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Paladin/Priest subclasses


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#21
Moneo

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Speaking about disappointments, I find that Goldpact order restrictions in PoE2 as they are announced are quite disappointing. Unability to use paladin's auras is rather frustrating. This leaves very narrow usage of such paladins...



#22
Skaddix

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Speaking about disappointments, I find that Goldpact order restrictions in PoE2 as they are announced are quite disappointing. Unability to use paladin's auras is rather frustrating. This leaves very narrow usage of such paladins...

Certainly its a selfish option but is it just me or do the Goldpact and Darcozzi seem awfully similiar. They both essentially put up a shield. Although presumably the Darcozzi shield retaliates.



#23
Torm51

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Speaking about disappointments, I find that Goldpact order restrictions in PoE2 as they are announced are quite disappointing. Unability to use paladin's auras is rather frustrating. This leaves very narrow usage of such paladins...

Certainly its a selfish option but is it just me or do the Goldpact and Darcozzi seem awfully similiar. They both essentially put up a shield. Although presumably the Darcozzi shield retaliates.

I think they both suck. Unless the Flame Shield gets a huge buff. And the Goldpact armor buff well if you are in a door way where you can funnel enemies im sure it can be good but in a game with no aggro in an open area more DR will make the AI just ignore you.

#24
rjshae

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Does less damage against enemies vulnerable to Sneak Attack.

 

I'm curious about the interpretation of this Kind Wayfarers' restriction. Does it apply to every creature that is not immune to sneak attack? Or are there particular creatures that are especially vulnerable to a sneak attack?



#25
Torm51

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Does less damage against enemies vulnerable to Sneak Attack.


I'm curious about the interpretation of this Kind Wayfarers' restriction. Does it apply to every creature that is not immune to sneak attack? Or are there particular creatures that are especially vulnerable to a sneak attack?

Good question I can deal with my Paladin being a less effective Alpha Striker. At the end of the day it's a Paladins defenses that make him/her shine. I'd like more clarification on that as well.

#26
Moneo

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Does less damage against enemies vulnerable to Sneak Attack.

 

I'm curious about the interpretation of this Kind Wayfarers' restriction. Does it apply to every creature that is not immune to sneak attack? Or are there particular creatures that are especially vulnerable to a sneak attack?

 

 

I suppose that means debuffed creatures which are vulnerable to sneak attack (e.g. flanked/blinded/weakened etc.). AFAIK there is no particular immunity to sneak attack.

 

I think, that Kind Wayfarers are supposed to be fair combatants who don't exploit enemy's weaknesses and rush into the battle boldly, with opened visor. But this restriction would make KW's on-kill triggers less effective, of course.


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#27
Skaddix

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Speaking about disappointments, I find that Goldpact order restrictions in PoE2 as they are announced are quite disappointing. Unability to use paladin's auras is rather frustrating. This leaves very narrow usage of such paladins...

Certainly its a selfish option but is it just me or do the Goldpact and Darcozzi seem awfully similiar. They both essentially put up a shield. Although presumably the Darcozzi shield retaliates.

I think they both suck. Unless the Flame Shield gets a huge buff. And the Goldpact armor buff well if you are in a door way where you can funnel enemies im sure it can be good but in a game with no aggro in an open area more DR will make the AI just ignore you.

 

 

I would hope these abilities get special properties that you can upgrade...ie being able to Nova your flame shield into flame strike  or something. Your giving up Zeal a limited resource for it so it needs to be worth it.

 

But yeah I am concerned about the Paladin options.
Still I wouldn't play a Kind Wayfarer but turning Eder or Pallegina into one on a melee focused team would probably pay dividends.



#28
Torm51

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Does less damage against enemies vulnerable to Sneak Attack.

I'm curious about the interpretation of this Kind Wayfarers' restriction. Does it apply to every creature that is not immune to sneak attack? Or are there particular creatures that are especially vulnerable to a sneak attack?
I suppose that means debuffed creatures which are vulnerable to sneak attack (e.g. flanked/blinded/weakened etc.). AFAIK there is no particular immunity to sneak attack.

I think, that Kind Wayfarers are supposed to be fair combatants who don't exploit enemy's weaknesses and rush into the battle boldly, with opened visor. But this restriction would make KW's on-kill triggers less effective, of course.
I still don't get it, sneak attack vulnerable creatures have only been able to be sneak attacked by rogues. Is that changing In deadfire? Do debuffed enemies take extra damage from everyone?

Edited by Torm51, 25 October 2017 - 11:13 AM.


#29
Moneo

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Not only by rogues, there are Apprentice/Baby sneak attacks.

 

BTW, "vulnerability to sneak attack" is just an attribute applied to a creature when it acquires certain debuffs. It's not about rogues, but creatures themselves.

 

I take it that Kind Wayfarers would inflict not more, but less damage to such creatures.


Edited by Moneo, 25 October 2017 - 11:17 AM.

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#30
Skaddix

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Yeah certain debuffs allow for sneak attacks...granted I suppose in this case the numbers really matter. How much healing reduction? How much less zeal? How much less damage dealt? How strong is the shield?

 

The shieldbearer is probably in the best position cant really go wrong with knockout prevention.
 



#31
Torm51

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Yeah certain debuffs allow for sneak attacks...granted I suppose in this case the numbers really matter. How much healing reduction? How much less zeal? How much less damage dealt? How strong is the shield?

The shieldbearer is probably in the best position cant really go wrong with knockout prevention.


Ya and plenty of other ways to heal yourself. I agree.

#32
Dr <3

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I fear that the thing will be something like " kind wayfarers do less dmg to all target vulnerabile to sneak attack " = everything with an affliction that ALLOWS for sneak attack = less dmg to proned, stunned, hobbled, blinded ecc enemies = you suck in a party proper played

#33
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I fear that the thing will be something like " kind wayfarers do less dmg to all target vulnerabile to sneak attack " = everything with an affliction that ALLOWS for sneak attack = less dmg to proned, stunned, hobbled, blinded ecc enemies = you suck in a party proper played

Eh like I said I like being a good Alpha Striker but can deal with it since the Paladins best attribute is defense and support.

That being said like someone says how much less is a big deal. An Arbalest Alpha Strike hits hard. If it's 10% damage reduction it won't be a big deal. For example in my current run my Wayfarer has the largest damage dealt with an Arbalest FoD of 112 (party is at level 9) 10% of 112 is 11.2. So in POE 2 the shot would have been for 101. If the enemy had a qualifying debuff. Thats still a big hit at that level.

Edited by Torm51, 25 October 2017 - 11:41 AM.


#34
Skaddix

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I fear that the thing will be something like " kind wayfarers do less dmg to all target vulnerabile to sneak attack " = everything with an affliction that ALLOWS for sneak attack = less dmg to proned, stunned, hobbled, blinded ecc enemies = you suck in a party proper played

 

 

I am not sure you suck but I probably go Unbroken Fighter and just build a pure tank. 



#35
Moneo

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I fear that the thing will be something like " kind wayfarers do less dmg to all target vulnerabile to sneak attack " = everything with an affliction that ALLOWS for sneak attack = less dmg to proned, stunned, hobbled, blinded ecc enemies = you suck in a party proper played

 

I think, that's not about "sucking", 'cause a pally can be a tankadin in the first place. But in PoE1, Kind Wayfarers are rather damage dealers than tanks, so it's strange to have such an impediment with them. This will not work well together with KW's PoE1-like on-kill triggers. That's not a synergy in any sense, it's an impediment and mere contradiction.

 

Such a restriction suits more defensive-oriented Shieldbearers of Eldga, not offensive-oriented Wayfahrers. IMO, it's better to hinder Wayfahrers in their defensive abilities (if they are to have some downsides or restrictions), not in their offensive power.


Edited by Moneo, 25 October 2017 - 12:11 PM.

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#36
Torm51

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I fear that the thing will be something like " kind wayfarers do less dmg to all target vulnerabile to sneak attack " = everything with an affliction that ALLOWS for sneak attack = less dmg to proned, stunned, hobbled, blinded ecc enemies = you suck in a party proper played


I think, that's not about "sucking", 'cause a pally can be a tankadin in the first place. But in PoE1, Kind Wayfarers are rather damage dealers than tanks, so it's strange to have such an impediment with them. This will not work well together with KW's PoE1-like on-kill triggers. That's not a synergy in any sense, it's an impediment and mere contradiction.

Such a restriction suits more defensive-oriented Shieldbearers of Eldga, not offensive-oriented Wayfahrers. IMO, it's better to hinder Wayfahrers in their defensive abilities (if they are to have some downsides or restrictions), not in their offensive power.

Ya I agree.
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#37
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I think paladins are Alpha Strikers in POE 1 because the limited use of FOD, now with the new zeal system he can use more FOD per combat, that means can do more than just alpha strike i guess?


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#38
Dr <3

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Sorry , what i said was clearly magnified on purpouse. Obviusly it will be a matter of balance, anyway i hate to have a class restriction that limits my dmg output. For sure you will still be able to be a nice tank , support, ecc.


@dunehunter : afaik an high lvl paladin will be able tu use a lot of FoD attacks ( 10+ at high lvls) but josh said that other abilities will be comparatively stronger ( so you will have to choose between spam FoD or use commands or immolation, for example)
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#39
Ancelor

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one thing that disappoints me is the restriction of protection spells for Eothas.

If anything I think protection fits his portfolio best compared to other gods



#40
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If the KW penalty is supposed to represent fair play, then why not simply have them unable to BENEFIT from certain statuses like Flanked or Hobbled?  As in, they don't get the accuracy bonus for attacking someone who is flanked but doesn't take a penalty either?  Not sure on the balance of such a thing though or how it would play out in game.

 

EDIT:  Then again, I'm not sure why KWs would be interested in fair play.  Nothing about their lore indicates they only fight fairly.  If anything, they are portrayed as the more passionate, ragey kind of paladins who dive in to save people at the risk of their own lives.  Many of their ranks are low-born, and they travel around alot.  St Ydwen's Redeemer portrays Ydwen the original paladin wielder of said sword and a Kind Wayfarer as someone who was willing to (and actually did) throw her life away to save others, nothing about fairplay there.


Edited by FlintlockJazz, 02 November 2017 - 03:39 AM.





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