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Attack/Action Speed Thread

action speed attack speed recovery time reloading duration beta

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60 replies to this topic

#41
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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Interesting. Going by that calculator, the hat that gives +20% reload speed is roughly equivalent to a bonus of 7 dex.



#42
MaxQuest

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What hat?) Do you have the name or id of it?

#43
AndreaColombo

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What hat?) Do you have the name or id of it?

 

No need; Vektor sells it ;)


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#44
Enduin

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Thanks for the calculator, though I just realized my Nalpazca/Berserker is extremely redundant as Frenzy and Bloodlust suppress Coral Snuff, Potion of Deftness and Swift Strikes. So that's kind of waste. 

 

Why not simply reduce each stacked bonuses rather than suppress them outright?

 

Frenzy and Bloodlust would stay at full bonus of +25% & +20% Action Speed respectively, but then divide Potion of Deftness by 2, Coral Snuff by 3 and Swift Strikes by 4 based on largest to smallest bonus. And once Potion of Deftness expires it shifts so Coral Snuff/2 and and Swift Strikes/3. Or some kind of similar calculation that takes Persistent, Temporary and Passive bonuses into account. It gives you increasing diminishing returns for each stacked bonus, but doesn't outright negate things and make certain Multi-classes pointless. Hell even certain single classes are kind of made pointless if this is accurate as even if I was just a Nalpazca Monk it looks like Coral Snuff would suppress Swift Strikes on its own.

 

 

What hat?) Do you have the name or id of it?

Acina's Tricorn - Shootist: +5 Ranged Accuracy, +20 Reload Speed


Edited by Enduin, 03 February 2018 - 10:33 AM.

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#45
Boeroer

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Ohooo! Suppression rules are in! Greys out the suppressed bonus? Sweet! Why don't you just do PoE3 on your own? I volunteer as part-time developer. ;)

I have the impression that DEX has much less impact than in PoE.
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#46
Boeroer

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I guess you meant Two Weapon Style and not Two Handed Style in the "Affects Recovery" section?

#47
Boeroer

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It also seems that Armored Grace is crap compared to PoE

#48
Boeroer

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Crossbow: holy cow! Faster than two handed weapons in plate armor. So it's apparently easier to reload and fire a crossbow than it is to swing a sword. Erm...

Also: dw pistols. :/
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#49
MaxQuest

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Thanks for the calculator, though I just realized my Nalpazca/Berserker is extremely redundant as Frenzy and Bloodlust suppress Coral Snuff, Potion of Deftness and Swift Strikes. So that's kind of waste.

Yeah, out of those only the highest bonus is applied, while others get suppressed.

Btw, added the hat. It's effect stacks with Sure-Handed.
But can't test if it stacks with Pistols' Modal - since that modal doesn't work ingame atm.
 

Ohooo! Suppression rules are in! Greys out the suppressed bonus? Sweet! Why don't you just do PoE3 on your own? I volunteer as part-time developer. ;)

I have the impression that DEX has much less impact than in PoE.

Maybe, some day  :grin:   :blush:
 
As for DEX - you have the right impression. In PoE1 it's coefficient was aggregated multiplicatively. In Deadfire... it turned out to be taken additively with other multipliers.
 

I guess you meant Two Weapon Style and not Two Handed Style in the "Affects Recovery" section?

Fixed)
 

It also seems that Armored Grace is crap compared to PoE

Armored Grace was really good in Beta2. But it was nerfed in Beta3: 0.20 -> 0.10. Here's the related post.
Updated the calculator.
 

Crossbow: holy cow! Faster than two handed weapons in plate armor. So it's apparently easier to reload and fire a crossbow than it is to swing a sword. Erm...

Crossbow turned from awesome to poop overnight. Suddenly it's reloading duration was doubled.
I have checked all firearms' reloading 15 minutes ago. And here are the results (on a naked lvl 1 character at 10 DEX):

Arbalest:
- tooltip: 6.0s
- beta 2: not tested
- beta 3: 6.93s (consistently 208 frames)

Arquebus:
- tooltip: 6.8s
- beta 2: 6.1s (consistently 183 frames)
- beta 3: 7.3s (consistently 219 frames)

Blunderbuss:
- tooltip: 6.0s
- beta 2: not tested
- beta 3: 6.86s(205-206 frames)

Crossbow:
- tooltip: 5.0s
- beta 2: 3.0s (not a typo, was indeed consistently getting 90 frames)
- beta 3: 6.1s (183-184 frames)

Pistol:
- tooltip: 5s
- beta 2: 4.67s (consistently 140 frames)
- beta 3: 5.86s (consistently 176 frames)

P.S. Updated the calculator with these new reloading durations.
P.P.S. Not really fond with tooltips not matching real values.
 

Also: dw pistols. :/

DW firearms does not benefit from DualWielding or TwoWeaponStyle recovery reduction since they don't have recovery.
DW pistols seem to be mainly for Quick Switching... Fire two pistols consecutively, switch to the next two, repeat-n-times.

Edited by MaxQuest, 04 February 2018 - 03:33 AM.


#50
MaxQuest

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Added alchemy support, and updated arbalest and crossbow modals for beta 3.
Link

P.S. Gunner talent currently decreases Reload Speed instead of increasing it. And I don't even know how to add it to calculator: v1. how it works now ingame, or v2. how it should work)

Edited by MaxQuest, 04 February 2018 - 11:23 AM.

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#51
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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maybe a silly question but how is the calculator depicting the attack cycle for reloading dual-weilding pistols and blunderbi? Shouldn't it be shoot shoot reload, not shoot reload shoot (reload?) ? And is there one reload cycle for both weapons or two stacked reloads?



#52
MaxQuest

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First goes a result <div> container for mainhand, then one for offhand. Thus I am showing mh_att - mh_rec/rel - oh_att - oh-rec/rel.
Technically I can add additional logic and change the order when firearms are dual-wielded. Should I?

Ingame it goes like this: shoot, shoot, reload, shoot, reload, shoot, and so on. But gotta check the order of hands.

Edited by MaxQuest, 04 February 2018 - 12:07 PM.


#53
Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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First goes a result <div> container for mainhand, then one for offhand. Thus I am showing mh_att - mh_rec/rel - oh_att - oh-rec/rel.
Technically I can add additional logic and change the order when firearms are dual-wielded. Should I?

Ingame it goes like this: shoot, shoot, reload, shoot, reload, shoot, and so on. But gotta check the order of hands.

 

 

Ok, that's what I thought.

 

I'd suggest depicting shoot / reload / shoot / reload for clarity, unless you add a time slider and a DPS calculator to turn this into a general attack calculator not a speed calc.



#54
dunehunter

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John mentioned that there will be a speed slider so everybody can slide the speed to meet their own tastes :)



#55
AndreaColombo

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That hopefully means recovery’s going back to where it was, at the very least.

#56
Boeroer

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Not really. It's just a slider for the overall game speed. I hope you can make it really, really fast. I hate it when you have to run around doing "bring-X-from-A-to-B-quests" in a town and the guys are running sooo slowly. "A walk in the park - like steps in the quark"...


Edited by Boeroer, 07 February 2018 - 01:02 AM.


#57
AndreaColombo

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I meant, since people will be able to slow things down with the slider, there will be no need for the devs to keep weapon recovery at 4s. It would make sense to revert the change back to beta2 values.

#58
Madscientist

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I think that beta version 3 is more balanced than the ones before.

I could live with the current speed if can speed up or slow down things with a slider. Is this slider for combat only or does it change the speed in general?

 

I still think it is a bug that armor does not influence reload speed.

I also still think that many spells are too slow ( * looking at summoned weapons, but not only those *). I never learn spells with more than 3 sec casting time, unless the effect of the spell is really powerful.



#59
kmbogd

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With the recent beta update, beta version 4, there has been a nerf with respect to dual welding: the recovery time is no longer reduced by 50% but by 30%. This means that the new dual welding recovery step is no longer 1/0.5 - 1 = 2 - 1 = 1. Its value is now 1/0.7 - 1 = 1.428 - 1 = 0.428

 

Also I think that the two weapon style step is not 1.2 - 1 = 0.2 (as I've seen in some examples) but 1/0.8 - 1 = 0.25. Or am I misunderstanding something?


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#60
MaxQuest

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With the recent beta update, beta version 4, there has been a nerf with respect to dual welding: the recovery time is no longer reduced by 50% but by 30%. This means that the new dual welding recovery step is no longer 1/0.5 - 1 = 2 - 1 = 1. Its value is now 1/0.7 - 1 = 1.428 - 1 = 0.428

This was actually done in update #2 (i.e. backer's beta 3). Somehow previous patch notes made their way in the new one ^^
From this point of view the calculator is up to date, as I'm already using 1/0.7.
 

Also I think that the two weapon style step is not 1.2 - 1 = 0.2 (as I've seen in some examples) but 1/0.8 - 1 = 0.25. Or am I misunderstanding something?

I have checked the statuseffects.gamedatabundle and the value is indeed 0.8. Will have to check also in game how it's taken into account.
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