Chanter Subclasses Discussion

[SaruNi]

 

Dragon thrashed ? = Poop now.

What the...

I've just tried it, and it's not even a DoT now??

 

At 10 MIG, it's just dealing 4.8 (according to combat log, or 6 according to overhead numbers) burn and slash damage once! every 6s (without brisk recitation) or every 3s (with brisk recitation)

 

In PoE1, with brisk recitation at 50% and 20 INT, it would have 4s duration + 6s linger resulting in 10 DoT duration. So every 4s there would be applied a DoT that has a duration of 10s (4.33 ticks) and every tick would deal 10 fire + 10 slash damage (@10 MIG), for a total of 86.6 (preDR) damage.

 

At 10 MIG:

- now: 6 preAR damage every 3s, compared to

- poe1: 86.6 preDR damage every 4s

 

That's a very severe nerf.

 

 

The Dragon Thrashed is modified by resolve now, not strength... at 20 resolve it crits for 10 damage (5 burn, 5 slash). 

[MaxQuest]

^ Just in case I had all six attributes at 10))

 

P.S. If Dragon Trashed affects only one target per chant, am really surprised it can be worse than already borderline bad.

Edited January 8, 2018 by MaxQuest

[SaruNi]

Just tested Skald a bit:

 

- I'm not sure the crit-to-phrase bug is actually happening---seems to be getting 4 phrases from crit on hit in less than 6 seconds.

- 4th tier upgraded The Thunder Rolled gets a +15 accuracy bonus, which partly makes up for Chanter's lack of accuracy bonuses.

- Seven Nights is good but takes 6 seconds to cast... if interrupts are an issue can use the Concentration chant I guess.

- Single class chanter at level 9 starts with 4 phrases, which means Skald or Beckoner can cast their most powerful invocations right away. But invocations cannot be precast, because phrase count is 0 before combat starts.

[SaruNi]

The tier 5 drake summons won't attack and its active abilities (breath, roar which grants it +5 perception) are bugged so they won't cast ("abandoned casting" forever for no reason). However it does have a passive Fear Aura which works and it will move.

 

And Ancient Brittle Bones still doesn't work at all (the skeletons don't get replaced by two smaller skeletons when they die).

 

The Will o' the Wisps' Dazzling Lights ability only says it has a push effect, but it also causes prone.

Edited January 8, 2018 by SaruNi

[theBalthazar]

 at 20 resolve it crits for 10 damage (5 burn, 5 slash). 

 

 

Snif... Good bye dragon trashed.

 

With me this spell is sometimes bug : no effect (or I don't see ?)

[Boeroer]

I also tested a bit and a Beckoner/Paladin with any summons, + Zealous Focus + Shared Flames + Mith Fyr is very good in offense (all summons get a +45% burning lash for a good amount of time once you did a FoD attack) and you can easily switch to "survival modus" Ancient Memory + upgraded Zealous Endurance + Lay on Hands to keep summons alive passively and actively. For example if you want to body-block instead of doing higher damage. It's a great multiclass combo and very useful in every party - and also solo I guess.

 

As somebody already pointed out you only get your starting ophrases once combat started, so no invocations from stealth (at least not if you are the one who wants to initiate combat with an invocation in order to circumvent the casting time).

[SaruNi]

At level 9, Her Courage Thick as Steel absorbs 30 damage / tick before disintegrating... so 30 every 3 seconds for Troubadour with Brisk Recitation. Not affected by resolve. Not as awful as Ancient Memory but still....

 

[Edit: tried the invocation that causes Charmed again and it worked, maybe it was reduced to Confused before by an Inspiration the enemies already had?....]

 

The invocations that cause Frightened are okay if you want to keep enemies from using abilities, but unlike Terrified it doesn't cause them to run away.

 

The non-offensive invocations and the defensive chants seem to be suggesting Chanter as alternative to priest/paladin for dealing with afflictions, healing, reviving the dead, etc.... how are they at that? Can remove all except Intellect afflictions (and use the +will chant to help the party defend against those), can meta-game to match chants to the afflictions the enemies use (if they're not using afflitions for multiple stats...). Biggest limitation being slow accumulation of phrases except for skald---which implies that skald could be the best for non-offensive invocations too....

Edited January 11, 2018 by SaruNi

[dunehunter]

Absorb 30 damage per 3 second is not enough to be a good phrase? I think it sounds pretty good.

[SaruNi]

Absorb 30 damage per 3 second is not enough to be a good phrase? I think it sounds pretty good.

 

Yes, but it's 5th tier... and is it good enough to make single-class Troubadour worthwhile?

 

One other nice thing about single-class Troubadour is that once they start with 4 phrases they can summon skeletons as quickly as a Beckoner---with half the DPS, half the skeletons, but sturdier skeletons (harder to wipe out with AoE). 

Start: 4 phrases---skeletons cost Troubadour 4

After 12 seconds (more with high int): you've gotten 4 phrases again, can start casting skeletons again

Skeletons last base of 12 seconds if not killed beforehand. Better once Ancient Brittle Bones is functional...

Edited January 11, 2018 by SaruNi

[dunehunter]

 

Absorb 30 damage per 3 second is not enough to be a good phrase? I think it sounds pretty good.

Yes, but it's 5th tier... and is it good enough to make single-class Troubadour worthwhile?

 

One other nice thing about single-class Troubadour is that once they start with 4 phrases they can summon skeletons as quickly as a Beckoner---with half the DPS, half the skeletons, but sturdier skeletons (harder to wipe out with AoE).

Start: 4 phrases---skeletons cost Troubadour 4

After 12 seconds (more with high int): you've gotten 4 phrases again, can start casting skeletons again

Skeletons last base of 12 seconds if not killed beforehand. Better once Ancient Brittle Bones is functional...

I did some small test, surrounding my chanter with 6 tiger, he barely get any damage.

 

Absorb 30 damage per 3 second = OP.

[SaruNi]

 

 

Absorb 30 damage per 3 second is not enough to be a good phrase? I think it sounds pretty good.

Yes, but it's 5th tier... and is it good enough to make single-class Troubadour worthwhile?

 

One other nice thing about single-class Troubadour is that once they start with 4 phrases they can summon skeletons as quickly as a Beckoner---with half the DPS, half the skeletons, but sturdier skeletons (harder to wipe out with AoE).

Start: 4 phrases---skeletons cost Troubadour 4

After 12 seconds (more with high int): you've gotten 4 phrases again, can start casting skeletons again

Skeletons last base of 12 seconds if not killed beforehand. Better once Ancient Brittle Bones is functional...

I did some small test, surrounding my chanter with 6 tiger, he barely get any damage.

 

Absorb 30 damage per 3 second = OP.

 

 

Maybe in heavy armor with shield... naked with maxed resolve it wasn't enough to avoid taking significant damage as solo tank in the encounters near the village. Or maybe I've just been spoiled by my unkillable naked death godlike Saint Elga (just has to watch out for Mage Slayers)....

 

And if you're using Brisk Recitation you probably can't use it with the affliction-resisting chants... unless you time the chant sequence perfectly in advance and the enemy AI casts the afflictions while you've got the other chants up. Every other tank class gets passives (or quick casts) for resisting or defending against afflictions, as well as interesting abilities that can be used simultaneously... there are still the invocations though. And it's AoE so better as support for primary tank....

Edited January 11, 2018 by SaruNi

[dunehunter]

But why would you be naked? In current armor system, wear heavier armor is much better than naked.

 

The best strategy to use this phrase is wearing armor. I don’t understand why u try to argue its usefulness with a naked character.

 

The only affliction u need to worry is probably Paralysis, but this is a team game, and u can always pick a wood elf if u don’t wanna get paralyzed. And a five character team with this phrase is crazily powerful.

Edited January 11, 2018 by dunehunter

[SaruNi]

But why would you be naked? In current armor system, wear heavier armor is much better than naked.

 

The best strategy to use this phrase is wear armor. I don’t understand why u try to argue its usefulness with a naked character.

 

Usually to reduce recovery time, but you have to wait before accumulating more phrases anyway so I agree. Anyway, what I meant was that I hadn't tested it with heavy armor and that probably makes it good enough. But probably not as good as Nature Godlike Lifegiver et cetera.... 

[dunehunter]

Heals can be countered by Con afflictions, damage absorb is not. But I agree that both class offers huge support to the team.

 

If your heals can reach 30 hp per 3 second, then it is equally powerful.

Edited January 11, 2018 by dunehunter

[SaruNi]

Heals can be countered by Con afflictions, damage absorb is not. But I agree that both class offers huge support to the team.

 

If your heals can reach 30 hp per 3 second, then it is equally powerful.

 

Just tested Priest's Consecrated Ground---at 20 resolve and level 9 it heals 10.9 per second per character in AoE. Whereas the 30 damage shield only absorbs 30 damage total....

Edited January 11, 2018 by SaruNi

[Boeroer]

I also think that it sounds rather good. Not for a char who stands in the fray and has bad defenses, but for any tanky char this should eliminate enemies' grazes pretty nicely, what do you think?

 

Now without endurance/health it's basically the same as an endless healing source that does 30 points of healing per tick. If I think about it that way it sounds rather amazing.

 

I also guess it kind of stacks (also from different chanters) like in PoE, where a dissolved shield got immediately replaced by a previously suppressed one.

 

By the way: does Ancient Memory from different Chanters still stack? I believe it does, but I didn't test it.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Boeroer

[dunehunter]

I also think that it sounds rather good. Not for a char who stands in the fray and has bad defenses, but for any tanky char this should eliminate enemies' grazes pretty nicely, what do you think?

 

Now without endurance/health it's basically the same as an endless healing source that does 30 points of healing per tick. If I think about it that way it sounds rather amazing.

 

I also guess it kind of stacks (also from different chanters) like in PoE, where a dissolved shield got immediately replaced by a previously suppressed one.

 

By the way: does Ancient Memory from different Chanters still stack? I believe it does, but I didn't test it.

Yeah the new shield will replace the old one I think.

 

Not 100% sure if ancient memories stacks or not.

[Nail]

The Skald and Beckoner are pretty powerful. The single class Skald gets Killers Froze Stiff pretty early and because of the reduced casting cost he can actually start with a cast of Killers and then go in and crit the heck out of everyone he's paralyzed. Also works great in multiclass with any melee class that either speeds him up (monk with Swift Strikes and Swift Flurry) or grants him melee crit conversion (Berserker, Rogue, fighter).

 

Beckoner is the perfect body blocker. Actually it's too good I think. I didn't try the Ancient Brittle Bones with a Beckoner in the new beta version . In the first one Brittle Bones didn't work. But just imagine having 6 Skeletons on the map... They said in one of the recent vids that they will have to nerf him because he's just too good. So they probably did that.

Aw, that reminded me BG and acquiring Drizzt's scimitar

[SaruNi]

Looks like Chanters can handle all afflictions except Confused. (For the 2nd and 3rd tier Intellect afflictions---Charmed and Dominated---they can use Charmed, assuming a second Charmed will overcome Dominated... though the twice-Charmed character wouldn't be able to use abilities.)

 

Chants: 

Resistance to resolve and constitution afflictions

Resistance to strength and dexterity afflictions

+fortitude and +will defense

 

Invocations:

Immune to dexterity afflictions (+ strength inspiration when dexterity affliction "cleared")

Immune to resolve afflictions

Strength and resolve inspirations

Dexterity and perception inspirations

Edited January 11, 2018 by SaruNi

[neotemplar]

So, may I ask some noob questions?

Is beckoner better as a tank or as a far-away shooter/caster?

Want to try him, it seems he must be durable - if he goes down (by AoE or by enemies if the group formation goes to hell) - summons will disappear, so should I multiclass him with unbroken or paladin, go pure chanter or use him from afar (maybe add ranger or rogue for good missile damage)?

What is best if I plan to use summons?

Can anyone say anything about beckoner-wizard combo? Lack of summons was the upsetting thing about wizards in POE1, so maybe we can fix it now? 

[Novem]

I like the idea of the Troubadour but the execution leaves a bit to be desired. What I wish is that the Brisk Recitation Modal let you stack up phrases faster than a base chanter, so that you have to decide between incantations and passive effects on a constant basis. Right now, and I've played Troubadour in both of my playthroughs of the beta so far btw, it just doesn't feel like a very interactive class and the fantasy I had in mind for it isn't really being met. I really dislike the negative they chose with all invocations costing +1 to cast, and I'd prefer them making all OFFENSIVE invocations cost more (even if it's +2).

 

I'm super jealous of the Skald because their offensive invocations aren't locked off to them, only defensive ones, but for the troubadour every single invocation in the game has a significant hurdle in the way. It makes playing a supportive chanter a lot less satisfying than it could be.

 

One thing I will say about the chanter in general is that I wish the cast time changes didn't apply to their summons. I'd rather have to stack up more phrases to make a summon then how it is currently where it takes several seconds to summon something. It feels like there's two separate barriers between me and summoning something and... ehhhh.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Novem

[SaruNi]

I like the idea of the Troubadour but the execution leaves a bit to be desired. What I wish is that the Brisk Recitation Modal let you stack up phrases faster than a base chanter, so that you have to decide between incantations and passive effects on a constant basis. Right now, and I've played Troubadour in both of my playthroughs of the beta so far btw, it just doesn't feel like a very interactive class and the fantasy I had in mind for it isn't really being met. I really dislike the negative they chose with all invocations costing +1 to cast, and I'd prefer them making all OFFENSIVE invocations cost more (even if it's +2).

 

I'm super jealous of the Skald because their offensive invocations aren't locked off to them, only defensive ones, but for the troubadour every single invocation in the game has a significant hurdle in the way. It makes playing a supportive chanter a lot less satisfying than it could be.

 

One thing I will say about the chanter in general is that I wish the cast time changes didn't apply to their summons. I'd rather have to stack up more phrases to make a summon then how it is currently where it takes several seconds to summon something. It feels like there's two separate barriers between me and summoning something and... ehhhh.

 

Doesn't Brisk Recitation let you increase the phrase resource faster than an ordinary chanter? 3 seconds vs 6 seconds. The extra +1 cost requires an additional 3 seconds per invocation:

 

3 phrases: 12 seconds vs 18 seconds

4 phrases: 15 seconds vs 24 seconds

5 phrases: 18 seconds vs 30 seconds

 

Of course that's not taking into account the initial phrase count which iirc tops out at 4 in the beta. So regular Chanter has the advantage of being able to cast 4 phrase invocations immediately. If they both use 4 phrase invocations ASAP, we get the above scenario but with +3 seconds added to each troubadour time (still significantly faster than chanter for all after the first). Alternatively, if they both use 3 phrase invocations as soon as possible:

 

0 seconds: Chanter 1 invocation 1 phrase, Troubadour 1 invocation 0 phrases

3s: T 1 / 1

6s: C 1 / 2, T 1 / 2

9s: T 1/3

12 s: C 2 / 0, T 2 / 0 (Chanter casts second invocation, Troubadour casts second invocation)

15s: T 2 / 1

18s: C 2 / 1, T 2 / 2  

21s: T 2 / 3

24s: C 2 / 2, T 3 / 0 (Troubadour casts third invocation)

27s: T 3 / 1

30s: C 2 / 3, T 3 / 2 (Chanter casts third invocation)

33s: C 3 / 0, T 3 / 3 

36s: C 3 / 0, T 4 / 0 (Troubadour casts fourth invocation) 

Edited February 28, 2018 by SaruNi

[Novem]

Guess I was just wrong on that point. Thanks for the correction!

[Ragniz]

Do Skalds/Barbarians get extra phrases from carnage crits?

[MaxQuest]

^ No, carnage no longer acts as regular hits, and do not carry onHit and onCrit effects.

 

But I would expect skald to get phrases from (the current) citzal's lance blast crits. Also it could be hillarious with Swift Flurry, if your acc minus enemy deflection is high enough.

Edited March 6, 2018 by MaxQuest