Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Paladin Order Talents

Talents PoE1 Beta

  • Please log in to reply
71 replies to this topic

#41
Yosharian

Yosharian

    (8) Warlock

  • Members
  • 1181 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer

POE1

 

God tiers 

Druid

Wizard

Priest

 

High tiers

Barbarian (with the per encounter of heart of fury)

Ranger

 

Mid tiers

Monk

Cipher

Rogue

Chanter

Barbarian (before heart of the fury per encounter)

 

Trash tiers

Paladin

Fighter

Paladin and Fighter trash tier?

 

This list is complete nonsense...


  • Torm51, daven and Juodas Varnas like this

#42
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 14453 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Well, it's highly subjective. :)


  • Torm51 and Juodas Varnas like this

#43
Taurus

Taurus

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 75 posts
  • Deadfire Gold Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Yet most of "The Ultimate" achievments were done by Paladins... go figure.


  • Torm51 likes this

#44
CottonWolf

CottonWolf

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 400 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Again, entirely subjective, but I think the paladin builds that were used for The Ultimate are incredibly unfun to actually play, ut saying that they're weak is pretty objectively wrong.


  • Torm51 likes this

#45
dunehunter

dunehunter

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2520 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Gold Backer
  • Fig Backer

Imo Paladins in PoE is not trash at all, but don't have a lot synrgies as classes like Barbarians and Monks. One reason is because the gears in PoE prefers glass cannons, for example gear attributes like Spellstrike and Spelldefense synrgies better with offensive classes. And class passive like Carnage, Deathblow are more fun than Faith and Conviction or Constant Recovery for the same reason(I didn't say more powerful, but more fun to play with).

 

Just look at the link of class builds in the PoE subforum and you will see more Barbarian/Monk/Rogue builds than Paladin/Fighter builds, and of more variations.

 

But Fighters/Paladins are more fun in Deadfire as the rules are changed so they are more active now, so I like the changes Devs make so far about these more passive classes.


Edited by dunehunter, 06 February 2018 - 07:30 AM.


#46
KaineParker

KaineParker

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3020 posts
  • Location:Houston, Texas
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
I think most people saying Paladins are bad aren't playing it as a support class and comparing it to martial classes as a damage dealer or tank, in which case it does compare unfavorably. From my time in PoE, Pallengia or a Merc/PC Paladin bring a lot of support in the form of the auras, various exhortations, lay on hands, and Sacred Immolation. Outside of FoD it's certainly not as flashy and won't top damage or crowd control, but does have a good use and the boost to defenses help out a lot in the long-term.

The worst class in PoE is Rogue, which gets beaten out by Cipher and Ranger as a striker and can't really do anything else to make up for it.
  • injurai and Torm51 like this

#47
injurai

injurai

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2301 posts
  • Location:Not the oceans
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Although chanters are even worse than rogues.



#48
dunehunter

dunehunter

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2520 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Gold Backer
  • Fig Backer

Although chanters are even worse than rogues.


LoL are u serious about this?? :)
  • Torm51 likes this

#49
injurai

injurai

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2301 posts
  • Location:Not the oceans
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

 

Although chanters are even worse than rogues.


LoL are u serious about this?? :)

 

 

I'll say a naive build of each, the rogue is more fun.



#50
KaineParker

KaineParker

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3020 posts
  • Location:Houston, Texas
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer

Although chanters are even worse than rogues.

On lower difficulties, given that the fight can be over before you can get a chant off. At higher levels Chanter is a lot more useful than Rogue and really shines in long difficult fights. Comparatively the Rogue just doesn't have the versatility of other damage dealers and is more fragile.

#51
theBalthazar

theBalthazar

    (8) Warlock

  • Members
  • 1148 posts
  • Location:France
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
Ya I didn’t even mention their marking capabilities which is a dragon killer. 

I agree with Boer on fighters on PoTD...that being said I think they are bad ass in Dragon Fights combined with a Paladin marking they can reliably prone a dragon and hit him hard. The Paladin + Fighter is my favorite dragon hunter combo. Fighters can prone dragons better than monks cause of Disciplined Barrage, combined with a Paladin mark it’s really good for knockdowns. A monk has to first have the wounds...which can be dangerous in a dragon fight. 

 

 

Lol... We have play on same game ?

 

Fighter/Paladins are the slowest killer of a dragon.

 

Try a Druid (Main) + Druid + Priest + Wizard + Chanter + Barbarian. (My fav compo glass canon)

 

Wizard or Barbarian replaced by a ranger at my leisure according to the situation.

 

 

Impossible ible to say Fighter or Paladin are better than that during all the game. One of the most effective. Perhaps the best team. I have try others configurations (including paladins and fighters), nothing arrive to that level of synergy.

 

Well, it's highly subjective.  :)

 

 

Obviously. but you put Paladin where ? Apart last ? First of the list ? : p

 

At higher levels Chanter is a lot more useful than Rogue

 

 

Indeed ! If I noted function to level 9+, chanter is easy high tier. Problem, he is really bad level 1-8. So he down a little. So I agree with you. Rogue suffer of the problem of bottleneck effect, except with a fast melee weapon. But in this case, he is extremely fragile. It is a choice, he is not bad, but not crazy.

 

EDIT : And an old assertion :

 

 

The fact alone that a paladin can raise a single ally's accuracy by +46 (Coordinated Attacks + Marking Weapon + Marking Weapon + Zealous Endurance + Inspiring Exhortation), 40 of them stackable with everything, makes him no. 1 support against dragons and other hard-to-hit enemies. Even with only Coordinated Attacks + Marking + ZF it's 26, 20 of them stackable with everything.

 

 

You can have +100 accuracy, nothing replace an AoE attack of wizard, barbarian, priest and Druid. Debuff of wizard/druid, AoE immnuities, fast attack of a cat spiritshifting, +25 % fire damage of chanter+dragon thrashed, and even stormcaller + a pet with a ranger.

 

Yes you crit and you have +50 % fire damage, but one target and very slowly...

 

So yes my tiers list is totally glass cannon oriented. I dislike tank and co. but globally the purpose of the game is to beat foes. Not turn arround : p

 

+ I have no problem to hit dragons. Devotion of the faithul + Debuff of Wizard/Priest/Druid. (very wide choice...)


Edited by theBalthazar, 07 February 2018 - 01:33 AM.


#52
Torm51

Torm51

    (11) Wizard

  • Members
  • 1753 posts
  • Location:Shieldbearer Outpost somewhere in Eora
  • Steam:extol51
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

 

Ya I didn’t even mention their marking capabilities which is a dragon killer. 

I agree with Boer on fighters on PoTD...that being said I think they are bad ass in Dragon Fights combined with a Paladin marking they can reliably prone a dragon and hit him hard. The Paladin + Fighter is my favorite dragon hunter combo. Fighters can prone dragons better than monks cause of Disciplined Barrage, combined with a Paladin mark it’s really good for knockdowns. A monk has to first have the wounds...which can be dangerous in a dragon fight. 

 

 

Lol... We have play on same game ?

 

Fighter/Paladins are the slowest killer of a dragon.

 

Try a Druid (Main) + Druid + Priest + Wizard + Chanter + Barbarian. (My fav compo glass canon)

 

Wizard or Barbarian replaced by a ranger at my leisure according to the situation.

 

 

Impossible ible to say Fighter or Paladin are better than that during all the game. One of the most effective. Perhaps the best team. I have try others configurations (including paladins and fighters), nothing arrive to that level of synergy.

 

Well, it's highly subjective.  :)

 

 

Obviously. but you put Paladin where ? Apart last ? First of the list ? : p

 

At higher levels Chanter is a lot more useful than Rogue

 

 

Indeed ! If I noted function to level 9+, chanter is easy high tier. Problem, he is really bad level 1-8. So he down a little. So I agree with you. Rogue suffer of the problem of bottleneck effect, except with a fast melee weapon. But in this case, he is extremely fragile. It is a choice, he is not bad, but not crazy.

 

EDIT : And an old assertion :

 

 

The fact alone that a paladin can raise a single ally's accuracy by +46 (Coordinated Attacks + Marking Weapon + Marking Weapon + Zealous Endurance + Inspiring Exhortation), 40 of them stackable with everything, makes him no. 1 support against dragons and other hard-to-hit enemies. Even with only Coordinated Attacks + Marking + ZF it's 26, 20 of them stackable with everything.

 

 

You can have +100 accuracy, nothing replace an AoE attack of wizard, barbarian, priest and Druid. Debuff of wizard/druid, AoE immnuities, fast attack of a cat spiritshifting, +25 % fire damage of chanter+dragon thrashed, and even stormcaller + a pet with a ranger.

 

Yes you crit and you have +50 % fire damage, but one target and very slowly...

 

So yes my tiers list is totally glass cannon oriented. I dislike tank and co. but globally the purpose of the game is to beat foes. Not turn arround : p

 

+ I have no problem to hit dragons. Devotion of the faithul + Debuff of Wizard/Priest/Druid. (very wide choice...)

 

Definitely not the fastest dragon killers.  They can just reliably keep a dragon out of the fight together.  Thanks to huge ACC boosts and Prone.  If you stack this like you said with priest buffs (which you can) The fighter will have a HUGE ACC bonus and not only prone the Dragon but kill him in a good amount of time while the dragon is doing nothing cause he is prone.

 

There are many ways to skin a cat so yes the other ways you mentioned to kill a dragon are definitely effective.  That being said if you play PoTD you will need more than 100 Accuracy to reliably CC a dragon or tough enemy.  You can achieve this in one way by stacking Paladin ACC marking with Devotions of the Faithful.  So ya priest is great.  Also yes Druid and Wizard are AWESOME for AOE and downing trash mobs.  A paladin can also help here with Sacred Immolation.

 

I do not think anything you said is wrong in your second post but your first tier post is subjective.

 

PS just finished a Triple Crown Party play through and the Paladin was 3rd in damage (154k total not terrible as that is not his main purpose) behind the storm tank druid second (156k) and 1st place low and behold the Great Weapon (Tidefall) Fighter with 220k total.  So a two handed fighter destroyed both the Paladin (not surprising) and the Druid. Granted if i had made the druid a Shapes shifter DW shock lash full damage dealer the fighter likely would not have won but I took the safe route.


Edited by Torm51, 07 February 2018 - 10:30 AM.


#53
Torm51

Torm51

    (11) Wizard

  • Members
  • 1753 posts
  • Location:Shieldbearer Outpost somewhere in Eora
  • Steam:extol51
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Again, entirely subjective, but I think the paladin builds that were used for The Ultimate are incredibly unfun to actually play, ut saying that they're weak is pretty objectively wrong.

This.  



#54
Taurus

Taurus

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 75 posts
  • Deadfire Gold Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Do glass cannons builds work on PoTD?



#55
Torm51

Torm51

    (11) Wizard

  • Members
  • 1753 posts
  • Location:Shieldbearer Outpost somewhere in Eora
  • Steam:extol51
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Do glass cannons builds work on PoTD?


You can win with glass cannons with enough CC on PoTD. I just play different. Every single one of my back liners has some emergency ability that makes them much harder to hit or unhittable for a duration. Just in case they take heat. This gives me time to CC or focus fire the offending enemy.

Edited by Torm51, 07 February 2018 - 03:10 PM.


#56
KDubya

KDubya

    (10) Necromancer

  • Members
  • 1543 posts
  • Deadfire Backer

 

Do glass cannons builds work on PoTD?


You can win with glass cannons with enough CC on PoTD. I just play different. Every single one of my back liners has some emergency ability that makes them much harder to hit or unhittable for a duration. Just in case they take heat. This gives me time to CC or focus fire the offending enemy.

 

 

It also greatly depends on how you view knockouts and resting. I try to finish a PoTD run through with as few KO as possible so I favor durable builds like monks, paladins and Chanters while avoiding any glass cannons or even casters and priests to keep the difficulty up.

 

My teams might not even have any backline, everyone is a frontline melee with mutual support from auras, chants, and healing (from the consecrated boots). If no one is squishy then no one has to be defended.


  • Torm51 likes this

#57
theBalthazar

theBalthazar

    (8) Warlock

  • Members
  • 1148 posts
  • Location:France
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Glass cannons = C.C. for me.

 

And the fastest way to finish a battle. (purpose of the game).

 

Paladin 154 k. hum...

 

All depends the way to play. There is a problem if paladin = druid. You use a lot a spells ?


  • Torm51 likes this

#58
Torm51

Torm51

    (11) Wizard

  • Members
  • 1753 posts
  • Location:Shieldbearer Outpost somewhere in Eora
  • Steam:extol51
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Glass cannons = C.C. for me.

 

And the fastest way to finish a battle. (purpose of the game).

 

Paladin 154 k. hum...

 

All depends the way to play. There is a problem if paladin = druid. You use a lot a spells ?

Ya not a terrible amount of damage for a non damage dealer I say.  Sacred Immolation man! What Impressed me was the Great Weapon Fighter. 220k is really good.  Its start SHOOTING high when you give the Fighter Charge.  I would target his last enemy on the charge with my paladin, marking him (you do not have to be in melee range) just have the target selected and Eder would hit/crit everything on the way for about 80 to 100 damage and have crits in the 180s.   He also most of the time had Devotions of the Faithful so it was about a +40 to ACC with Disciplined Barrage lol.  Hit  Concelhaut for like 200 Crush damage, he then took a fire crit from sacred immolation for about 80 and a sunlance crit and he was dead WAY before his buddies lmao.

 

On the druid I just played it safe with a Storm tank.  So yes if I would of gone spirit shift duel wield the druid would of DEFINITELY beat the paladin and the fighter.  Again i went the safe route, Weapon and shield style and all saves talents, then just stand in the middle of the mob firing off storms.  In a tough fight I would also use avenging storm with a dagger, always used a buckler so very quick hits.  Also yes I would stand the druid in the middle and spam spells in hard fights.  


Edited by Torm51, 08 February 2018 - 06:58 AM.


#59
fiddlesticks

fiddlesticks

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 117 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Gold Backer
  • Fig Backer

Again, entirely subjective, but I think the paladin builds that were used for The Ultimate are incredibly unfun to actually play, ut saying that they're weak is pretty objectively wrong.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say "unfun". They're slow at the beginning, but that's true of solo PotD in general. They can hold their own well enough and once you pick up Sacred Immolation at level 13, you become an engine of destruction.

 

Which brings up something that is often ignored in these tier discussions: class balance is not constant across all levels. Considering the prevalent view on these forums seems to be that the early game is the hardest part on PotD, shouldn't we rate classes like Monk or Ranger, which start out very powerful, higher than the Priest, which takes a few levels to unlock its full potential? What about the Barbarian whose power depends as much on equipment as on Abilities. Or the Chanter for whom the difference between level 8 and 9 is night and day?

 

On top of that, how much does effort factor into the power discussion? Priests are undeniably strong, but buffing up for every important fight can quickly become tedious. A Fighter with high Lore is a better wizard than the actual Wizard, but that requires you to spend time on the crafting system. On the other end of the spectrum you have Chanters, which a lot of players dislike precisely because they require little to no effort to use.


  • Torm51 likes this

#60
Torm51

Torm51

    (11) Wizard

  • Members
  • 1753 posts
  • Location:Shieldbearer Outpost somewhere in Eora
  • Steam:extol51
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Again, entirely subjective, but I think the paladin builds that were used for The Ultimate are incredibly unfun to actually play, ut saying that they're weak is pretty objectively wrong.


I wouldn't necessarily say "unfun". They're slow at the beginning, but that's true of solo PotD in general. They can hold their own well enough and once you pick up Sacred Immolation at level 13, you become an engine of destruction.

Which brings up something that is often ignored in these tier discussions: class balance is not constant across all levels. Considering the prevalent view on these forums seems to be that the early game is the hardest part on PotD, shouldn't we rate classes like Monk or Ranger, which start out very powerful, higher than the Priest, which takes a few levels to unlock its full potential? What about the Barbarian whose power depends as much on equipment as on Abilities. Or the Chanter for whom the difference between level 8 and 9 is night and day?

On top of that, how much does effort factor into the power discussion? Priests are undeniably strong, but buffing up for every important fight can quickly become tedious. A Fighter with high Lore is a better wizard than the actual Wizard, but that requires you to spend time on the crafting system. On the other end of the spectrum you have Chanters, which a lot of players dislike precisely because they require little to no effort to use.

Very true.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Talents, PoE1, Beta

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users