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As the title says, since we can import our main character in PoE II, i'm doing again the first game in order to have a fresh face to bring in the new game.

 

I am doing an experiment.

 

i asked myself, can i make an archer with good skills and without an annoying animal ?

 

The answer is yes.

 

 

 

Amaleari ( Barbarian wood elf, hunting bow only )

 

Difficulty : PoD ( because only the highest difficulty can tell if your build is effective)

 

base stats :

 

STR 19

 

CON 5

 

DEX 18

 

PER 18

 

MIND 15

 

RES 3

 

This is a great build in my opinion. I lowered RES to minimum because a ranged char does not need it ( but i have to play carefully because barbarian + low RES = almost all hits she recieve are critical hits! )

 

COS is lowered too because as a barbarian, even with low COS she gets a huge amount of hp.

 

So, i am able to max STR, DEX and PER. Meaning, making a fast, accurate and deadly archer.

 

Add that she use simple armour, in order to not get slowed ( again, no damage reduction but the point is that she must not get hit )

 

 

Skills :

 

The trademark barbarian skill, powered up, sop that it adds + 6 STR + 6 COS + 33% attack speed for 15 seconds. ( in these 15 seconds she is dangerous if she score a hit, her BASE STR becomes 24 without items)

 

Survival : as highest as possible, so that when you rest you get a huge bonus against a kind of enemyes, resulting in hopefully even more critical hits.

 

 

Result :

 

I have now an archer that, unlike a ranger, has many hp and can survive being hit a few more times. And unlike a ranger, she can powerup herself with the trademark barbarian skill.

 

Thr result is, in my opinion, a better ranger than the normal ranger class.

 

 

Obvious question:

 

What if she gets attacked?

 

 

The answer is companions and party formation. 

 

I have on the front line Eder (build as a defensive tank), a paladin that dual wield (sword / mace ) build as a damage dealer.

 

In the back line, i have my main archer character , a monk , and Palegina with sword and shield build as a defensive tank.

 

Behind my archer, her bodyguard is a druid with max damage and mind with the " cat " morph ability.

 

If a monster aim my archer main character, i have my druid morph in a cat form and attack said monster with fast and strong attacks.

 

In the main time, my archer also attack him and because of the aggro, it will likely ends up that the monster will change target and will point my druid.

 

All of this give me time to move away my archer or send one of my other melee chars to defend her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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What, besides the higher endurance, makes you think that this barbarian is a better ranger?

 

And which weapons, abilities and talents do you plan to use?

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Interesting concept. 

 

Still, I am not sure that it can compete with a Ranger for ranged dps and utility.

That being said, the Barbarian does have some useful abilities, though, for a ranged character. Blooded can be used to do more damage, Wild Sprint can be used for running away, and Frenzy, Bloodlust, and Blood Thirst can be used to make shooting faster. Maybe go for Borresaine war bow with this character?

If It were me, and I didn't want to go Ranger, I would go with a ranged cipher; the added accuracy from Tactical Meld & Borrowed Instinct, the extra damage from Soul Whip, the crowd control abilities such as Mental Binding, and eventually the speed from Time Parasite... all these things make the cipher a better ranger than the barbarian in terms of ranged dps and utility.

All in all, if you're enjoying the character, and you feel that it is providing the survivability and damage you want from a ranged character, then, by all means, enjoy your creation. It is certainly a fairly interesting idea, regardless of how it compares to other classes.

 

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What, besides the higher endurance, makes you think that this barbarian is a better ranger?

 

And which weapons, abilities and talents do you plan to use?

 

Boeroer, it's simple.

 

First of all, i made her learn a certain barbarian skill ( i play in italian, so i don't know the exact words )...

 

and now she can do hits in which you roll accuracy against not only deflection but also endurance.

 

And let me tell you, a " ranger " that can target also endurance is better than a simple ranger.

 

 

My barbarian now can score clear hits or critical hits more easily than a ranger because she can roll against both endurance and deflection.

 

A ranger ? His arrows rolls only against deflection.

 

 

Plus, high accuracy + items that add accuracy + a belt that add 20% time of paroxysm --> my barbarian has + 6 CON + 6 STR + 33% attack speed for 18,6 seconds for each fight.

 

-------------------------------------

 

Plus, at level 5 my barbarian has 84 life points and 61 accuracy with a simple, normal hunting bow.

 

Nonetheless, i'm not saying its an awesome build.

 

But in my opinion i would do a barbarian archer class , not a ranger class.

 

I find the advantages of a barbarian class more useful than the ones given by a ranger class

Edited by Matteo89.b
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What, besides the higher endurance, makes you think that this barbarian is a better ranger?

 

And which weapons, abilities and talents do you plan to use?

 

Boeroer, it's simple.

 

First of all, i made her learn a certain barbarian skill ( i play in italian, so i don't know the exact words )...

 

and now she can do hits in which you roll accuracy against not only deflection but also endurance.

 

And let me tell you, a " ranger " that can target also endurance is better than a simple ranger.

 

 

My barbarian now can score clear hits or critical hits more easily than a ranger because she can roll against both endurance and deflection.

 

A ranger ? His arrows rolls only against deflection.

 

 

Plus, high accuracy + items that add accuracy + a belt that add 20% time of paroxysm --> my barbarian has + 6 CON + 6 STR + 33% attack speed for 18,6 seconds for each fight.

 

-------------------------------------

 

Plus, at level 5 my barbarian has 84 life points and 61 accuracy with a simple, normal hunting bow.

 

Nonetheless, i'm not saying its an awesome build.

 

But in my opinion i would do a barbarian archer class , not a ranger class.

 

I find the advantages of a barbarian class more useful than the ones given by a ranger class

 

Fortitude (the "endurance" defense) is usually higher than deflection, especially on tough enemies. Thus, the skill you mention ("Brute Force" in english) isn't as valuable as one might think.

 

In addition, a ranger, before talents and other accuracy bonuses, has 42 accuracy base at level 5. Add in Stalker's Link (the skill for extra accuracy when attacking same enemy as pet/ranger animal companion) and you get 52 accuracy. Add in Distant Advantage from Wood Elf, and you get 47 / 57 accuracy without even factoring in Weapon Focus talents that add accuracy or Perception.

 

Thus, while I am glad that you are doing well with your build, I think your statement about the barbarian being able to score more hits/critical hits is, quite frankly, untrue. Add into this the damage from the pet/ranger animal companion, and it is clear to me that a ranger does better DPS than a barbarian at range.

 

That being said, the barbarian does have more health and endurance than the ranger would.

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Hansvedic, you have good points.

 

But i would like to do an analisys without considering the ranger animal companion and bonus added to it.

 

Because i'm focusing only on the character, a barbarian archer vs ranger archer, considering their skills that involve only themselves. The animal companion is, more than a skill, a companion of the ranger.  Another npc, so i would like to keep it out of this discussion.

 

But if you instead think that it deserve to be mentioned, we will mention it.

 

Anyway, let me mention this again :

 

Plus, high accuracy + items that add accuracy + a belt that add 20% time of paroxysm --> my barbarian has + 6 CON + 6 STR + 33% attack speed for 18,6 seconds for each fight.

 

 

 

Paroxysm, isn't it a great advantage ?

 

And also, don't reduce the discussion on who is the best DPS.

 

You have to think about the whole. A great DPS is useless if he dies as soon as a enemy touch him.

 

A barbarian archer, talking about survival, can endure at least 2-3 hits more than a ranger, enough to escape or get healing or help.

 

Think about Savage rebellion (it's it the english name? ). You can activate it and run away, and it heals you of a lot of hp

Edited by Matteo89.b
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Well, even a Barbarian doesn't have as much endurance and health as a ranger - because everybody keeps forgetting that the Ranger class comes with two characters. One of them doesn't even have a health pool (or in other words: an endless health pool) which can be a big advantage. If you really don't want to use the pet (which is a mistake) you can still park it in front of your ranger. That way he can take more hits than any barbarian.

 

Anyway I do think that neither endurance nor health have a big impact on the quality of a ranged character.

 

Concerning crits:

 

If we look at the starting values of the Ranger vs. the Barbarian we can see that the ranger starts with an advantage of 5 ACC (30 vs. 25). This gap will never go away. Actually it will only get worse.

 

The Barbarian has no ability that raises his accuracy while the ranger has Vicious Aim (+10) and Stalker's Link (+10).

 

If you want to score crits then a Ranger with +25 accuracy (over the Barb) is the better pick.

 

Everything the barb can bring to ranged combat is Frenzy, Barbaric Blow (works with ranged weapons), Bloodlust, Blood Thirst and Echoing Shout. Barbaric Blow's special Carnage effect is wasted on a ranged weapon, but at least the hit-to-crit conversion works.

 

So mainly it's about attack speed buffs. +6 MIG (or in other words: +18% additive damage) for 12 seconds is negligible. The speed gain is nice, but it's rather short.

Edited by Boeroer
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Well, even a Barbarian doesn't have as much endurance and health as a ranger - because everybody keeps forgetting that the Ranger class comes with two characters. One of them doesn't even have a health pool (or in other words: an endless health pool) which can be a big advantage. If you really don't want to use the pet (which is a mistake) you can still park it in front of your ranger. That way he can take more hits than any barbarian.

 

Anyway I do think that neither endurance nor health have a big impact on the quality of a ranged character.

 

Concerning crits:

 

If we look at the starting values of the Ranger vs. the Barbarian we can see that the ranger starts with an advantage of 5 ACC (30 vs. 25). This gap will never go away. Actually it will only get worse.

 

The Barbarian has no ability that raises his accuracy while the ranger has Vicious Aim (+10) and Stalker's Link (+10).

 

If you want to score crits then a Ranger with +25 accuracy (over the Barb) is the better pick.

 

Everything the barb can bring to ranged combat is Frenzy, Barbaric Blow (works with ranged weapons), Bloodlust, Blood Thirst and Echoing Shout. Barbaric Blow's special Carnage effect is wasted on a ranged weapon, but at least the hit-to-crit conversion works.

 

So mainly it's about attack speed buffs. +6 MIG (or in other words: +18% additive damage) for 12 seconds is negligible. The speed gain is nice, but it's rather short.

 

OT for a moment...

 

Barbaric Blow on the wiki says it does not affect Carnage. Is it true that Barbaric Blow affects Carnage as well? If so, I'm going to have to make a dual annihilation sabre (probably make Purgatory legendary and copy it with Helwax Mold) barbarian build...

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Ok, i'm going to post in these days (but i think today) some video of battles with my barbarian archer, considering that people still do not believe that a barbarian archer can be very effective.

 

Just give me some hours and you'll see.

 

Not only words but facts, proofs :yes:

Edited by Matteo89.b
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Ok, i'm going to post in these days (but i think today) some video of battles with my barbarian archer, considering that people still do not believe that a barbarian archer can be very effective.

 

Just give me some hours and you'll see.

 

Not only words but facts, proofs :yes:

While I appreciate your desire to showcase your build as successful, I don't think anyone here is actually saying that a barbarian archer can't be effective. 

 

Instead, what the people here are saying is that a barbarian archer is not as effective as a well-built melee barbarian. There are several incredibly effective builds for a melee barbarian, from the unbelievably tanky Untank that relies on the barb's HUGE health pool to tank to the Golden Dragon tank build which makes a low con, high defense tank to the Interrupt and status effect barbs that spread status effects with Carnage, to dual annihilation sabres barbs (using Purgatory, for example) that just crit great damage all over the place.

 

In addition, people are saying that a Ranger (or heck, a Cipher) is a more effective ranged combatant than a Barbarian, and they are giving solid reasons, based on their extensive experience with the game (and for some their own tests and investigations of the game mechanics), as to why this is the case. Again, they are not saying that a barbarian ranger can't be effective. Rather, they are saying that he is neither as effective as other ranged classes nor as effective as a melee barbarian.

 

I really do appreciate that you have found that a barbarian archer works well given what you want from a class. All I am asking is that you demonstrate that you understand where those of us who disagree with your claim, that a barbarian ranger is more effective than other options, are coming from.

 

EDIT: I realize, after some thought, that the communication issues that seem to be happening here may be due in part to English not being your first language. Please know that I think it is great that you have learned English well enough to communicate fairly effectively with us. I just worry that, perhaps, this fact is contributing to this situation in which I feel that what I am saying is not being heard clearly by you.

 

Regardless, I hope that you enjoy your playthrough and continue to enjoy Pillars of Eternity. I look forward to seeing your videos.

Edited by hansvedic
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Hansvedic, i admit that you have a point. But regardless of which class is more effective with a bow or a melee weapon, i just want to say that a barbarian can be a refreshing, new experience for people who desire to do a ranged class without doing a ranger.

 

I have cleared, in these last years, many times the game on PotD, but i'm far from being a master of the game. I create builds that are intuitive and effective, but i'm the first to admit that my creations are not exceptional.

 

But nonetheless they works, because i am able to clear the game on PotD.

 

Now, this one is my latest project, and i believe it could be good.

 

Anyway, i'm posting soon a video

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And now a small video to show my party (as you can see, my party just killed another bounty ).

 

1- Amaleari, barbarian archer ( notice her damage reduction for melee attacks, it is not less than 17. That allow her to get hit without getting killed, plus she gains healt for a short time like a warrior do, plus my druid can cast healing spells on her) 

 

2- Ayrn, dual-whield paladin ( i try to make her a strong damage dealer. She work, but if too many monsters target her she requires help. She is effective but not reliable for now, her survival chances are high but not high enough )

 

3- Eder.

 

4- Frejya, pale elf monk ( she is my second favourite of the party. I use her to kill the annoying enemy archers / mages / clerics and such things. Usually i support her with my barbarian archer and druid with arbalest. Fists and arrows to destroy annoying bugs )

 

5- Fury, druid ( In short, the second archer of my party and the bodyguard of my barbarian archer. He is always near my barbarian. If monsters attack my barbarian, he casts the thunder spell that stuns monsters, then he cast a support healing spell that affect both him and my barbarian, then he morph in cat form and maim whoever attacks my barbarian)

 

6- Palegina

 

 

Other things...

 

1- my party wear heavy plates because i like my characters to be offensive / defensive. Never only offensive or only defensive. I like to drag battles.

 

 

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Sorry for the last post. I had mistakenly logged in with a very old account of mine, similar names. My official one is this one.

 

I should really delete that one old account, but i don't want to loose the content of the last post

Edited by Matteo89.b
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