OrangePulp Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 With the switch of swift strikes to be per-encounter, I feel like early level monk options for using wounds are severely lacking. It seems like, at the least, torment's reach and force of anguish should switch places. Force of anguish is a much more situational ability, as you don't always want to push enemies away. Compared to Pillars 1, we had a choice of swift strikes and torment's reach for wound use at level 1 (both being very useful in a general sense), and then at level 3 getting options for force of anguish, as well as turning wheel for those that would rather sit on wounds and enjoy a passive buff. About the only thing gained in 2 is getting a buffed clarity of agony at tier 2, which is nice, but I'd still rather have an offensive option at that point than a defensive one. All this may seem somewhat moot once players get higher level, but multiclassing does keep you in lower tier abilities longer, so I think it's an important concern. I feel like 'knock target back a significant distance' should not be the only way to offensively spend wounds for as many as 6 character levels on a multiclass monk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesevillain Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) Agreed. I'm loving the 4 or so new ways for monks to get wounds. It should really open up the class to many single-class and multi-class builds, but there's not all that much to do with those wounds. In the early levels, you can use Torment's reach and Force of Anguish, which are good abilities, but I'm finding there's not a whole lot of synergy with them and some classes. (of course, those wounds are usefull for Helwalkers. Helwalker/Rogue is a really mean combination.) Do you guys really think we need both a wound pool and a mortification pool? Edited November 17, 2017 by cheesevillain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangePulp Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 To be honest even helwalker seems kinda weak; 1 might per wound as 3% additive damage, stacking with all the other additive you might have (which includes transcendent suffering now, it seems), compared to the old turning wheel which was 5% lash per wound, a multiplicative bonus. Not to mention taking 5% more damage per wound is pretty rough; can get 'free' wounds with that stance, if you're not getting hit, but the penalty for an enemy turning their gaze on you seems pretty high. And yeah, the mortification/wound thing seems kinda odd to me, at least as it currently is. Granted, monk always had some per-encounter/per-rest abilities, but I'm not sure they split very well with that system. If anything, I'd think force of anguish would be mortification, and swift strikes a wound ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesevillain Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) To be honest even helwalker seems kinda weak; 1 might per wound as 3% additive damage, stacking with all the other additive you might have (which includes transcendent suffering now, it seems), compared to the old turning wheel which was 5% lash per wound, a multiplicative bonus. Not to mention taking 5% more damage per wound is pretty rough; can get 'free' wounds with that stance, if you're not getting hit, but the penalty for an enemy turning their gaze on you seems pretty high. And yeah, the mortification/wound thing seems kinda odd to me, at least as it currently is. Granted, monk always had some per-encounter/per-rest abilities, but I'm not sure they split very well with that system. If anything, I'd think force of anguish would be mortification, and swift strikes a wound ability. I've noodled around with the Helwalker, and while it is a glass cannon, it sure doesn't feel weak to me when I've played it. It's especially mean when multi-classed, say, with a Cipher or a Sharpshooter. You have to remember that buffs stack more easily in PoE2. So the Helwalker can simultaneously enjoy the buff to his might from his wounds, as well as from a priest, and so forth. It's not hard to get him shooting arrows like thunderbolts. It's also just dandy that we now have a ranged monk build, which we did not have in the first game. Edited November 17, 2017 by cheesevillain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Sure we had. The Long Pain is the best ranged weapon in PoE. I really miss my Turning Wheel. Where did it go? And WHY? Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangePulp Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 To be honest even helwalker seems kinda weak; 1 might per wound as 3% additive damage, stacking with all the other additive you might have (which includes transcendent suffering now, it seems), compared to the old turning wheel which was 5% lash per wound, a multiplicative bonus. Not to mention taking 5% more damage per wound is pretty rough; can get 'free' wounds with that stance, if you're not getting hit, but the penalty for an enemy turning their gaze on you seems pretty high. And yeah, the mortification/wound thing seems kinda odd to me, at least as it currently is. Granted, monk always had some per-encounter/per-rest abilities, but I'm not sure they split very well with that system. If anything, I'd think force of anguish would be mortification, and swift strikes a wound ability. I've noodled around with the Helwalker, and while it is a glass cannon, it sure doesn't feel weak to me when I've played it. It's especially mean when multi-classed, say, with a Cipher or a Sharpshooter. You have to remember that buffs stack more easily in PoE2. So the Helwalker can simultaneously enjoy the buff to his might from his wounds, as well as from a priest, and so forth. It's not hard to get him shooting arrows like thunderbolts. It's also just dandy that we now have a ranged monk build, which we did not have in the first game. Is this based around using that ability that generates accuracy and wounds? I'll admit I hadn't thought much about that from a pure ranged perspective. Otherwise I'm not sure how you'd generate wounds, the mortify self thing seems insufficient. Sure we had. The Long Pain is the best ranged weapon in PoE. I really miss my Turning Wheel. Where did it go? And WHY? If turning wheel is out due to helwalker monk, which is my suspicion as they accomplish something of the same thing, I'll be very disappointed. It was so good. Really liked holding wounds for 50% burn lash as an alternative to torment spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesevillain Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) Is this based around using that ability that generates accuracy and wounds? I'll admit I hadn't thought much about that from a pure ranged perspective. Otherwise I'm not sure how you'd generate wounds, the mortify self thing seems insufficient. Yup, I think it's called "Dance of Death", and it currently seems absurdly overpowered. I think there was a bug making it give me a wound every second, so that I reached maximum might really quickly. If turning wheel is out due to helwalker monk, which is my suspicion as they accomplish something of the same thing, I'll be very disappointed. It was so good. Really liked holding wounds for 50% burn lash as an alternative to torment spam. Let's be honest, we'll all be disappointed because our monks won't have flaming fists, and they'll never, ever look as cool without 'em. Turning wheel would feel great on a Helwalker, but I don't think it'd be overpowered. Helwalkers probably shouldn't be in close combat, but that's why it'd be so fun if an ability like turning wheel tempted you to try. Edited November 17, 2017 by cheesevillain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen Rohk Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I've not had a chance to full explore yet, but as a monk main in PoE1 I'm kinda sad that we're getting per-encounter skills that are also locked behind wounds if I understand correctly? Should really be one or the other. You read my post. You have been eaten by a grue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangePulp Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 I've not had a chance to full explore yet, but as a monk main in PoE1 I'm kinda sad that we're getting per-encounter skills that are also locked behind wounds if I understand correctly? Should really be one or the other. I haven't seen anything that requires both, it seems to be one or the other. Some things have been changed, like Swift Strikes now using the per-encounter resource (called Mortification for monks), and Clarity of Agony now using wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesevillain Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Helwalker Update: The class can be really brutal multi-classed with the normal Cipher class and ESPECIALLY with the Cipher subclass. Pairing it with the Soulblade (which requires melee range to use, and makes the Helwalker very vulnerable) is less effective, but does make for suicidally goofy fun. Now this isn't clear at all, but Helwalkers start combat with a wound for each power point they have. A single class Helwalker at the maximum level would start with 9 wounds. Upon playing a little more, it makes sense for monks to have two pools to fuel their abilities, because (a) wounds ten to get eaten up really fast, and (b) the mortification abilities are actually designed to help give you wounds. Swift Strikes helps a Shattered pillar quickly gather wounds for example. Blade Turning helps a Dance of Death build avoid getting hit, so it can keep gathering wounds. The monk class tree has a lot more depth in builds than I initially thought, but this is only obvious once it hits power level three, which is a gruelling level seven for multiclass players. Anyone playing a multi class monk in the beta isn't going to get a real sense of what it's like at the starting level of 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunehunter Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Let's be honest, we'll all be disappointed because our monks won't have flaming fists, and they'll never, ever look as cool without 'em. Turning wheel would feel great on a Helwalker, but I don't think it'd be overpowered. Helwalkers probably shouldn't be in close combat, but that's why it'd be so fun if an ability like turning wheel tempted you to try. Don't they have lightning fist from swift strike instead of flaming fist now? It would be OP if they have both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangePulp Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 Let's be honest, we'll all be disappointed because our monks won't have flaming fists, and they'll never, ever look as cool without 'em. Turning wheel would feel great on a Helwalker, but I don't think it'd be overpowered. Helwalkers probably shouldn't be in close combat, but that's why it'd be so fun if an ability like turning wheel tempted you to try. Don't they have lightning fist from swift strike instead of flaming fist now? It would be OP if they have both. They had both before, the lightning upgrade was in PoE1 (for 25%, don't remember if it's the same here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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