Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

WIZARDS - feedback at first sight


  • Please log in to reply
90 replies to this topic

#21
DozingDragon

DozingDragon

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 293 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Hey guys, couple of questions for people playing the beta:

Is the Shadowflame spell in the game? Can you learn it on level up?

Is Arcane Veil a spell now? If so, what level?

Since wizards take longer to cast now, does dex become the 2nd most imp stat for most builds after intelligence?

Shadowflame was shown in a stream, but it is not available to learn at level-up. I assume it’s a grimoire only spell.

Arcane veil is available at spell level 3 I think. I don’t recall precisely at the moment.

Edited by DozingDragon, 16 November 2017 - 01:18 PM.


#22
demeisen

demeisen

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 365 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

​​

 


There is no learning spells from grimoire and grimoire are not changeable. You get the spells you learn at level up + the spells in a grimoire. After that you can equip other grimoires in your items and switch out the books to get access to other ones during fight.

 

 

​Hmm, that's unfortunate.  It'll remove a lot of flexibility and tactical variety for mixing and matching to create interesting spell combinations, especially since grimoires are not changeable.  One of the interesting things about casters was always the variety.

​Not a fan of that choice.


  • brankel likes this

#23
dam

dam

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 518 posts
  • Location:France
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

​​

 


There is no learning spells from grimoire and grimoire are not changeable. You get the spells you learn at level up + the spells in a grimoire. After that you can equip other grimoires in your items and switch out the books to get access to other ones during fight.

 

 

​Hmm, that's unfortunate.  It'll remove a lot of flexibility and tactical variety for mixing and matching to create interesting spell combinations, especially since grimoires are not changeable.  One of the interesting things about casters was always the variety.

​Not a fan of that choice.

 

Actually, you can swap grimoires.

 

You can just not learn the spells from one grimoire, and input them in another.

 

(which was a great way to get your multiple wizards to learn every spell by the way, if expensive).



#24
demeisen

demeisen

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 365 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

 

 


Actually, you can swap grimoires.

 

You can just not learn the spells from one grimoire, and input them in another.

 

Nod - that's certainly better than nothing, but still means you can't easily select a custom spell loadout to make your own interesting tactical combinations.  You're restricted to what the game gives you, plus the most essential things you learn at level up.



#25
cheesevillain

cheesevillain

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 230 posts
  • Deadfire Backer

The per-encounter spells work, but more importantly, they feel great. There were some good design reasons for the per-rest spells, but I alway felt like crap whenever I played one, even if I knew I would rest after the fight.

 

I initially wasn't to keen on losing the ability to scribe spells, but this makes finding new Grimoires a lot more cool. Btw, there's a really great Grimoire in the Dank Spore encounter, presumably from some wizard that it previously ate.



#26
dam

dam

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 518 posts
  • Location:France
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

 

Hey guys, couple of questions for people playing the beta:

 

Is the Shadowflame spell in the game? Can you learn it on level up?

 

Is Arcane Veil a spell now? If so, what level?

 

Since wizards take longer to cast now, does dex become the 2nd most imp stat for most builds after intelligence?

 

DEX only affects your recovery AFAIK, not the actual action time.

A spell that takes long to cast, will still take long.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

 

 

'kay tested just now, DEX does affect both cast time, and recovery time.

MIG affects damage for some spells only.

INT affects duration + area for some spells only.

PER affects your accuracy, but does not grant additional Pen whatsoever.



#27
dam

dam

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 518 posts
  • Location:France
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Do they all show up automatically in the grimoire? I assume you still have to choose which ones you want active.

 

Nope, you just get access to your regular spells, plus the ones you didn't know already which are featured in the grimoire.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure I like this very much.

 

Like, not sure *at all* .

 

 

The reason one played a sorcerer in BG2 was that, despite the inability to scribe spells, you got many more spellcasts per rest.

Here, you're getting per-encounter spells, but with a very restricted repertoire.

 

Really not sure I like this.



#28
cheesevillain

cheesevillain

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 230 posts
  • Deadfire Backer

 

Here, you're getting per-encounter spells, but with a very restricted repertoire.

 

 

 

 

Wizards still get far more spells than any other class, just as soon as they pick up a couple of grimoires. 

I really hated how in PoE, wizards all ended up with identical spell lists, since they ended up knowing every spell.


Edited by cheesevillain, 16 November 2017 - 04:19 PM.

  • Insidous likes this

#29
ghostwriter

ghostwriter

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 54 posts

'kay tested just now, DEX does affect both cast time, and recovery time.

 

 MIG affects damage for some spells only.

INT affects duration + area for some spells only.

PER affects your accuracy, but does not grant additional Pen whatsoever.

 

 

Hey thanks dude, appreciate it. Unless it's a bug that seems to be a big change to might and int.

 

Can you elaborate a little? Which spells that you tested are no longer affected by int and might?



#30
dam

dam

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 518 posts
  • Location:France
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

 

'kay tested just now, DEX does affect both cast time, and recovery time.

 

 MIG affects damage for some spells only.

INT affects duration + area for some spells only.

PER affects your accuracy, but does not grant additional Pen whatsoever.

 

 

Hey thanks dude, appreciate it. Unless it's a bug that seems to be a big change to might and int.

 

Can you elaborate a little? Which spells that you tested are no longer affected by int and might?

 

 

IDK, it was pretty much the same in POE1 already.

 

Like, take the Mirror Image line of spells (or arcane veil, whatever), these have a static numerical component.

You do not get heightened deflection from a higher MIG.

 

The same goes for the Merciless Gaze line of spells, you do not get higher bonii from having 20 MIG, you still get the same hit/crit conversion.



#31
Nail

Nail

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 329 posts
  • Location:Kiev, Ukraine
  • Steam:Perebor
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Very, very, very long casting time.

Enemies just change placement when you still cast some AoE spell :)

Only fine in situations when front line holding and enemies are stationary.

I don't like casting time so far, feels weird and weak.

I'm trying PotD...


Edited by Nail, 17 November 2017 - 01:37 AM.


#32
ghostwriter

ghostwriter

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 54 posts

Ah ok, I think I misunderstood... I thought you meant like some spells which would have been influenced by might/int in the first game are no longer being affected in Deadfire.



#33
LuxuriantOak

LuxuriantOak

    (0) Nub

  • Initiates
  • 4 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Here's to hoping that the scribe spell and the editing of grimoires will be added at a later date, it is a beta after all ...

If they removed it ... I'll cry, like others have said I always enjoyed flling up my pokedeck*AHEM*spellbook with new spells as I played.

-got to catch them all :)



#34
dam

dam

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 518 posts
  • Location:France
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Here's to hoping that the scribe spell and the editing of grimoires will be added at a later date, it is a beta after all ...

If they removed it ... I'll cry, like others have said I always enjoyed flling up my pokedeck*AHEM*spellbook with new spells as I played.

-got to catch them all :)

 

Scribing spells is hardly compatible with the notion of choosing them at level up, don't you think ?

 

What good was that level up, if all that did is grant you access to a spell you can scribe 20 minutes later ?



#35
Heijoushin

Heijoushin

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1324 posts
  • Location:Japan
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

I'm just kind of wondering... are the spells that are in the beta everything we're going to get? I ask because the top level (level 5) wizard spells don't seem to be too amazing. 

I don't know, maybe they were trying to keep all the levels sort of balanced so that level 1 spells don't become useless later on, but I like to see some distinct power progression. Wizards should be flinging pebbles at level 0/1 and dropping meteorites at level 6/7.



#36
Falk Schütze

Falk Schütze

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 65 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Id like to give feedback for the Wizard subclasses.

 

They all gain +1 power level for their chosen spell school and an additional ability. The Conjurer can summon a Familiar that gives a small buff for 1 minute. Honestly, I think every wizard should be able to get a familiar by default and it should not be a summon but a permanent companion, like the Ranger gets. NWN1 allowed the familiar to be useful in battle, NWN2 allowed the familiar to at least cast ranged / melee touch spells in addition to giving a permanent buff (while alive). The 1 minute 'pet' familiar in PoE2 sound very boring and uninspired.

The Enchanter has 'Free Action'. It removes these dexterity afflictions: Hobbled / Immobilized / Paralyzed and prevents all of these for another 10 seconds. Quite useful. The Evoker has a 30% chance to do double damage with Evocation spells for the entirety of battle, basically yielding +30% base damage, which is OP. The Illusionist has 'Mirrored Image' (+30 deflection for 1 minute, 2nd level spell) auto-cast on him when first attacked once per encounter, which is also slightly OP. The Transmuter can shapeshift into an Ogre (for 30 seconds) once per Encounter which seems okay-ish.

But the main problem is that all these subclasses remove two full spell schools from the Specialists repertoire as well as cause all remaining schools to get +20% recovery time after casting. This is much more than even a Red Wizard of Thay had to sacrifice. The added recovery time should be removed. Only one spell school, meaning the lorewise opposite spell school, should be prohibited from Specialists. Some of the Druid and Priest subclasses show how such a system works (they loose only one spell school). Both the Illusionist and even more so the Evoker should receive minor version of their currently OP abilities.

All Wizards, subclass or not, should be able to summon a permanent (until killed) familiar that has uses outside giving a buff. The Conjurer should be given an appropriate ability instead E.g. summoning duration. Also, all Wizards really need to be able to learn some summoning (Conjuration) spells by default. I can really only think of one summoning spell, 'Mauras Writhing Tentacles' (level 4 spell). That is not even closely appropriate, especially for a Conjurer. Please add several lower and higher level summoning spells.

 

It would be nice if a Priest of Magran receives the Evokers bonus to power level (higher spell Penetration) and +30% damage for her Magran-themed spells. They are listed as Evocation.

These subclasses would be positively affected:
- Priest of Magran +1 Evocation Power and +30% Evocation damage from Evoker
- Priest of Wael +1 Illusion Power from Illusionist
- Pries of Eothas +1 Element Penetration and +20% Element Range from Fury (Druid Subclass)
- Tricksters +1 Illusion Power from Illusionist

These subclasses would be negatively affected (maybe remove these multiclass choices):
- Priest of Magran / Conjurer or Transmuter loses her spells
- Priest of Wael / Conjurer or Enchanter loses her spells
- Tricksters / Conjurer or Enchanter loses her spells

 

One final note: The Wizard is currently not showing his Grimoire outside of casting a spell. I always liked Grimoires, some looking and filled with unique spells, being visible as a distinct feature of the Wizard and hope it gets reintroduced into PoE2.


Edited by Falk Schütze, 18 November 2017 - 04:52 AM.


#37
Heijoushin

Heijoushin

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1324 posts
  • Location:Japan
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

...

 

Schutzengel! Welcome back! 



#38
Tartantyco

Tartantyco

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 787 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer

I think removing the grimoire spell learning is good. It puts more focus on having and cycling between several grimoires, and makes the grimoires themselves more valuable. In PoE1, I'd usually just have one grimoire, put all my spells in it, and occasionally switch the spells around. In Deadfire, I actually hang on to other grimoires and switch them mid-combat to get this or that spell.



#39
ghostwriter

ghostwriter

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 54 posts

They all gain +1 power level for their chosen spell school and an additional ability. The Conjurer can summon a Familiar that gives a small buff for 1 minute. Honestly, I think every wizard should be able to get a familiar by default and it should not be a summon but a permanent companion, like the Ranger gets. NWN1 allowed the familiar to be useful in battle, NWN2 allowed the familiar to at least cast ranged / melee touch spells in addition to giving a permanent buff (while alive). The 1 minute 'pet' familiar in PoE2 sound very boring and uninspired.

---------------

 

One final note: The Wizard is currently not showing his Grimoire outside of casting a spell. I always liked Grimoires, some looking and filled with unique spells, being visible as a distinct feature of the Wizard and hope it gets reintroduced into PoE2.

 

Disagree with both these points... Definitely don't want a permanent familiar companion following my character around. One of the reasons I never take rangers(and appreciate the Ghost Heart subclass) is because I don't want some pet in the party to deal with.

 

Also I like seeing the grimoires only during combat. Looks cleaner, for lack of a better word...



#40
rothamon81

rothamon81

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 44 posts
  • Location:Austria
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Perception seems the most important stat now for mages, especially since debuffs (for defenses) also depend on it, forget intelligence for an evoker who does only single time damage. A fireball with 6 sec casting time at 20 might does nothing if it missed. (happened) Melee and ranged chars have a lot of attacks to balance accuracy vs deflection, and they get weapons with higher enchantments which increase accuracy. But where is the staff/wand that increases accuracy for spells? (also dearly missed in PoE1)

 

The empower - Skill does increase a skill by 3(?) power levels yet it doesn't show what that means(damagemultiplier/penetration/duration)? I'll hope/expect this will be improved along with the tooltips for damage ranges. Also why would I empower a single spell if you especially later you can get like 9 additional spells later, or for a multiclass up to 2x8 or 2x7 skills/spells? (not sure which max power level is possible for multiclass)

 

The familiar spell is crap, either make it not random, or not taking up a lvl 1 spell. The evoker special I didn't even notice. Would it be possible to change it to something else? Illusion spell at start is nice to have, transmutation I didn't use, but all of them seem not very viable at later levels.

 

And no talents for mages? None at all? Why? No casting speed vs damage increase vs penetration? Would seem so obvious to me to let a player choose.

 

About grimoire: What is the point of static spell selection? Do I have to reroll my character at the tavern again the moment I find a better/higher spell selection because some of it I chose myself? Why can't I change the spells (at least with some sort of crafting material (maybe that is already intended)) in a book when I'm becoming a big and powerful mage at some point? Lorewise: who is writing those books anyway if a dragon killing, god-offing being can't do it?


  • zeee likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users