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Rubbish melee animations


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#21
Sedrefilos

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Well, being an animator doesen't mean you know anything about HEMA and working on an iso-style game without motion capture and limited budget...

Maybe we'll see some more love to them before release, though.

Pommel strike is nice - I don't believe there is a universal "realistic" way to pommel strike someone :p


Edited by Sedrefilos, 22 November 2017 - 08:31 AM.

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#22
injurai

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I'd take more variations that are distinct visual cues for different types of attacks over merely having better or more realistic animations.


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#23
Juodas Varnas

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Well, being an animator doesen't mean you know anything about HEMA and working on an iso-style game without motion capture and limited budget...

Maybe we'll see some more love to them before release, though.

Pommel strike is nice - I don't believe there is a universal "realistic" way to pommel strike someone :p

Obviously the best way to pommel strike someone is to unscrew the pommel and throw it!

9vX0enn.jpg


Edited by Juodas Varnas, 22 November 2017 - 09:22 AM.

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#24
cheesevillain

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No, no, no, I'm not asking for motion capture or any of that expensive stuff, I'm asking one simple thing, attention.

 

I kind of wish that they put more effort in the animation.

 

You guys say effort and attention, but that translates into lots and lots of money and lots and lots of time.

 

AGAIN I'm not asking for a motion capture or anything like that, but if they can do animations of big and ugly swings they can do something like the video.

 

 

They probably can't do that as easily. The style of animation was probably picked in part based on what was cheaper to animate.

 



#25
cheesevillain

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Pommel strike is nice - I don't believe there is a universal "realistic" way to pommel strike someone :p

 

 

I like the pommel strike as well. It looks "realistic" to me. Irrc, pommel strikes were a real thing, and were typical with heavier two-handed swords.

However, some people look like they have a problem with the general animation in general being too cartoonish. Is that the case here?



#26
Lephys

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 Obviously the best way to pommel strike someone is to unscrew the pommel and throw it!

 

No no! You must summon forth a bolt of pure pommel from the heavens! It's the new Wizard spell for Wizards who don't like lightning.

 

OOH! Or what if it was a sword made out of lightning that crashed down pommel-first into the target's temple? :)



#27
cheesevillain

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 Obviously the best way to pommel strike someone is to unscrew the pommel and throw it!

 

No no! You must summon forth a bolt of pure pommel from the heavens! It's the new Wizard spell for Wizards who don't like lightning.

 

OOH! Or what if it was a sword made out of lightning that crashed down pommel-first into the target's temple? :)

 

 

 

It must be named "Pummel with Pommel".


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#28
molotov.

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They probably can't do that as easily. The style of animation was probably picked in part based on what was cheaper to animate.

 

 

I don't get it, please explain the reason to why they can make a big swing from left to right but they can't make that swing more pratical like in the video. Again, I'm not asking for anything fancy just a proper swing. The arbalest and crossbow animations are perfect, why the greatsword or the sword and shield can't have a basic but solid animation? Why they have to put the shield aside when doing a strike, why the strike has to be a big swing?! WHY?! Why they can't make some melee skills for the fighter? Like a front kick or punch?! Why we have to be so damn boring to look at?


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#29
cheesevillain

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Why they have to put the shield aside when doing a strike, why the strike has to be a big swing?! WHY?! Why they can't make some melee skills for the fighter? Like a front kick or punch?! Why we have to be so damn boring to look at?

 

 

If you have a problem with the style of fighting, that's fine. I don't agree personally, but I won't try to change your mind.

People often phrase these things as if a difference between taste in these things is a product of the devs being "lazy", or a lack of "effort" or "attention", as if the industry standard for video game devs wasn't non-stop 7 day-a-week crunch. But they obviously shared that pommel strike in the video because they thought it was good.


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#30
kierun

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In this  Hellblade developer diary about combat, you can find out just how hard motion capture for combat actually is. Unreal 4 is not Unity for sure, so what applies to Unreal does not necessarily translate to Unity. However, it should give you a glimpse into how hard motion in general is.

No, no, no, I'm not asking for motion capture or any of that expensive stuff, I'm asking one simple thing, attention.

 

You said that you had no idea how hard it was. I was just providing an example of how hard it actually is.

 

You can download Unity yourself and add the animation yourself… ☺


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#31
Nail

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Really, they could do a bit better job.

It's not crucial though.

There are so many experts who would be happy to consult...

Take this one for instance:

Skallagrim


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#32
daven

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Sorry guys we're not allowed to say we'd like better animations because these complete strangers over the internet say obsidian are too poor to make them.

 

Let's just always accept what we're given, never question anything or want something better.


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#33
molotov.

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Why they have to put the shield aside when doing a strike, why the strike has to be a big swing?! WHY?! Why they can't make some melee skills for the fighter? Like a front kick or punch?! Why we have to be so damn boring to look at?

 

 

If you have a problem with the style of fighting, that's fine. I don't agree personally, but I won't try to change your mind.

People often phrase these things as if a difference between taste in these things is a product of the devs being "lazy", or a lack of "effort" or "attention", as if the industry standard for video game devs wasn't non-stop 7 day-a-week crunch. But they obviously shared that pommel strike in the video because they thought it was good.

 

Style of fighting? Using a shield and putting it aside when attacking is a style now? So why would you even use a shield? It's clear to me that you don't give a **** to fighters, barbarians and rogues, so why you are in this thread? Are you trying to change my mind? Are you defending the devs even thought they are not even paying attention to this thread? But hey, if you are that kind of person that leaves the tank unattended for the entirety of the fight that is your problem, there are a lot of people that actually likes to play with the tank and the gameplay is boring as ****, with cyphers you have a laser beam that can melt enemies in the meantime for the fighter you have a kick that don't even have an animation...

So... if I follow your logic I can't ask for something cheap because they already work so much? Uh... I'll say that to my next client at the airport, he will be really pleased.

But let me ask you, you think it's cheaper to make a wall of fire than to move a character arm to the right location when attacking?



#34
Wormerine

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Why they have to put the shield aside when doing a strike, why the strike has to be a big swing?! WHY?! Why they can't make some melee skills for the fighter? Like a front kick or punch?! Why we have to be so damn boring to look at?

 
 
If you have a problem with the style of fighting, that's fine. I don't agree personally, but I won't try to change your mind.
People often phrase these things as if a difference between taste in these things is a product of the devs being "lazy", or a lack of "effort" or "attention", as if the industry standard for video game devs wasn't non-stop 7 day-a-week crunch. But they obviously shared that pommel strike in the video because they thought it was good.
Style of fighting? Using a shield and putting it aside when attacking is a style now? So why would you even use a shield? It's clear to me that you don't give a **** to fighters, barbarians and rogues, so why you are in this thread? Are you trying to change my mind? Are you defending the devs even thought they are not even paying attention to this thread? But hey, if you are that kind of person that leaves the tank unattended for the entirety of the fight that is your problem, there are a lot of people that actually likes to play with the tank and the gameplay is boring as ****, with cyphers you have a laser beam that can melt enemies in the meantime for the fighter you have a kick that don't even have an animation...
So... if I follow your logic I can't ask for something cheap because they already work so much? Uh... I'll say that to my next client at the airport, he will be really pleased.
But let me ask you, you think it's cheaper to make a wall of fire than to move a character arm to the right location when attacking?

Well, that escalated quickly.
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#35
molotov.

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Why they have to put the shield aside when doing a strike, why the strike has to be a big swing?! WHY?! Why they can't make some melee skills for the fighter? Like a front kick or punch?! Why we have to be so damn boring to look at?

 
 
If you have a problem with the style of fighting, that's fine. I don't agree personally, but I won't try to change your mind.
People often phrase these things as if a difference between taste in these things is a product of the devs being "lazy", or a lack of "effort" or "attention", as if the industry standard for video game devs wasn't non-stop 7 day-a-week crunch. But they obviously shared that pommel strike in the video because they thought it was good.
Style of fighting? Using a shield and putting it aside when attacking is a style now? So why would you even use a shield? It's clear to me that you don't give a **** to fighters, barbarians and rogues, so why you are in this thread? Are you trying to change my mind? Are you defending the devs even thought they are not even paying attention to this thread? But hey, if you are that kind of person that leaves the tank unattended for the entirety of the fight that is your problem, there are a lot of people that actually likes to play with the tank and the gameplay is boring as ****, with cyphers you have a laser beam that can melt enemies in the meantime for the fighter you have a kick that don't even have an animation...
So... if I follow your logic I can't ask for something cheap because they already work so much? Uh... I'll say that to my next client at the airport, he will be really pleased.
But let me ask you, you think it's cheaper to make a wall of fire than to move a character arm to the right location when attacking?

Well, that escalated quickly.

 

That wasn't quickly at all, all your responses can resume to this sentence: I don't care.

It's all the same, every single time... I ask 4 question and someone answer just one of them in a smart ass way and then goes away like they won some competition - you did that in your last response -, I asked 6 question... and to how many did you respond? If you are not here to help or to make a good argument I can't think of a reason to why you are still in this topic.



#36
Wormerine

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Well, that escalated quickly.

 

That wasn't quickly at all, all your responses can resume to this sentence: I don't care.

It's all the same, every single time... I ask 4 question and someone answer just one of them in a smart ass way and then goes away like they won some competition - you did that in your last response -, I asked 6 question... and to how many did you respond? If you are not here to help or to make a good argument I can't think of a reason to why you are still in this topic.

 

To be honest I made my "me" character in Wasteland 2 have max "Smart-Ass" skill for a reason.

And yes: I don't care as long the animation will serve well mechanics. Here is hoping for you that Obsidian will find some time to revisit and polish animations and they end up being more to your liking. Cheers!


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#37
Juodas Varnas

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I'd personally wouldn't call the animations "rubbish"

Because they're not - they're basic.

 

I mean, sure, they're not exactly REALISTIC or HISTORICALLY AUTHENTIC FIGHTING STYLES, but i mean, i don't think they're meant to be. I think that they're meant to be easily visible and obvious from the distant isometric camera perspective.

If the game was a third person hack-n-slash, i'd probably want something different, but for an isometric cRPG, i believe they're perfectly suitable.


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#38
Sedrefilos

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Come on, not everyone is a HEMA enthusiast. I know pushing your shield at the side while attacking is bad tactics but this is a game and most people want style over realism. I don't care much, although I'd love to see more realistic animations too.

If this was an action game where opponent blows would actually be blocked by my shield I would have been annoyed if attacking pushed it away, but here is mostly for the looks since blocking is happening wether the animation is shown or not. It would have been cool to actually see the shield blocking the attack but I don't know if all this would blend well with the simulationistic mechanics of the game.


Edited by Sedrefilos, 23 November 2017 - 10:50 AM.

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#39
cheesevillain

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Sorry guys we're not allowed to say we'd like better animations because these complete strangers over the internet say obsidian are too poor to make them.

 

Let's just always accept what we're given, never question anything or want something better.

 

Sorry dudes, you're right. I derailed the conversation.

 

 

 

 

Style of fighting? Using a shield and putting it aside when attacking is a style now? So why would you even use a shield? It's clear to me that you don't give a **** to fighters, barbarians and rogues, so why you are in this thread? Are you trying to change my mind? Are you defending the devs even thought they are not even paying attention to this thread? But hey, if you are that kind of person that leaves the tank unattended for the entirety of the fight that is your problem, there are a lot of people that actually likes to play with the tank and the gameplay is boring as ****, with cyphers you have a laser beam that can melt enemies in the meantime for the fighter you have a kick that don't even have an animation...

So... if I follow your logic I can't ask for something cheap because they already work so much? Uh... I'll say that to my next client at the airport, he will be really pleased.
But let me ask you, you think it's cheaper to make a wall of fire than to move a character arm to the right location when attacking?

Well, that escalated quickly.

 

That wasn't quickly at all, all your responses can resume to this sentence: I don't care.

It's all the same, every single time... I ask 4 question and someone answer just one of them in a smart ass way and then goes away like they won some competition - you did that in your last response -, I asked 6 question... and to how many did you respond? If you are not here to help or to make a good argument I can't think of a reason to why you are still in this topic.

 

 

And I'm really sorry if you read my comments as dismissive or contemptuous. They weren't meant that way. If you're unhappy with the combat animations, by all means, say it loud. Obsidian listens to these forums more closely than you realize.


Edited by cheesevillain, 23 November 2017 - 03:49 PM.


#40
PneumaticFire

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As an unarmed martial arts enthusiast, I use to have this gripe with monks in the older games of this nature.  The animations have improved somewhat since then, but seeing as a monk is meant to the master of unarmed combat, I was very dissatisfied that the animations looked like some drunk guy in a bar fight.   They have improved a fair bit since then but could do with some work.

I also feel the melee, particular the fighter classes, although theyve improved from the rusty robot animations of the original baldurs gate era games, could do with another revamp.

 

One of the main reason in most of the games my first class choice has tended to be a more visually appealing wizard over the sword and board classes. 

 

I'd be happy with more finesse and variety of movement in fighters and similar classes.


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