Politics Thread: Silicon Valley Edition

[Volourn]

"I think Ben is assuming vigilante justice will happen with their names and addresses being leaked more than he's sad kiddie diddlers can't teach, essentially doxing by the government. I won't lose any sleep over some pedo getting killed, but the government releasing personal information is worrying enough. "

 

If such a murder happens, the family should sue the gov't. It would serve them right.

[smjjames]

"How is that a bad thing? Why would you want schools to employ people with that sort of background?"

 

old poachers become the best gamekeepers

 

I get the idea behind what you're saying, as in 'it takes a thief to know a thief' or in a modern twist, 'it takes a hacker to know a hacker'. But how do you make sure people in that kind of environment don't re-offend? And I'm not talking about those who simply did a dumb thing that one time.

[Malcador]

How is that a bad thing? Why would you want schools to employ people with that sort of background?

You didn't think that maybe he's worried that it will lead to vigilantism ? Or could just not be cool with such information being given out freely, that sword cuts many ways.

 

As an aside, what the heck is with the Confederate Flag being used in a signature here ?

Edited January 3, 2018 by Malcador

[Volourn]

Get over the flag. Don't get TRIGGERED fellow Kanadian.  The flag can't hurt you.

[smjjames]

Sharp_one isn't actively trying to hurt anyone with it. It's not bothering me and I know he's not the type of raging (American*) nationalist that the flag is usually associated with.

 

Besides, he's Polish, so, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt about knowing the full story behind it, unless he has researched it.

 

*He's a raging Polish nationalist, there's a difference. And I say that with a bit of good natured humor.

 

It's up to the mods and Obsidian whether they're okay with it.

Edited January 3, 2018 by smjjames

[Malcador]

Get over the flag. Don't get TRIGGERED fellow Kanadian.  The flag can't hurt you.

Right. Just puzzling in a funny way, like some Canadian flying it. Granted some of those meshbacks are actually serious about identifying with "Southern culture". Makes no sense, but Canadians are a pretty stupid people, so...

[Hurlshort]

Just sharpie trying to be sharp. 

 

The US has been doing this for awhile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megan%27s_Law

[Lexx]

'Murica is way too stupidly harsh with this kind of stuff. If you can land on a public shame list with the worst of them all just because you made some nekked pic in your teenage years, or peed in public, which then might ruin your entire life, it's just a tad too much (except if you're rich and have influence, then suddenly your name won't appear on the list at all).

 

But then again, it kinda fits their "everyone belongs to prison"-kind of way of life.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Lexx

[Zoraptor]

Said it in the other thread but Sharpie is just supporting brave freedom loving Novorossiya in their struggle against tyranny. Slav solidarity and all that.

[Ben No.3]

Hah! We can’t talk about economics without people telling me big government will lead to a dictatorship. Yet when government effectively declares its own citizens vogelfrei (a term I can’t find a good translation for; means that laws no longer protect a person and anyone can do anything with them), that’s somehow ok?

 

Being a pedophile is not a crime. Raping children is. Similarly, being a murderer is not a crime, murdering is. Etc. Tell me, how do you imagine people who are on these lists ever going to live the life they are entitled to? “We believe these truths to be inalienable”. That the government ignores this is nothing new. But this time you people stand behind it. You people support completely isolating other people from society, which is identical with making them subject to any sort of abuse. How do you people find this justifiable in any way? In your view, can one fall from grace? Loose his humanity? Loose his ability to suffer? Or do you loose your ability to feel empathy?

 

Society will gain close to nothing from this. These people will loose every chance they had to lead a normal life post sentence. The morals here are obvious. So why is this a question.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Ben No.3

[Chilloutman]

Sorry but this sounds crazy, are you saying that in Germany you actually let pedophiles work with kids?

[Lexx]

No, but this database can be seen by everyone, even your potential boss in a non-child related job, therefore pretty much making it impossible for you to get any job at all.

[Chilloutman]

No, but this database can be seen by everyone, even your potential boss in a non-child related job, therefore pretty much making it impossible for you to get any job at all.

I was responding to this (it sounds like he thinks that it is the bad part?):

 

The data includes pedophiles and especially severe rapists.

Furthermore, any school employing one of these people is threatened with fines or prison.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Chilloutman

[Ben No.3]

 

No, but this database can be seen by everyone, even your potential boss in a non-child related job, therefore pretty much making it impossible for you to get any job at all.

I was responding to this (it sounds like he thinks that it is the bad part?):

 

The data includes pedophiles and especially severe rapists.

Furthermore, any school employing one of these people is threatened with fines or prison.

it underlines the severeness of the issue. If you actually publicly threaten someone if they should employ pedophiles, that won’t exactly help the pedophiles to lead a normal life

[Ben No.3]

 

Hah! We can’t talk about economics without people telling me big government will lead to a dictatorship. Yet when government effectively declares its own citizens vogelfrei (a term I can’t find a good translation for; means that laws no longer protect a person and anyone can do anything with them), that’s somehow ok?

 

Being a pedophile is not a crime. Raping children is. Similarly, being a murderer is not a crime, murdering is. Etc. Tell me, how do you imagine people who are on these lists ever going to live the life they are entitled to? “We believe these truths to be inalienable”. That the government ignores this is nothing new. But this time you people stand behind it. You people support completely isolating other people from society, which is identical with making them subject to any sort of abuse. How do you people find this justifiable in any way? In your view, can one fall from grace? Loose his humanity? Loose his ability to suffer? Or do you loose your ability to feel empathy?

 

Society will gain close to nothing from this. These people will loose every chance they had to lead a normal life post sentence. The morals here are obvious. So why is this a question.

Sooooo, the crime should be punished but not the criminal? How would that work? We put murder in prison but not the murderer?

 

BTW. Isn't "You people" a racists term?

no, we punish someone for the crimes he committed, not the ones he might presumably commit in the future. We punish someone for the rape he committed. After he served his time in jail, he’s a free man. No further punishment. Thus, we punish him for the act (raping) rather than his personal history (being a rapist). If the latter was the case, this would mean a life long sentence and societal isolation. Rapists are capable of suffering too, and thereby equally worth in any moral consideration as any other such being. Adequate punishment can be justified; but effectively stripping someone if his humanity can hardly be called adequate.

[Chilloutman]

 

 

No, but this database can be seen by everyone, even your potential boss in a non-child related job, therefore pretty much making it impossible for you to get any job at all.

I was responding to this (it sounds like he thinks that it is the bad part?):

 

The data includes pedophiles and especially severe rapists.

Furthermore, any school employing one of these people is threatened with fines or prison.

 

it underlines the severeness of the issue. If you actually publicly threaten someone if they should employ pedophiles, that won’t exactly help the pedophiles to lead a normal life

 

So lets get this stright, you are ok with pedophiles being employed in schools?

[Malcador]

Hm, people seem to have the wrong idea about why foreign aid is given.

[Blarghagh]

I don't disagree with registered sex offenders with diagnoses regarding children shouldn't work in schools and such, even if they've been treated since psychiatric treatment is not an exact science. Some database searchable by school administrators? Sure.

 

I do disagree with the list of sex offenders being made public for every tom, richard and harry with a grudge. If they're registered, they had their state-sanctioned reprecussions and this seems to me the first step to sheer persecution. Next, other mentally ill? Any criminal? Handicapped? Trans? Jews? Blacks? The gays? Dissidents? This looks like the kind of thing the alt-right fears from SJWs.

[Ben No.3]

 

 

 

No, but this database can be seen by everyone, even your potential boss in a non-child related job, therefore pretty much making it impossible for you to get any job at all.

I was responding to this (it sounds like he thinks that it is the bad part?):

 

The data includes pedophiles and especially severe rapists.

Furthermore, any school employing one of these people is threatened with fines or prison.

it underlines the severeness of the issue. If you actually publicly threaten someone if they should employ pedophiles, that won’t exactly help the pedophiles to lead a normal life

So lets get this stright, you are ok with pedophiles being employed in schools?

I’m perfectly fine with a pedophile (being, someone who is attracted to children) being employed at a school. I’m not okay with him raping the children. Similarly: I’m okay with straight male professors teaching female students at uni. I’m not okay with him raping his students. Being attracted to someone is very different from raping or even just having sex with someone. I think Sharp one once said he harassed his female employees (or someone said he said this). I don’t have a problem with sharp being straight, I have a problem with him harassing his employees.

 

That being said, these lists of corse only contain known sex offenders. So that’s a different question, and I haven’t thought about it thoroughly enough to give an appropriate answer

Edited January 3, 2018 by Ben No.3

[Chilloutman]

I don't know where you worked but everyone in our company and company i worked before have to go through background checks involving criminal records...

[Ben No.3]

I don't know where you worked but everyone in our company and company i worked before have to go through background checks involving criminal records...

being attracted to children is not the same as raping them though.

I did clarify my previous post though

 

And I think it’s very debatable to what extend or if at all employees should have insight into ones criminal history. If criminals can’t find jobs, they’ll stay criminals.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Ben No.3

[Chilloutman]

jesus, next time protest in Zoo that tigers are in different coop than lamas

[Ben No.3]

A pedophile who has never harmed anyone obviously has the same access to everything as anyone else. Why is this a question? In all likelihood, we’ll never even know this guy was a pedophile.

[Ben No.3]

jesus, next time protest in Zoo that tigers are in different coop than lamas

see, this is a poorly chosen example. Tigers have to kill to live; pedophiles don’t have to follow up on their desires.

 

If a pedophile never does anything even remotely illegal, then it is of course immoral to exclude him from society. Society gains nothing from it, but he looses practically everything that enables his existence as an individual. No gain, lots of harm.

 

 

Again, with convicts, this might be different and I frankly don’t know enough about how pedophilia works to make a sensible assessment. But excluding someone for being a pedophile (not for the act of raping children) seems wrong

[smjjames]

Said it in the other thread but Sharpie is just supporting brave freedom loving Novorossiya in their struggle against tyranny. Slav solidarity and all that.

 

It wasn't the Novorossiya flag. Seems he's removed it anyway.

 

 

 

Hah! We can’t talk about economics without people telling me big government will lead to a dictatorship. Yet when government effectively declares its own citizens vogelfrei (a term I can’t find a good translation for; means that laws no longer protect a person and anyone can do anything with them), that’s somehow ok?

 

Being a pedophile is not a crime. Raping children is. Similarly, being a murderer is not a crime, murdering is. Etc. Tell me, how do you imagine people who are on these lists ever going to live the life they are entitled to? “We believe these truths to be inalienable”. That the government ignores this is nothing new. But this time you people stand behind it. You people support completely isolating other people from society, which is identical with making them subject to any sort of abuse. How do you people find this justifiable in any way? In your view, can one fall from grace? Loose his humanity? Loose his ability to suffer? Or do you loose your ability to feel empathy?

 

Society will gain close to nothing from this. These people will loose every chance they had to lead a normal life post sentence. The morals here are obvious. So why is this a question.

 

Sooooo, the crime should be punished but not the criminal? How would that work? We put murder in prison but not the murderer?

 

BTW. Isn't "You people" a racists term?

 

 

No idea where you get the idea that 'you people' is a racist term, he's just trying to refer to the rest of us, though it may be particularily at the US.