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My hope for being a careful pirate in the Archipelago.


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The seas are glass calm, my generic looking ship with no flags is sailing about 1000 meters from a fat gallon, we tack into the wind and quickly catch and disable the gallon. My fine crew board her and kill the entire crew. There are no ships for miles around. After robbing her stores and scuttling her I do not want to see: "Moderate reputation loss with the Vailian Trading Company"

 

There were no witnesses! There is no CSI: DeadFire to enhance pieces of wreckage. Is there a god of ratting out pirates?

 

Sure if you want to be a flashy evil pirate who wants to get a reputation fly that jolly roger into port, attack a vessel and let the crew live, send messages to all your victims. But not everyone wants to lose access to quests and locations because some godlike reputation system doesnt care how careful I was in my attacks.  STOP CRIMINAL SCUM.

 

(topic comes from worrying about a  PCGAMER article from March 2018)

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The seas are glass calm, my generic looking ship with no flags is sailing about 1000 meters from a fat gallon, we tack into the wind and quickly catch and disable the gallon. My fine crew board her and kill the entire crew. There are no ships for miles around. After robbing her stores and scuttling her I do not want to see: "Moderate reputation loss with the Vailian Trading Company"

 

There were no witnesses! There is no CSI: DeadFire to enhance pieces of wreckage. Is there a god of ratting out pirates?

 

Sure if you want to be a flashy evil pirate who wants to get a reputation fly that jolly roger into port, attack a vessel and let the crew live, send messages to all your victims. But not everyone wants to lose access to quests and locations because some godlike reputation system doesnt care how careful I was in my attacks.  STOP CRIMINAL SCUM.

 

(topic comes from worrying about a  PCGAMER article from March 2018)

It makes sense. I hope so too, if you are careful.

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The seas are glass calm, my generic looking ship with no flags is sailing about 1000 meters from a fat gallon, we tack into the wind and quickly catch and disable the gallon. My fine crew board her and kill the entire crew. There are no ships for miles around. After robbing her stores and scuttling her I do not want to see: "Moderate reputation loss with the Vailian Trading Company"

 

There were no witnesses! There is no CSI: DeadFire to enhance pieces of wreckage. Is there a god of ratting out pirates?

 

Sure if you want to be a flashy evil pirate who wants to get a reputation fly that jolly roger into port, attack a vessel and let the crew live, send messages to all your victims. But not everyone wants to lose access to quests and locations because some godlike reputation system doesnt care how careful I was in my attacks.  STOP CRIMINAL SCUM.

 

(topic comes from worrying about a  PCGAMER article from March 2018)

 

Wouldn't word get out when you sell the stolen goods?

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The seas are glass calm, my generic looking ship with no flags is sailing about 1000 meters from a fat gallon, we tack into the wind and quickly catch and disable the gallon. My fine crew board her and kill the entire crew. There are no ships for miles around. After robbing her stores and scuttling her I do not want to see: "Moderate reputation loss with the Vailian Trading Company"

 

There were no witnesses! There is no CSI: DeadFire to enhance pieces of wreckage. Is there a god of ratting out pirates?

 

Sure if you want to be a flashy evil pirate who wants to get a reputation fly that jolly roger into port, attack a vessel and let the crew live, send messages to all your victims. But not everyone wants to lose access to quests and locations because some godlike reputation system doesnt care how careful I was in my attacks. STOP CRIMINAL SCUM.

 

(topic comes from worrying about a PCGAMER article from March 2018)

Wouldn't word get out when you sell the stolen goods?

Yes. Your ship would also have been the last seen in the proximity of multiple attacked ships.

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The seas are glass calm, my generic looking ship with no flags is sailing about 1000 meters from a fat gallon, we tack into the wind and quickly catch and disable the gallon. My fine crew board her and kill the entire crew. There are no ships for miles around. After robbing her stores and scuttling her I do not want to see: "Moderate reputation loss with the Vailian Trading Company"

 

There were no witnesses! There is no CSI: DeadFire to enhance pieces of wreckage. Is there a god of ratting out pirates?

 

Sure if you want to be a flashy evil pirate who wants to get a reputation fly that jolly roger into port, attack a vessel and let the crew live, send messages to all your victims. But not everyone wants to lose access to quests and locations because some godlike reputation system doesnt care how careful I was in my attacks. STOP CRIMINAL SCUM.

 

(topic comes from worrying about a PCGAMER article from March 2018)

Wouldn't word get out when you sell the stolen goods?

Yes. Your ship would also have been the last seen in the proximity of multiple attacked ships.

 

 

Should only happen if it's not the first time though. 1 ship dissappearing, could be anything. Multiple ships dissappearing and most of the time your ship was in the same area should get people suspicious but again you shouldn't suffer a moderate or higher reputation loss. What would be better if they put in some Q-ships then. So you think you attack a trading vessel but instead you get a vessel packed full of mercs.

And concerning stolen goods, would depend on your fence, no? He wouldn't want others to know where or how he got his goods since that'd be bad for business.

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There are also ciphers. 

 

As long as there won't be an idiotic "improve reputation by not murdering conquered crew" from Black Flag I will be fine.

 

I am 100% sure it will be simply: loose reputation with a faction by raiding their ships. The nuance of being covert or not would be most welcome, though there would need to be a tangible benefit/drawback to each.

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Expect some surprises that will keep you and your crew on your toes. I can't talk about them yet (because I haven't played the game).

Just what do you think you're doing?! You dare to come between me and my prey? Is it a habit of yours to scurry about, getting in the way and causing bother?

 

What are you still bothering me for? I'm a Knight. I'm not interested in your childish games. I need my rest.

 

Begone! Lest I draw my nail...

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The seas are glass calm, my generic looking ship with no flags is sailing about 1000 meters from a fat gallon, we tack into the wind and quickly catch and disable the gallon. My fine crew board her and kill the entire crew. There are no ships for miles around. After robbing her stores and scuttling her I do not want to see: "Moderate reputation loss with the Vailian Trading Company"

 

There were no witnesses! There is no CSI: DeadFire to enhance pieces of wreckage. Is there a god of ratting out pirates?

 

Sure if you want to be a flashy evil pirate who wants to get a reputation fly that jolly roger into port, attack a vessel and let the crew live, send messages to all your victims. But not everyone wants to lose access to quests and locations because some godlike reputation system doesnt care how careful I was in my attacks. STOP CRIMINAL SCUM.

 

(topic comes from worrying about a PCGAMER article from March 2018)

Wouldn't word get out when you sell the stolen goods?

Depends on who you'd sell them to. The Black market traders are usually safe people to share a secret with. I wouldn't recommend someone who's alligned with naval gaurds or off-shores authorities.

Just what do you think you're doing?! You dare to come between me and my prey? Is it a habit of yours to scurry about, getting in the way and causing bother?

 

What are you still bothering me for? I'm a Knight. I'm not interested in your childish games. I need my rest.

 

Begone! Lest I draw my nail...

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Are we talking about romantic pirates from novels or about actual pirates of real dimension?  :no:

Well, historically there were 3 main factors against "stealth" pirates, in a fantasy world they may work and may not

 

a) each ship entering a government port was recorded, including cargo on board (cargo was also taxed), number of crew hired in that port to replenish losses, repairs done to the ship, and sometimes even the distinguishing features of a captain. This registries survived till nowdays.

b) meeting a ship in 17-18 century was way more rare than in 19 century-nowadays. If you could show a chart of Atlantic navigation of Titanic days to a sailor of Tortuga era he will say you are insane and it can't be, the same for modern container routes. So each ship in a certain sector was a RARE occasion and attracted attention. Being a resident of a port, you could name all ships that will enter this port in a year. 

с) Sorry to disappoint you, but IRL your chances to meet a SINGLE galleon and get safely to 1 km distance to him were extremely low. Anything of any value was escorted. Ships almost never went alone. To attack a group of trade cargos + military or hired escort you need your own little flotilia. Even if this galleon was cut off by storm, is damaged and lost in space, it is still a tough target. Real pirates attacked small lonely ships, usually unarmed at all, took soap, bricks, wood, grain - anything of value. Their ships were usually in extremely poor condition, and their crew was rabble and panicked at any smallest threat, surrendered and was hanged.

 

Of course, there were corsairs (capeers) but they are rare elite guys, usually acting openly, with huge flotilias, well-known across the seas and getting full support of their gov. ports (usually with military ship status, it means that the port repairs and refills you for free).

Such guys didn't hide, in opposite - sometimes they used their name to make opponent panic. They are not even pirates, they are more like mercenaries.

 

It was a VERY VERY unfortunate fate to be a pirate. They lived for several years, they were poor, they were trackable, they were hunted, and when european governments started to hire sailors massively, in mere century they all went to serve under the roof of law and piracy was ended.

 

So no stealth raiders, sorry.

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And if you want to be untrackable, unhunted pirate, I would suggest converting to islam, entering berber society and taking a career in mediterranean sea. You will have a huge northern Africa coast with lots of markets, full social support and Turks on your side and will be able to last until 19th century.

 

Still you will hunt down small lonely unarmed boats with soap, but at least you will get some slaves and good cover. But be ready to pilot a small boat also.

 

Still no lonely galleons packed with gold, of course.

 

If Principi control something like a continent shoreline, yes, you can be descreet in Deadfire, ignoring gov. ports completely

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Are we talking about romantic pirates from novels or about actual pirates of real dimension?  :no:

Well, historically there were 3 main factors against "stealth" pirates, in a fantasy world they may work and may not

 

a) each ship entering a government port was recorded, including cargo on board (cargo was also taxed), number of crew hired in that port to replenish losses, repairs done to the ship, and sometimes even the distinguishing features of a captain. This registries survived till nowdays.

b) meeting a ship in 17-18 century was way more rare than in 19 century-nowadays. If you could show a chart of Atlantic navigation of Titanic days to a sailor of Tortuga era he will say you are insane and it can't be, the same for modern container routes. So each ship in a certain sector was a RARE occasion and attracted attention. Being a resident of a port, you could name all ships that will enter this port in a year. 

с) Sorry to disappoint you, but IRL your chances to meet a SINGLE galleon and get safely to 1 km distance to him were extremely low. Anything of any value was escorted. Ships almost never went alone. To attack a group of trade cargos + military or hired escort you need your own little flotilia. Even if this galleon was cut off by storm, is damaged and lost in space, it is still a tough target. Real pirates attacked small lonely ships, usually unarmed at all, took soap, bricks, wood, grain - anything of value. Their ships were usually in extremely poor condition, and their crew was rabble and panicked at any smallest threat, surrendered and was hanged.

 

Of course, there were corsairs (capeers) but they are rare elite guys, usually acting openly, with huge flotilias, well-known across the seas and getting full support of their gov. ports (usually with military ship status, it means that the port repairs and refills you for free).

Such guys didn't hide, in opposite - sometimes they used their name to make opponent panic. They are not even pirates, they are more like mercenaries.

 

It was a VERY VERY unfortunate fate to be a pirate. They lived for several years, they were poor, they were trackable, they were hunted, and when european governments started to hire sailors massively, in mere century they all went to serve under the roof of law and piracy was ended.

 

So no stealth raiders, sorry.

Very informative, good stuff. Reminds me of watching Black Sails then reading up on the people the fiction was based on. Charles Vane was considered a great success as a pirate because his career lasted multiple years before he died.

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Are we talking about romantic pirates from novels or about actual pirates of real dimension?  :no:

Well, historically there were 3 main factors against "stealth" pirates, in a fantasy world they may work and may not

 

a) each ship entering a government port was recorded, including cargo on board (cargo was also taxed), number of crew hired in that port to replenish losses, repairs done to the ship, and sometimes even the distinguishing features of a captain. This registries survived till nowdays.

b) meeting a ship in 17-18 century was way more rare than in 19 century-nowadays. If you could show a chart of Atlantic navigation of Titanic days to a sailor of Tortuga era he will say you are insane and it can't be, the same for modern container routes. So each ship in a certain sector was a RARE occasion and attracted attention. Being a resident of a port, you could name all ships that will enter this port in a year. 

с) Sorry to disappoint you, but IRL your chances to meet a SINGLE galleon and get safely to 1 km distance to him were extremely low. Anything of any value was escorted. Ships almost never went alone. To attack a group of trade cargos + military or hired escort you need your own little flotilia. Even if this galleon was cut off by storm, is damaged and lost in space, it is still a tough target. Real pirates attacked small lonely ships, usually unarmed at all, took soap, bricks, wood, grain - anything of value. Their ships were usually in extremely poor condition, and their crew was rabble and panicked at any smallest threat, surrendered and was hanged.

 

Of course, there were corsairs (capeers) but they are rare elite guys, usually acting openly, with huge flotilias, well-known across the seas and getting full support of their gov. ports (usually with military ship status, it means that the port repairs and refills you for free).

Such guys didn't hide, in opposite - sometimes they used their name to make opponent panic. They are not even pirates, they are more like mercenaries.

 

It was a VERY VERY unfortunate fate to be a pirate. They lived for several years, they were poor, they were trackable, they were hunted, and when european governments started to hire sailors massively, in mere century they all went to serve under the roof of law and piracy was ended.

 

So no stealth raiders, sorry.

 

 

So in a game about Dragons and giant mushrooms IRL means we cant have stealth piracy? Gotcha.

 

So now that we must always be caught at every piracy moment that means how many people will risk losing quests and stores for a few baubles on ships? Will everyone just attack the evil people?  Will the entire ship feature, the biggest feature added to deadfire become far less because we can only defend ourselves against evil pirates?

 

How many people picked the good ending at the end of pillars? 50%?  How many will risk being considered Cruel and Aggressive just to RP some pirate action.

 

How about instead of worrying about what happened in 1650 to 1730 on Earth we think about what would be more fun in the Deadfire around  2823 AI on Eora.

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So in a game about Dragons and giant mushrooms IRL means we cant have stealth piracy? Gotcha.

So now that we must always be caught at every piracy moment that means how many people will risk losing quests and stores for a few baubles on ships? Will everyone just attack the evil people?  Will the entire ship feature, the biggest feature added to deadfire become far less because we can only defend ourselves against evil pirates?

 

How many people picked the good ending at the end of pillars? 50%?  How many will risk being considered Cruel and Aggressive just to RP some pirate action.

 

How about instead of worrying about what happened in 1650 to 1730 on Earth we think about what would be more fun in the Deadfire around  2823 AI on Eora.

Good ending of Pillars? What good ending? As its not a game dealing in clear cut morality you will have to be more specific than that.

 

I assume ship interaction will work the following way: there will be bunch of neutral ships, be it bounties or pirates, whom you will be able to hunt without consequences. 

 

Deadfire's faction system seems to be rather important as well, and while Josh said it is possible to complete the game without allying with a faction, it is hard to do. You are expected to become friendly for a faction. It is save to assume that the more you become friendly with one faction, the less friendly others will become, organically making traveling to certain locations more tricky, and allowing you to target those faction's ships. 

 

I am sure that sinking faction's ships will interact with "faction system" but I doubt it will influence your personal stats (honest, cruel, aggresive etc.) just like cleaning mobs in PoE1 doesn't change your dispositions. 

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So in a game about Dragons and giant mushrooms IRL means we cant have stealth piracy? Gotcha.

 

Why not just have marshmallows rain from the sky? It's fantasy after all. Who cares what tone or feel the devs are going for?

 

PoE has been aiming for something more grounded from the start, despite the magical elements. Not sure why you're surprised now. Or why so many people think "it's fantasy" is an excuse to abandon all internal consistency or representation of basic logic and human nature.

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So in a game about Dragons and giant mushrooms IRL means we cant have stealth piracy? Gotcha.

Why not just have marshmallows rain from the sky? It's fantasy after all. Who cares what tone or feel the devs are going for?

 

PoE has been aiming for something more grounded from the start, despite the magical elements. Not sure why you're surprised now. Or why so many people think "it's fantasy" is an excuse to abandon all internal consistency or representation of basic logic and human nature.

Sure, but as entertaining it was to read how historically it would be fairly easy to figure out who attacked who, I bet a bigger bigger obstacle is design. It's not like Josh himself opposed the idea on basis of realism. After all, Deadfire won't deal with set navigation charts, limited travel paths, people writing you ship down in every port you sail into etc. The system of "stealth" raiding could be quite entertaining but I doubt systems will support it. 

Edited by Wormerine
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