, 02 April 2018 - 08:44 AM.


#54
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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Wait... the beat drops? When I do it the base drops... ;)

 

 

<-- Pale Elf


Edited by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy, 02 April 2018 - 07:36 AM.

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#55
thelee

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The #1 good thing about BB4 is that it is a lot more stable on OS X now, since I most play the BB on my macbook pro these days (since we got a switch my wife has been hogging the TV for breath of the wild so no gaming PC for me). That alone makes the game feel much more enjoyable and closer to release-ready.

 

Agree with most of the other positives, especially the extra ability/passives. Also it's funny what a small difference a UI change can make; I definitely used empower somewhat in past-BBs, but now having this throbbing glowing UI element gets me to use it all the time. Before I rested mostly to deal with injuiries I accumulate. Now I also rest just to reset my empowers. I never really thought casters were underpowered before, but they are certainly more responsive now, thanks to all the re-tuned spell cast times. Still some balance issues, for example if I empower Minoletta's Concussive Missiles I can instakill the harder enemies in the BB on Path of the Damned; meanwhile if I empower Dire Blessing I get............ ?

 

I tried ship combat out and found it mostly baffling and tedious; in the end I just charged and boarded. I'm hoping this is something that gets fixed in the main game with a tutorial or something.


Edited by thelee, 02 April 2018 - 07:37 AM.


#56
AndreaColombo

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You can charge and board? I kept going full sail and never fracking reached them O_o

#57
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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You can charge and board? I kept going full sail and never fracking reached them O_o

 

 

If they take out your sails you have to repair or you won't ever catch up.

 

Also sometimes they'll get in a loop where they just sail away from you forever



#58
AndreaColombo

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How can I repair stuff during ship duels?

#59
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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How can I repair stuff during ship duels?

 

 

You have to reassign crew to work on the emergency, using Report!


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#60
thelee

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How can I repair stuff during ship duels?

 

 

You have to reassign crew to work on the emergency, using Report!

 

 

Wow this was utterly unobvious to me that "Report!" was that.


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