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Josh Sawyer's tweets and teasers, part III

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Did the “c” designate “classic” back in the 90’s?

No it meant computer. The term was born from the idea of adapting PnP RPG to the computer, hence computer role playing game. Something can't be a classic before it is released and that's how those games were marketed, as cRPGs.

 

Now I guess you could say it means classic, because the RPG genre evolved in every direction to the point people don't even understand what role playing means anymore, but that's another story.

So when did “c” become “classic”?

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I've actually never seen anything but the infinity engine games, Dragon Age: Origins, and the first Witcher called a CRPG but I don't read game journalism.

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I've actually never seen anything but the infinity engine games, Dragon Age: Origins, and the first Witcher called a CRPG but I don't read game journalism.

At the time that the infinity engine games came out, it was necessary to distinguish between what we would now refer to as a TTRPG and the newfangled things those kids were doing on their overpriced calculators. An RPG was something you did with books and pencils at the DMs house. A cRPG was something different. Nowadays an RPG is a genre of vidya and a TTRPG is something that needs to be separately identified.

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I've actually never seen anything but the infinity engine games, Dragon Age: Origins, and the first Witcher called a CRPG but I don't read game journalism.

At the time that the infinity engine games came out, it was necessary to distinguish between what we would now refer to as a TTRPG and the newfangled things those kids were doing on their overpriced calculators. An RPG was something you did with books and pencils at the DMs house. A cRPG was something different. Nowadays an RPG is a genre of vidya and a TTRPG is something that needs to be separately identified.

It also differentiated video game RPGs made by western developers vs the jRPGs of consoles. Two completely different styles of RPG that were both popular in the mid 90s through the 2000s.

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I guess that gap is closing since both the west and the east is getting infested with the open world craze.

 

I imagine Open World as a concept is going to actually get worse in a lot of ways because advancements will lead to to larger, emptier worlds that developers simply cannot populate with enough content to really be engaging. What's a whole continent for instance if most of it is just fields and mountains where the only encounter you may have while travelling is an animal attack?

 

Perhaps it's wishful thinking but I hope fatigue sets in soon and those ambitions are scaled back and more manageable RPG games (Of any subgenre.) are made in their place.

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Yes! We have no bananas.

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Did the “c” designate “classic” back in the 90’s?

No it meant computer. The term was born from the idea of adapting PnP RPG to the computer, hence computer role playing game. Something can't be a classic before it is released and that's how those games were marketed, as cRPGs.

 

Now I guess you could say it means classic, because the RPG genre evolved in every direction to the point people don't even understand what role playing means anymore, but that's another story.

 

So when did “c” become “classic”?

 

Probably when nuGamers* saw old-timers call the Infinity Engine games/NWN cRPGs in a forum somewhere when lamenting about no studio making similar games anymore. They deduced they were talking about classic RPGs when they were writing cRPG because nobody bothered to write computer role-playing games since the Age of Acronyms started. That would be from 2007 onward (the 3 years gap between NWN 2 and DA:O basically).

 

Ganrich is also right about cRPG being used to distinguish those games from jRPGs back in the 90s. wRPG (western) was also used but for the more action oriented titles like The Elder Scrolls series.

 

*for lack of a term for gamers who didn't play cRPGs in the 90s.

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Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.


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I guess that gap is closing since both the west and the east is getting infested with the open world craze.

I imagine Open World as a concept is going to actually get worse in a lot of ways because advancements will lead to to larger, emptier worlds that developers simply cannot populate with enough content to really be engaging. What's a whole continent for instance if most of it is just fields and mountains where the only encounter you may have while travelling is an animal attack?

 

Perhaps it's wishful thinking but I hope fatigue sets in soon and those ambitions are scaled back and more manageable RPG games (Of any subgenre.) are made in their place.

I agree. However, if tech like Cloud Imperium Games is using in Star Citizen becomes cheaper to produce then it could work out. They are using a server to simulate 80%-90% of the NPC population in the galaxy. They will all have jobs and move around. Similar things have been tried in the TES games. Although to a less ambitious extent. If you mix this in with a name generator to keep your population from being bandit 1, bandit 2, etc while mixing in some hand crafted story telling... Things could balance out. This tech would have to become cheaper to build and efficient enough to run within the game as opposed to requiring a dedicated server, but it could happen. It just might take another 5 years or more.

 

@Morhilane - that last post is a round about way of saying I'm an old fogey, isn't it? ISN'T IT?!?!?! :p

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Is anyone outside of this thread doing that?

 

If I google “classic role playing game” I get a bunch of people’s top 10 lists.

 

If I google “cRPG” I get “computer role playing game”

 

Labels are only useful if they convey information. If people just decide reappropriate them however they want, they cease to function. A “label” becomes a barrier to communication rather than a means of communication.

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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My 2 cents:

I think the "C" in "CRPG" stands for computer.

Personally I regard this "computer" as electronic divice in the broadest sense, so it includes also consoles or mobile phone games.

So the "C" shows only that it is an electronic game, as opposed to a table top game.

So I consider all of PoE, Skyrim and Final Fantasy as crpg.

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Labels are only useful if they convey information. If people just decide reappropriate them however they want, they cease to function. A “label” becomes a barrier to communication rather than a means of communication.

I agree, and I'd be willing to take that a step further by arguing that "CRPG" is often forced and unnecessary in most contexts.  If differentiating games specifically by medium is important, sure, it's fine to note whether they're computer- or tabletop- RPGs.  But in almost every other instance, you can simply call anything a RPG and it will make enough sense to the listener.

 

There is a lot less domain overlap since the TSR gold box days, so saying something like: "My three favorite RPGs are: Pillars of Eternity, Spelljammer, and Mass Effect 3" shouldn't make anyone's head explode as they attempt to parse the statement.

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There is a lot less domain overlap since the TSR gold box days, so saying something like: "My three favorite RPGs are: Pillars of Eternity, Spelljammer, and Mass Effect 3" shouldn't make anyone's head explode as they attempt to parse the statement.

Having Spelljamer being explained to you is enough to make most people's head explode :p

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Liking Mass Effect 3 is grounds for expulsion from these forums

 

Recant, immediately. *hits with whip* Recant your evil statement. *whip again*

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Liking Mass Effect 3 is grounds for expulsion from these forums

 

Recant, immediately. *hits with whip* Recant your evil statement. *whip again*

I think Mass Effect 3 was great!

 

Ok that's a lie, I think it was better than people said, but it is the worst real Mass Effect game.  On a 10 scale I would give it like a 7.  I refuse to count Andromeda as a Mass Effect game by the way :p.

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Liking Mass Effect 3 is grounds for expulsion from these forums

 

Recant, immediately. *hits with whip* Recant your evil statement. *whip again*

I think Mass Effect 3 was great!

 

Ok that's a lie, I think it was better than people said, but it is the worst real Mass Effect game. On a 10 scale I would give it like a 7. I refuse to count Andromeda as a Mass Effect game by the way :p.

It was such a let down after 1 and 2 though.

 

Yes, Andromeda does not exist, let us not speak of it.

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It was such a let down after 1 and 2 though.

Yes, Andromeda does not exist, let us not speak of it.

Oh I agree, Mass Effect 1 is actually one of my favorite games of all time.  I would give it like a 9.5.  It was a weak ending to an otherwise great series.

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Liking Mass Effect 3 is grounds for expulsion from these forums

 

Recant, immediately. *hits with whip* Recant your evil statement. *whip again*

I think Mass Effect 3 was great!

 

Ok that's a lie, I think it was better than people said, but it is the worst real Mass Effect game. On a 10 scale I would give it like a 7. I refuse to count Andromeda as a Mass Effect game by the way :p.

Agree with almost all of this. The first game is the weakest of the franchise (Andromeda doesn’t exist).

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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ME1 was a fantastic game. No doubt.

smh
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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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ME1 was a fantastic game. No doubt.

smh

 

 

You're sending mixed signals :brows:

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ME1 was a fantastic game. No doubt.

smh

You're sending mixed signals :brows:

Softening the blow before I remind you that Drew Karpyrshyn is a terrible writer.
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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I guess that gap is closing since both the west and the east is getting infested with the open world craze.

 

I imagine Open World as a concept is going to actually get worse in a lot of ways because advancements will lead to to larger, emptier worlds that developers simply cannot populate with enough content to really be engaging. What's a whole continent for instance if most of it is just fields and mountains where the only encounter you may have while travelling is an animal attack?

 

Perhaps it's wishful thinking but I hope fatigue sets in soon and those ambitions are scaled back and more manageable RPG games (Of any subgenre.) are made in their place.

 

And we're all the way back to Daggerfall. Gameworld the size of Great Britain IRL, but almost nothing ever touched by man in it.

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Andromeda was not that bad and all this overwrought wailing and gnashing of teeth about it caused your beloved franchise to be put on ice. Good job.

 

It was a decent to good game coming on the heels of a great trilogy. That’s it.

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