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I'm with Shady, Skarpen, & Hurlshot. I'm totally cool with pointing out that Kobe once pulled the "oops wrong hole" trick, but maybe not mere hours after the guy died. Give people a couple of days to grieve before breaking out the ol' soapbox.

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It's sad to see that if it's white corporate guys at CNN then settling outside court is just a way to avoid lengthy court battle, but when it's a black guy it's suddenly admission of guilt for good old Grommy here. Not a surprise at all to be honest. It's good there is still some decency in few people round here, though.

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42 minutes ago, Keyrock said:

I'm with Shady, Skarpen, & Hurlshot. I'm totally cool with pointing out that Kobe once pulled the "oops wrong hole" trick, but maybe not mere hours after the guy died. Give people a couple of days to grieve before breaking out the ol' soapbox.

not to put words in shady's mouth, but that isn't what he said. if were just kobe who died, shady woulda' been ok with critique o' kobe, yes? maybe not fair to lump him in with you and hurl and skarp on this.

and how long is enough o' a grace period for fans o' an accused rapist? we waited a day.  how much time do you need to grieve before it becomes kinda horrific not to mention kobe's 2003 issues?

kp raised example o' harvey weinstein. imagine harvey dies today. if hollywood sudden pretended not to recall #me too and we got Presidents and celebrities pouring out their heartfelt sorrow at harvey's passing, would you be surprised? why? if somebody did a "whoa. hold on a sec," and pointed out that harvey were not a swell guy, would you be annoyed by the critique coming a day after his passing?

if the internet, following epstein's suicide, gave us non-stop adulation regarding all the charity works in which jeffery were  involved while ignoring the darker subject matter, would you not have been a bit shocked?

if kobe died september 2003 in similar circumstances, would we be having this same conversation? 

if kobe's victim were your sister or mother or close friend, would you feel same?

am not gonna change hearts and minds on this, so am quits. that said, mention kobe's death didn't bother us 'til we had a day's worth o' weeping and laments w/o any recognition o' 2003. found such accidental and/or willful oversight to be disturbing. what does such oversight say 'bout the living?

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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If Gromnir didn't mention Kobe's actions (and if Malc hadn't linked something with a link going over the details of the case) then I honestly wouldn't have thought of it. I was 11 in 2003 and in 17 years all I can recall of hearing about it was an off the hand comment someone made in another message board when Kobe Bryant won an oscar for an animated short. If it's taboo to mention anything that reflects poorly on the recently deceased then I think we're going to effectively whitewash the legacies of people who have done some bad ****. If I'm an insensitive bastard so be it, but I'd rather we talk honestly than let horrible acts fester.

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12 hours ago, Skarpen said:

It's sad to see that if it's white corporate guys at CNN then settling outside court is just a way to avoid lengthy court battle, but when it's a black guy it's suddenly admission of guilt for good old Grommy here. Not a surprise at all to be honest. 

So... let me sort this out: you as a seemingly conservative Pole (who are not famous for their xenophilia right now*) accuse a native american of being a white supremacist? 

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)* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Poland

Edited by Boeroer

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4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

So... let me sort this out: you as a seemingly conservative Pole (who are not famous for their xenophilia right now*) accuse a native american of being a white supremacist? 

Yes. We deciden on our annual meeting that we will shake things up a bit 😊

I hope the irony of accusing someone of xenophobia while claiming individual must have certain characteristics because he is from a certain nation is not lost on you 😊

On the topic however. Where did I use the words white supremacist in my reply? Or are you claiming in your non-racist and non-xenophobic style that only whites can be racists and xenophobic and the race is implied in the term itself? 😊

Edited by Skarpen

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1 hour ago, Skarpen said:

I hope the irony of accusing someone of xenophobia while claiming individual must have certain characteristics because he is from a certain nation is not lost on you.

I didn't accuse any individual of xenophobia. I just pointed out that conservative Poles are not famous for xenophilia. That's not an accusation but a fact: https://balkaninsight.com/2019/08/13/new-polish-migration-policy-seen-enshrining-xenophobia/

So if a person accuses somebody else of racism they should be extra careful if their own demographic group and/or political spectrum has a certain and not entirely unfounded reputation for being xenophobic or racist - even if that person themselves is not. Because especially if you are not you don't want to give the impression of being a hypocrite or klutz.

If that alleged non-racist person then accuses a native american of having white supremacist tendencies this person just looks like they either

a) didn't know the accused person was native american or

b) are nuts

Pick your poison... 

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1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

So if a person accuses somebody else of racism they should be extra careful if their own demographic group and/or political spectrum has a certain and not entirely unfounded reputation for being xenophobic or racist - even if that person themselves is not. Because especially if you are not you don't want to give the impression of being a hypocrite or klutz.

Complete idiocy. I will refer you to this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Have_a_Dream

Maybe some wisdom will come to your identity politics infested head.

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

If that alleged non-racist person then accuses a native american of having white supremacist tendencies this person just looks like they either

a) didn't know the accused person was native american or

b) are nuts

Pick your poison... 

 c) doesn't give a ... about what nationality or color the interlocutor is and focuses on what they say and do.

I see you will not point to me where did I say anything about white supremacy, typical 😊

 

Edit: On second thought if a moderator would cut this conversation to separate thread it would be great, as this is not the place for discussions like this, I think.

Edited by Skarpen
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2 hours ago, Skarpen said:

 c) doesn't give a ... about what nationality or color the interlocutor is and focuses on what they say and do.


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Sure - only problem is that Gromnir didn't say anthing along those lines. You were just assuming that he's white and tried to put him in a corner by picking the most absurd interpretation of his words. 

I guess it's a) then and you're just too embarrassed to admit it.

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14 minutes ago, Boeroer said:


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Sure - only problem is that Gromnir didn't say anthing along those lines. You were just assuming that he's white and tried to put him in a corner by picking the most absurd interpretation of his words. 

I guess it's a) then and you're just too embarrassed to admit it.

More idiocy. Everyone knows who Gromnir is if they been here for more than 5 minutes. 

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22 hours ago, Keyrock said:

I'm with Shady, Skarpen, & Hurlshot. I'm totally cool with pointing out that Kobe once pulled the "oops wrong hole" trick, but maybe not mere hours after the guy died. Give people a couple of days to grieve before breaking out the ol' soapbox.

What's the big deal if someone does mention it, barring them making things up or something.  All parties should expect it, although not sure the feelings of people whose sole interaction with Bryant was watching him play matter much.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

That can only mean you've been here for less than 5 minutes.

doesn't much concern us how long somebody has been here, but factual misrepresentations as well as a misplaced desire to inject race into a topic is unfortunate regardless o' a poster's national origin. in the short time skarpen has been posting (HA!) he has made a habit o' logic and fact fails which is disproportionate plentiful relative to post count.

unrelated, but on-topic and curious relevant, sad news o' the passing o' nathaniel r. jones got much less press than kobe. 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I had to look up who that was 😕

With my luck I'll also die on or around the same time as someone really famous and even my family will mourn them more than me. Of course I will have faked my death as to not draw attention to my lack of aging plus you can't hurt steel. 

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16 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Of course I will have faked my death as to not draw attention to my lack of aging plus you can't hurt steel. 

Worked for 'pac.  Well, until he decided to fly on MH370. 

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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47 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Sorry, I meant Nathaniel R Jones not Farrah Fawcett. 

for any interested

https://www.c-span.org/video/?70097-1/judge-nathaniel-jones-tribute

begins at 1:58 and we would recommend listening to at least 8:30ish. should be worth the effort. judge jones speaks at 34:00ish.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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On 1/27/2020 at 3:02 PM, Keyrock said:

I'm with Shady, Skarpen, & Hurlshot. I'm totally cool with pointing out that Kobe once pulled the "oops wrong hole" trick, but maybe not mere hours after the guy died. Give people a couple of days to grieve before breaking out the ol' soapbox.

Honestly, were it not for the fact that the media appears to be trying to canonize him, I'd agree with you.  But the way they're treating him like he was the second coming has made my feelings shift from sad to annoyed.

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7 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:

Honestly, were it not for the fact that the media appears to be trying to canonize him, I'd agree with you.  But the way they're treating him like he was the second coming has made my feelings shift from sad to annoyed.

I'm fine with the media celebrating his basketball accomplishments. I mean, he was one of the greatest of all time, I don't think that's even debatable. Let everybody celebrate him as a phenomenal athlete for a week, then, by all means, feel free to go hard in the paint (pun intended) on the rapist stuff.

Edited by Keyrock

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"What can't be changed must be endured"

Robert Jordan

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