Will the Barbarian Mage Slayer be as bad as Baldur's Gate's Wizard Slayer?

[PugPug]

 

Gains spell resistance and can disrupt enemy spells, but cannot use potions or scrolls and beneficial spells have shorter durations.

 

 

I mean, the drawback is a lot smaller than that of the Wizard Slayer. But how good are the spell resistance and spell disruption? How often do we face a caster, anyway? In POE1 it was pretty rare, though POE2 looks like it will have more kith foes.

[ntavanga]

from what i see casting takes a lot longer in poe2 so interrupts may be more impactful and easier to perform

[cheesevillain]

Interrupts are no longer a percentage chance, they work automatically, which makes them really powerful (Edit: Mage Slayer doesn't work this way, apparently). The Skulking-Terror Lagufaeth chief in the beta uses Mage Slayer abilities. I sent in a battlemage not knowing this, and he was completely shut down.

 

Casters weren't, and aren't so unusual. For example, some of the Lagufaeth in this beta use arcane spells, but they aren't labelled "Lagufaeth wizard".

Edited November 19, 2017 by cheesevillain

[dunehunter]

Why use mage slayer when u can just one shoot these with a paladin/cipher with Flame of Devotion + arquebus? Just kidding, but the Wizard Slayer in BG2 is bad because they are just outshined by the Inqusitor kit of paladins, since mage in BG2 has a lot protection spells to prevent them get touched, like mirror image and protect from normal/magical weapon, so they are not just easily butchered as they are in POE. Dispel magic is required to be able to damage high level mages in BG2, thats why wizard slayer sucks and inquisitor shines.

 

If AI for mage in POE 2 is improved, they will toss instant prot spell like mirror image and arcane veil at the begin of battle like how mage in bg2 does, then mage slayer will have a hard time to interrupt mage since they require successful melee hit to be able to add Spell Disruption.

Edited November 19, 2017 by dunehunter

[morhilane]

I tried one this morning. I shutdown a Delemgan from summoning a blight and some of the Lagufaeth from casting spells too. I'm not exactly sure how that works. It actually doesn't look like interrupts, the caster gets a "debuff" for 20 seconds.

 

As for the spell resistance, that is actually a defensive bonus to the defense targeted by the spell. At level 6, that's a +11 improvement, but Skulking-Terror has +13 at level 11 so looks like it gets improved by power level increase.

 

I think the defensive bonus should be increased, Paladins have better by just breathing.

[Doppelschwert]

I never used scrolls and potions and seldom buffs from casters, so the mage slayer has no disadvantage for my playstyle. No matter what bonus they'll give it, it will be strictly better for me over a standard barbarian, so I'm pretty satisfied.

 

The defensive bonus is definitely scaling:
LV1: +7

LV2: +7

LV3: +9

LV4: +9

LV5: +11

LV6: +11

Since those align with powerlevels, I'm pretty sure the formula is spell resistance = 5+2*(Mage Slayer PLVL), which would cap them at 23 for single class and 19 for multiclass mage slayers.

 

I'm very grateful for the mageslayer to be in the game for two reasons:

Devoted mage slayer lets me finally play a kensai, and a mage slayer monk is closer to a classic DnD monk as a counter for casters.

 

Before the beta, I was planning on making a kensai with devoted monk, but devoted mage slayer fits the concept much better.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Doppelschwert

[DigitalCrack]

I like the Mage Slayer. Its the Barbarian sub I usually take when I multiclass a Barbarian. I play him Mobil and just have him rush casters. Especially loved the Mage Slayer/Soul Blade together.

[Nail]

Why use mage slayer when u can just one shoot these with a paladin/cipher with Flame of Devotion + arquebus? Just kidding, but the Wizard Slayer in BG2 is bad because they are just outshined by the Inqusitor kit of paladins, since mage in BG2 has a lot protection spells to prevent them get touched, like mirror image and protect from normal/magical weapon, so they are not just easily butchered as they are in POE. Dispel magic is required to be able to damage high level mages in BG2, thats why wizard slayer sucks and inquisitor shines.

 

If AI for mage in POE 2 is improved, they will toss instant prot spell like mirror image and arcane veil at the begin of battle like how mage in bg2 does, then mage slayer will have a hard time to interrupt mage since they require successful melee hit to be able to add Spell Disruption.

Eh?

In PoE mages have like the best defenses...

With deflection over 200 they aren't so "easily butchered"

[Doxy]

I hope not! Love to slice me some wizards for breakfast.

Spellcasters usually one of the more dangerous enemies in late game and i personally hate em robe wearing snobs with their magics )

[dunehunter]

 

Why use mage slayer when u can just one shoot these with a paladin/cipher with Flame of Devotion + arquebus? Just kidding, but the Wizard Slayer in BG2 is bad because they are just outshined by the Inqusitor kit of paladins, since mage in BG2 has a lot protection spells to prevent them get touched, like mirror image and protect from normal/magical weapon, so they are not just easily butchered as they are in POE. Dispel magic is required to be able to damage high level mages in BG2, thats why wizard slayer sucks and inquisitor shines.

 

If AI for mage in POE 2 is improved, they will toss instant prot spell like mirror image and arcane veil at the begin of battle like how mage in bg2 does, then mage slayer will have a hard time to interrupt mage since they require successful melee hit to be able to add Spell Disruption.

Eh?

In PoE mages have like the best defenses...

With deflection over 200 they aren't so "easily butchered"

 

 

Yeah I'm just kidding, you get the point, if the mage have such high defenses, it's hard for Mage Slayer to touch them, so Spell Disruption is kinda pointless until u can dispel mage's protection.

[PugPug]

Yeah I'm just kidding, you get the point, if the mage have such high defenses, it's hard for Mage Slayer to touch them, so Spell Disruption is kinda pointless until u can dispel mage's protection.

...and if you can dispel the mage’s protection, you can then interrupt with hits and kill him very quickly regardless, bringing us back to the wizard slayer’s problems.

[dunehunter]

 

Yeah I'm just kidding, you get the point, if the mage have such high defenses, it's hard for Mage Slayer to touch them, so Spell Disruption is kinda pointless until u can dispel mage's protection.

...and if you can dispel the mage’s protection, you can then interrupt with hits and kill him very quickly regardless, bringing us back to the wizard slayer’s problems.

 

 

Well the 'real' mage slayer in bg2 is the Inquisitor

 

Edit: I feel Monk is way better than Wizard slayer in killing casters, Monk has a lot cheap interrupt/stun ability that doesn't target deflection, and Rooting pain cause AOE interruption. A monk with single hand weapon is the king of interruption imo.

 

After a few test, I found that ranger might be better than monk for interrupting because blunderbuss provides 5 Interrupt with a primary attack interrupt on hit ability, 10 interrupt with a full attack one. You can interrupt anybody which makes concentration useless under blunderbuss.

Edited December 16, 2017 by dunehunter

[Yosharian]

Yes.  Not being able to chug potions is bad enough, but having very important buffs run out much, much sooner than the rest of the party just sucks major ass.

 

Most of these sub-classes are really ****e, really disappointing so far

 

and you can't even avoid picking one for some of the classes, the priest ones are just godawful

 

(get it? 'god'awful....i'll get me coat)

Edited December 18, 2017 by Yosharian

[Boeroer]

Priests will get changed. Some others might be ok but the beta is too short to really see their value. For example a Wizard Slayer barb might be really handy against groups of casters (remember some bounties in PoE). All his Carnage attacks automatically cause spells to fail. This seems to be pretty good. I personally don't use potions that much anyways and most buffs only for the initial phase of combat. So it seems like it's a good class for me.

 

Others seem to be really bad - or badly implemented - like the Ascendant. But I don't think there are lot of subclasses that are bad.

[SaruNi]

 

 

Why use mage slayer when u can just one shoot these with a paladin/cipher with Flame of Devotion + arquebus? Just kidding, but the Wizard Slayer in BG2 is bad because they are just outshined by the Inqusitor kit of paladins, since mage in BG2 has a lot protection spells to prevent them get touched, like mirror image and protect from normal/magical weapon, so they are not just easily butchered as they are in POE. Dispel magic is required to be able to damage high level mages in BG2, thats why wizard slayer sucks and inquisitor shines.

 

If AI for mage in POE 2 is improved, they will toss instant prot spell like mirror image and arcane veil at the begin of battle like how mage in bg2 does, then mage slayer will have a hard time to interrupt mage since they require successful melee hit to be able to add Spell Disruption.

Eh?

In PoE mages have like the best defenses...

With deflection over 200 they aren't so "easily butchered"

 

 

Yeah I'm just kidding, you get the point, if the mage have such high defenses, it's hard for Mage Slayer to touch them, so Spell Disruption is kinda pointless until u can dispel mage's protection.

 

 

So you open by attacking them from stealth, applying the 20 second disruption effect?... unlike BG mage's protection can't be cast outside combat, with the exception of that one 5th tier spell that only activates once Blooded (so it would still allow the first hit), and the Illusionist's automatic mirror image....

[SaruNi]

 

 

Yeah I'm just kidding, you get the point, if the mage have such high defenses, it's hard for Mage Slayer to touch them, so Spell Disruption is kinda pointless until u can dispel mage's protection.

...and if you can dispel the mage’s protection, you can then interrupt with hits and kill him very quickly regardless, bringing us back to the wizard slayer’s problems.

 

 

Well the 'real' mage slayer in bg2 is the Inquisitor

 

Edit: I feel Monk is way better than Wizard slayer in killing casters, Monk has a lot cheap interrupt/stun ability that doesn't target deflection, and Rooting pain cause AOE interruption. A monk with single hand weapon is the king of interruption imo.

 

After a few test, I found that ranger might be better than monk for interrupting because blunderbuss provides 5 Interrupt with a primary attack interrupt on hit ability, 10 interrupt with a full attack one. You can interrupt anybody which makes concentration useless under blunderbuss.

 

 

It's too bad Barbarian doesn't have PoE 1 Brute Force (target fortitude rather than deflection if fortitude is lower)... at least in the levels shown in the beta.

[dunehunter]

 

 

 

Why use mage slayer when u can just one shoot these with a paladin/cipher with Flame of Devotion + arquebus? Just kidding, but the Wizard Slayer in BG2 is bad because they are just outshined by the Inqusitor kit of paladins, since mage in BG2 has a lot protection spells to prevent them get touched, like mirror image and protect from normal/magical weapon, so they are not just easily butchered as they are in POE. Dispel magic is required to be able to damage high level mages in BG2, thats why wizard slayer sucks and inquisitor shines.

 

If AI for mage in POE 2 is improved, they will toss instant prot spell like mirror image and arcane veil at the begin of battle like how mage in bg2 does, then mage slayer will have a hard time to interrupt mage since they require successful melee hit to be able to add Spell Disruption.

Eh?

In PoE mages have like the best defenses...

With deflection over 200 they aren't so "easily butchered"

Yeah I'm just kidding, you get the point, if the mage have such high defenses, it's hard for Mage Slayer to touch them, so Spell Disruption is kinda pointless until u can dispel mage's protection.

So you open by attacking them from stealth, applying the 20 second disruption effect?... unlike BG mage's protection can't be cast outside combat, with the exception of that one 5th tier spell that only activates once Blooded (so it would still allow the first hit), and the Illusionist's automatic mirror image....

Then why not use assassin

[SaruNi]

 

 

 

 

Why use mage slayer when u can just one shoot these with a paladin/cipher with Flame of Devotion + arquebus? Just kidding, but the Wizard Slayer in BG2 is bad because they are just outshined by the Inqusitor kit of paladins, since mage in BG2 has a lot protection spells to prevent them get touched, like mirror image and protect from normal/magical weapon, so they are not just easily butchered as they are in POE. Dispel magic is required to be able to damage high level mages in BG2, thats why wizard slayer sucks and inquisitor shines.

 

If AI for mage in POE 2 is improved, they will toss instant prot spell like mirror image and arcane veil at the begin of battle like how mage in bg2 does, then mage slayer will have a hard time to interrupt mage since they require successful melee hit to be able to add Spell Disruption.

Eh?

In PoE mages have like the best defenses...

With deflection over 200 they aren't so "easily butchered"

Yeah I'm just kidding, you get the point, if the mage have such high defenses, it's hard for Mage Slayer to touch them, so Spell Disruption is kinda pointless until u can dispel mage's protection.

So you open by attacking them from stealth, applying the 20 second disruption effect?... unlike BG mage's protection can't be cast outside combat, with the exception of that one 5th tier spell that only activates once Blooded (so it would still allow the first hit), and the Illusionist's automatic mirror image....

Then why not use assassin

 

 

Well, I haven't tested it yet myself, but presumably because Carnage AoE can hit multiple casters at once (though they have to be close enough together)... also some enemies with spells/abilities aren't easily one-shotted even by an assassin. And the defensive bonuses could be a major advantage once AI is intelligent enough to use foe-only AoE attacks to try to hit invisible assassins....

[SaruNi]

Oddly enough, the Barbaric Roar upgrade to Barbaric Yell changes it from targeting Will to targeting Fortitude... while not mentioned by the tooltip, the Dragon Leap also targets Fortitude. So the Mage Slayer does have ways to debuff casters with high deflection but low fortitude (or low Will, without the upgrade)....

[SaruNi]

The Mage Slayer anti-spell effect doesn't prevent affected enemies from using Frenzy (at least, not the Skulking Terror's combat frenzy)... but the Mage Slayer penalty affects their own Frenzy duration. (And is bugged to be closer to 60% reduction rather than 50% (assuming it's even supposed to treat barbarian abilities as "spells").)

 

So it doesn't count as a spell for the bonus, but it does for the penalty?...

Edited December 19, 2017 by SaruNi

[KDubya]

The Mage Slayer anti-spell effect doesn't prevent affected enemies from using Frenzy (at least, not the Skulking Terror's combat frenzy)... but the Mage Slayer penalty affects their own Frenzy duration. (And is bugged to be closer to 60% reduction rather than 50% (assuming it's even supposed to treat barbarian abilities as "spells").)

 

So it doesn't count as a spell for the bonus, but it does for the penalty?...

 

You should write that up on the bug forum. 

 

Obsidian should answer and tell us which is right - treating all Berserks as spells or none.

[Andronidas]

Do you guys think it would be viable to do a Sharpshooter/Wizard Slayer even though you lose out on the advantages of carnage and then go bows for the ultimate Ygritte build?

[SaruNi]

Do you guys think it would be viable to do a Sharpshooter/Wizard Slayer even though you lose out on the advantages of carnage and then go bows for the ultimate Ygritte build?

 

Ranged only would also lose out on the advantage of the Mage Slayer effect... it's only applied in melee. Frenzy and Wild Sprint don't have long durations to begin with, so the penalty can be very significant. Barbaric Yell has limited range. Firearms can benefit significantly from upgraded Barbaric Blow (instant extra attack on kill), but bows... not so much (unless you mean crossbows, which do have the nice interrupt modal). The Barbarian passive that lets you interrupt on crit is melee only. The passive that grants bonus stride... doesn't grant very much (10% as opposed to 100% from Wizard spells). On the other hand the only Ranger self-buff with a duration is iirc Evasive Roll. And fast ranged weapons can be used to increase your chance of landing the killing blow and triggering Bloodlust. Berserker Sharpshooter (especially with the bonus penetration from Berserker Frenzy) or Paladin Sharpshooter (+15 all defenses, not just spells) would be better. But if you want to do bow-only Mage Slayer/Sharpshooter for rp reasons and don't mind giving up most of the Mage Slayer and Barbarian abilities... it's not like you'll die quickly or be completely unable to do damage most of the time, if that's what you mean by "viable".... 

Edited December 19, 2017 by SaruNi

[Andronidas]

 

Do you guys think it would be viable to do a Sharpshooter/Wizard Slayer even though you lose out on the advantages of carnage and then go bows for the ultimate Ygritte build?

 

Ranged only would also lose out on the advantage of the Mage Slayer effect... it's only applied in melee. Frenzy and Wild Sprint don't have long durations to begin with, so the penalty can be very significant. Barbaric Yell has limited range. Firearms can benefit significantly from upgraded Barbaric Blow (instant extra attack on kill), but bows... not so much (unless you mean crossbows, which do have the nice interrupt modal). The Barbarian passive that lets you interrupt on crit is melee only. The passive that grants bonus stride... doesn't grant very much (10% as opposed to 100% from Wizard spells). On the other hand the only Ranger self-buff with a duration is iirc Evasive Roll. And fast ranged weapons can be used to increase your chance of landing the killing blow and triggering Bloodlust. Berserker Sharpshooter (especially with the bonus penetration from Berserker Frenzy) or Paladin Sharpshooter (+15 all defenses, not just spells) would be better. But if you want to do bow-only Mage Slayer/Sharpshooter for rp reasons and don't mind giving up most of the Mage Slayer and Barbarian abilities... it's not like you'll die quickly or be completely unable to do damage most of the time, if that's what you mean by "viable".... 

 

Boo But thx for letting me know, I'll have to RP that differently I guess, the Mage Slaying from afar was kinda the point. Maybe I'll just full-class ranger then

[KDubya]

Has anyone tried a Mage Slayer/Monk? I'm curious about how Torment's Reach would interact with Carnage and the Mage Slayer magic blocking. If the magic block applied to the initial target plus the carnage from that attack and then also included applying the magic block to the AoE cone from Torment's that'd be interesting and perhaps more viable?