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What does everyone think about the new casting system?


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I haven't played the beta.

 

However, I will not like a 6 second cast, particularly since enemies move, you can get interrupted or not hit. That will make my very fun and versatile druid into a frustrating class. The reason I prefer casters to chanters or ciphers is that I hate waiting for a power to charge up. Action!

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You can now Re-Target any Spell being casted, so you won't miss if Ennemies are moving away.

Cast > Pause > Re-Target > Unpause >  :thumbsup: .

While I think it works fine, I think that it would be cool if there was another autopause toggle - pause before casting. So you set up a cast and right before the cast is go one the game autopauses and lets you confirm/redirect the spell without manually keeping an eye on your fireball.

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You can now Re-Target any Spell being casted, so you won't miss if Ennemies are moving away.

Cast > Pause > Re-Target > Unpause >  :thumbsup: .

probably the best caster feature introduced in an isometric rep games since.. the beginning of isometric games really. It's quite remarkable how much of a difference it does when you don't need to worry and wait before casting the spell as much. Now you can spend that time to sit and wait for the increased casting time instead :dancing:.  Oh well can't win them all.

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Of all the changes it still boils down to cast time for me. Everyone complains about lack of spell diversity, or lack of times can cast per encounter, but none of that matters if you never get a spell off because of stupidly long cast times and interrupt being way worse this time around.  Its an easy fix, just go into a few files, erase 6 seconds with 3 seconds. Done.

Overall yes, some spells could use a shorter cast time I think (see MaxQuest mod: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/96158-beta-speed-mod/)

 

I am not sure that not getting interrupted to be a good reason for that. Move you caster away before casting a big spell or boost concentration. Use other characters to protect the mage. This is a key mechanic for you and your enemies to use to get an advantage.

 

 

I wished Max Quest was a developer on this game, fun comes to some of us by doing things not suffering through challenge after challenge.

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(...)

fun comes to some of us by doing things not suffering through challenge after challenge.

Don’t want to be too picky but “challenge after challenge” sounds like a game definition to me. Remove challenge and what you get is bunch of pointess colourful vomit on the screen. Still, sorry to hear that you don’t enjoy changes to the ruleset.

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(...)

fun comes to some of us by doing things not suffering through challenge after challenge.

Don’t want to be too picky but “challenge after challenge” sounds like a game definition to me. Remove challenge and what you get is bunch of pointess colourful vomit on the screen. Still, sorry to hear that you don’t enjoy changes to the ruleset.

 

I never considered the first game to be challenge after challenge, and I am sure this will be the case with Deadfire as well. Generally you could avoid situations mentioned with the basic tactical choices. The rest can be done with setting to a comfortable difficulty level.

 

However I think frustration can happen even in a game that offers little challenge and I guess this is what he meant. A six second cast interrupted repeatedly by a ranged enemy you can not really get to or draw aggro can be defined as frustrating. This is a game mechanic issue though.

I would still estimate though that it will work out similarily to the first game.

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(...)

fun comes to some of us by doing things not suffering through challenge after challenge.

Don’t want to be too picky but “challenge after challenge” sounds like a game definition to me. Remove challenge and what you get is bunch of pointess colourful vomit on the screen. Still, sorry to hear that you don’t enjoy changes to the ruleset.

 

 

That is the "core" game part, yes. But challenges come in many forms - in RPG challenges are also in dialogue and decisions. Wrestling with the story, so to speak ;)

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think it's around level 12 or so that you have so many spell casts per rest it is not longer even an issue, unless you're doing something majorly wrong. Even at higher difficulties, that's at least 12 casts per rank per dungeon. Not like getting more camp supplies is hard...

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I haven’t played the beta but one of the mechanics I didn’t like in POE was the spells per rest.

 

For someone who doesn’t play RPG’s to min/max and more for the story , I found myself constantly “saving” these per rest abilities for more difficult fights instead of experimenting with how I could chain certain spells/abilities together.

Especially with the limited amount of camping supplies available that I could carry.

 

I see both sides of the argument but my personal preference is always towards giving tools to the player to experiment with verse limiting it to a single use.

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I think most people dont care about the 6 second cast time because they know that with in what 2 weeks of deadfire being out someone will fix those issues with a mod. But not everyone plays on a moddable format.

 

Wizard cast a fireball spell! Sure, let me get right on that!  (fireball goes off after combat is already over.)

 

Fighting a dragon, dodging traps, and saving the day are the fun part of a game. Changing the mechanics so that almost everyone seems to be pairing casters with melee is a bad change and not a fun challenge.

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How much shorter compared to pillars 1? What do you mean by "generally"? How many spells have seen reduction? I mean if 2/3s of the spells are now close to pillars 1 time that is a significant change and I will apologize for my complaint.  If its 8 spells now cast 1 second faster my complaints still apply.

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The casting categories have been reduced. 6 became 4.5 and so on. Also slot of spells have been put into a faster category. There's also an ability now that reduces casting time. And universal attack speed buffs like Frenzy reduce casting time as well - unlike in PoE.

 

Maybe you might want to have a look? Seems to be more smooth than complaining first and then eventually having to take it back. ;)

 

Fireball is still slower than in PoE though. But it does more damage as well.

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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I haven’t played the beta but one of the mechanics I didn’t like in POE was the spells per rest.

For someone who doesn’t play RPG’s to min/max and more for the story , I found myself constantly “saving” these per rest abilities for more difficult fights instead of experimenting with how I could chain certain spells/abilities together.

Especially with the limited amount of camping supplies available that I could carry.

I see both sides of the argument but my personal preference is always towards giving tools to the player to experiment with verse limiting it to a single use.

True, but I feel PoE1 “saving spells” problem is more down to xp float. I don’t use spells in PoE for half of the game, but it is mostly because I don’t have to. Enemies are weak, they usually die before my casters can finish the spell, and unlike Deadfire I can’t retarget it, which means damaging my people once they move forward if it’s AoE or loose the spell if it was single target. Much more fun in expansions, which put up a better challenge.

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i love it, i'm an avid rpg player, played bg, iwd and others with vancian casting, in no circumstances i found vancian casting to be a good choice

you can avoid rest-spamming or spell hoarding only from the second playthrough since by then you know where big fights are

vancian casting works for tabletop because the dungeon master decides when the party can rest and can balance the fights on the go to avoid ending a campaign prematurely (there's no save/load in real life, duh)

vancian casting was brought in videogames just because those games were actually video game editions of tabletop games and changing AD&D from 'vancian' to 'per encounter' or 'cooldown' was too much of a hassle

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"Don't believe in yourself... believe in me, because I believe in you"

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I liked the casting system of PoE. Per-rest or not. It all has its pros and cons. "Vancian" or per/rest is definitely more powerful for players who have meta-knowledge about the game. For new players it's not so nice (tendency to hoard spells and not use them all until the next rest).

 

After all the recent tweaks the Deadfire one is also ok for me now. If casting times are too short then interrupts lose meaning. If they are too long it plays like tar. Atm it's in a good balance I'd say.

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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