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To everyone complaining about the price changes...


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Legally speaking I recognise Obsidian scammed me rather than robbed me but you SURELY have to see how they feel almost indistinguishable.

Then you're going to stop using the word "theft" now, correct?

 

Obsidian had/has no way of knowing what you *intended* to use the fake money that you spent real money on. You're pissed that they didn't uphold their end of some bargain...a bargain that only exists in your head. The analogy of the gift card only makes sense if all sides agree to what the gift card was for. Clearly, you're upset and odds are that if I were in your shoes, I would be too. The bigger questions are thus:

 

1. What is it that you're trying to accomplish here?

2. Is your current course of action *really* the most productive way to make it happen?

 

I, for one, am less inclined to be helpful when someone is acting belligerent toward me and/or accusing me of acting in bad faith when I am not. I have to imagine you're the same way (right?). So, again: really?

Words
"I don't know what I want, other than to loudly and publicly declare that I'm beyond reason"

 

Ok bro. Good luck with that.

 

*ignore list*

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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No I'm not. Outside of supreme pedants the word "theft" describes what Obsidian did succinctly and with enough clarity for practically any English speaking person on the planet. The only reason I'd need to drop it is if I ended up as part of a class-action lawsuit but realistically no.

 

...

No-one ever thinks deeper than "Obsidian are goodies, so the things they do must be good"

Look, I know it was an unexpected change for everyone, but you still have all the gold you paid for. Nothing was stolen from you, or anyone else. You may have lost a means to purchase content at a discounted price (or free), but that's about the extent of it.

 

There was a serious discussion about the changes two months ago, and the developers did admit that the transition wasn't handled as they'd hoped, but it was manifest necessity to realign the in-game economy and maybe, just maybe, turn enough of a revenue to encourage further development. The F2P system was really generous, but as time wore on, it became obvious that it couldn't last forever.

 

So, despite the bluster, despite the rhetoric and accusations, just consider sending them an email; they'll probably still help you out. It's a long weekend in the US, so it's guaranteed to be a while before you get a response, but they've actually been trying their absolute hardest to do right by their players.

Edited by Ethics Gradient
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Can you at least attempt to call a spade a spade here? Sure I have the gold I paid for but changing the terms of the deal so that gold has absolutely no purpose is fundamentally identical to theft. I had money, now I do not have it nor do I have the items I paid for. The money I spent is gone and I got nothing in return. I bought it at a lower price, they didn't give me anything for my money but I can now buy it at a higher price.

 

Theft. Not "handling things poorly" not "miscommunicating price changes" most certainly not "losing the chance to buy at a lower price". Theft.

 

Did they need to change their pricing strategy? Maybe. Is that in the least bit relevant? Nope.

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Can you at least attempt to call a spade a spade here? Sure I have the gold I paid for but changing the terms of the deal so that gold has absolutely no purpose is fundamentally identical to theft. I had money, now I do not have it nor do I have the items I paid for. The money I spent is gone and I got nothing in return. I bought it at a lower price, they didn't give me anything for my money but I can now buy it at a higher price.

Theft. Not "handling things poorly" not "miscommunicating price changes" most certainly not "losing the chance to buy at a lower price". Theft.

Did they need to change their pricing strategy? Maybe. Is that in the least bit relevant? Nope.

I have been reading your posts over the last few days, scratching my head, trying to figure out their logic. The best I can come up with is: You are a member of a secret society of time-travelling assassins, sent back to change the future by boring us all to death.

 

You are so emotionally invested in being right you have now resorted to lying to try to "prove" your point. You did not pay for "items", you paid for gold. The gold is not "absolutely worthless": You can buy seven cards, eleven runes, and seven charms with it, plus the chests, from which you might obtain dozens (hundreds?) of items. Now, you may not *want* those things, but since the gold isn't worthless, this is not theft. The term you are looking for--if you wish to claim Obsidian was intending to cheat you with the change--is "bait-and-switch". If you wish to be particularly hostile, then you might even write "fraud". But it is not theft.

 

Now that you have been proven wrong about the word, will you concede and change your tack? I doubt it, because at this point it's apparent you're more interested in the pleasure of your moral outrage than you are in actually getting what you originally wanted. Because instead of posting in multiple dormant threads, and trying to be right at all costs when you are demonstrably wrong, you could have saved yourself--and us!--a great deal of time by firing off a polite email to support explaining your circumstances and asking if they can convert your gold to the purchase you intended it for at the old gold prices. If they would not, then would be the time to post--in one thread!--here. The fact that you have not done this speaks volumes. If you do not want to be helped, that's your business. Just stop boring us already.

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Can you at least attempt to call a spade a spade here? Sure I have the gold I paid for but changing the terms of the deal so that gold has absolutely no purpose is fundamentally identical to theft. I had money, now I do not have it nor do I have the items I paid for. The money I spent is gone and I got nothing in return. I bought it at a lower price, they didn't give me anything for my money but I can now buy it at a higher price.

Theft. Not "handling things poorly" not "miscommunicating price changes" most certainly not "losing the chance to buy at a lower price". Theft.

Did they need to change their pricing strategy? Maybe. Is that in the least bit relevant? Nope.

I have been reading your posts over the last few days, scratching my head, trying to figure out their logic. The best I can come up with is: You are a member of a secret society of time-travelling assassins, sent back to change the future by boring us all to death.

 

You are so emotionally invested in being right you have now resorted to lying to try to "prove" your point. You did not pay for "items", you paid for gold. The gold is not "absolutely worthless": You can buy seven cards, eleven runes, and seven charms with it, plus the chests, from which you might obtain dozens (hundreds?) of items. Now, you may not *want* those things, but since the gold isn't worthless, this is not theft. The term you are looking for--if you wish to claim Obsidian was intending to cheat you with the change--is "bait-and-switch". If you wish to be particularly hostile, then you might even write "fraud". But it is not theft.

 

Now that you have been proven wrong about the word, will you concede and change your tack? I doubt it, because at this point it's apparent you're more interested in the pleasure of your moral outrage than you are in actually getting what you originally wanted. Because instead of posting in multiple dormant threads, and trying to be right at all costs when you are demonstrably wrong, you could have saved yourself--and us!--a great deal of time by firing off a polite email to support explaining your circumstances and asking if they can convert your gold to the purchase you intended it for at the old gold prices. If they would not, then would be the time to post--in one thread!--here. The fact that you have not done this speaks volumes. If you do not want to be helped, that's your business. Just stop boring us already.

 

If you're not interested in hearing about how Obsidian robbed me, maybe stop reading about it? Rather than reading about it and stretching yourself in absolute knots trying to come up with some description that doesn't make this equivalent to theft?

 

Don't worry though, I'll not bore you further by explaining why being able to trade gold for useless trinkets doesn't change the situation. You know it, I know it, Obsidian know it and everyone reading it knows it.

 

But you're right, I am more invested in the idea that Obsidian and their players realise stealing is wrong than to actually get back the few quid they stole. Though at the moment it's gone beyond that to flat out incredulity that people can convince themselves it isn't.

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In the time you spent on here complaining, you could have worked and easily earned enough money to pay for the obsidian edition and all the DLCs.

 

It's actually at a discount right now.

Maybe the rational response to being robbed is to pay your robber for your stuff back. But holy **** is that a weird response. Anyway it's still £24 on ios and no I couldn't.

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Rubarack, please stop complaining - here are mainly other players who very probably like the game and just wanted to help you. If you just want to vent your anger, go fetch some boxing bag and hit it as hard you like.

Ad the price changes - granted, Obsidian forgot to post the thing about price changes, which I don't like at least for new player's sake (I have everything except Goblins and Valeros campaign + many rare cards), but I respect that. They have to pay the developers (and the bureaucratic machine behind them, obviously).

BUT your situation is just like buying foreign currency or other commodity. Suppose that you bought 10000 cubits (BSG example) for a future trip to Caprica city, but just put it in a safe for some years. Then you want to go to the Caprica city, eventually, but realise that the cubits now have lost 50% of their worth or maybe that cubits were replaced by another currency. The proper response in the second case would be to go to the bank and discuss the possibility of exchanging your cubits for new currency (see the analogy? a little help: bank=Obsidian support). In the first case, the fault would be only yours that you did not use that money right away. The second case is not your fault, but will not be resolved by going to a park and crying loud that you were robbed and how unfair the world is.

My last words in this topic. Howgh.

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Suppose that you bought 10000 cubits (BSG example) for a future trip to Caprica city, but just put it in a safe for some years....  the cubits now have lost 50% of their worth or maybe that cubits were replaced by another currency.

And somehow I'm labelled the "supreme pedant"?  :)

 

Jenceslav, this is almost as cryptic to me as your math-based explanation of permadeath

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In the time you spent on here complaining, you could have worked and easily earned enough money to pay for the obsidian edition and all the DLCs.

 

It's actually at a discount right now.

Maybe the rational response to being robbed is to pay your robber for your stuff back. But holy **** is that a weird response. Anyway it's still £24 on ios and no I couldn't.

 

So.. buy it on steam and then link your accounts.

 

And of course you can. Working is easy. I don't know your personal situation, but you seem to be able to operate a keyboard, so if all else fails, one can make money with writing.

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In the time you spent on here complaining, you could have worked and easily earned enough money to pay for the obsidian edition and all the DLCs.

 

It's actually at a discount right now.

 

Maybe the rational response to being robbed is to pay your robber for your stuff back. But holy **** is that a weird response. Anyway it's still £24 on ios and no I couldn't.

So.. buy it on steam and then link your accounts.

 

And of course you can. Working is easy. I don't know your personal situation, but you seem to be able to operate a keyboard, so if all else fails, one can make money with writing.

Work isn't easy, there's still that huge recession on. But especially earning 60 odd pound an hour is a trickier proposition. It's definitely handy to know it works cross buy, albeit only in the one direction.
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Rubarack, please stop complaining - here are mainly other players who very probably like the game and just wanted to help you. If you just want to vent your anger, go fetch some boxing bag and hit it as hard you like.

Ad the price changes - granted, Obsidian forgot to post the thing about price changes, which I don't like at least for new player's sake (I have everything except Goblins and Valeros campaign + many rare cards), but I respect that. They have to pay the developers (and the bureaucratic machine behind them, obviously).

BUT your situation is just like buying foreign currency or other commodity. Suppose that you bought 10000 cubits (BSG example) for a future trip to Caprica city, but just put it in a safe for some years. Then you want to go to the Caprica city, eventually, but realise that the cubits now have lost 50% of their worth or maybe that cubits were replaced by another currency. The proper response in the second case would be to go to the bank and discuss the possibility of exchanging your cubits for new currency (see the analogy? a little help: bank=Obsidian support). In the first case, the fault would be only yours that you did not use that money right away. The second case is not your fault, but will not be resolved by going to a park and crying loud that you were robbed and how unfair the world is.

My last words in this topic. Howgh.

Working with your example then I'm curious as to whether you think that's acceptible behaviour?

 

First off I'll make a couple of changes because I think without one of them it would have caused city-wide riots and probably bring down the government.

 

1) Cubits in this case are somehow analogous to travellers checks. It's not applicable to people actually living there.

 

2) In this case (since it's the one thing you are prepared to accept as lamentable) they actually did place a post on their blog saying down to, lets say rampant forgery, travelers cubits are no longer accepted in stores. Travellers have one month to spend them, after which point they will no longer be accepted at all.

 

Now in this scenario X% of travellers don't read the blog of the Caprica tourist blog. By some odd coincidence it's exactly the same % as don't read Obsidian's Pathfinder blog. That X% lose all the money they had in those travellers checks.

 

Now I'd maintain that that X% is actually very high. Much too high to make this an acceptible response to the cancellation of those travellers cubits in that fashion.

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I'll just take a wild guess and say that you've spent.. what? 3 hours in this forum, just reading, thinking about replies and formulating them to air your complaints.

 

The obsidian edition plus the Valeros DLC sets you back 20 euros.

 

I am currently making 12 euros an hour as an untrained text writer on various internet platforms or assistant for a handicapped person. So even if you took it easy, 2 hours would be plenty to pay for that game on steam. Then you'd just need to link accounts to my iOS version and you'd be good to go.

 

Of course, you could throw good time after bad and continue whining.

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I'll just take a wild guess and say that you've spent.. what? 3 hours in this forum, just reading, thinking about replies and formulating them to air your complaints.

 

The obsidian edition plus the Valeros DLC sets you back 20 euros.

 

I am currently making 12 euros an hour as an untrained text writer on various internet platforms or assistant for a handicapped person. So even if you took it easy, 2 hours would be plenty to pay for that game on steam. Then you'd just need to link accounts to my iOS version and you'd be good to go.

 

Of course, you could throw good time after bad and continue whining.

this made me laugh. Plus, it's a good point. I always wonder at folks who complain about pricing. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. You're a consumer. At some point, you have to be responsible for your own purchases. Moreover, no one owes you anything for which you haven't paid. Even if you have paid a trivial price, you should expect a trivial product or limited use of a better product.

 

I agree with the original poster. These Obsidian people should have delivered a product with less bugs, that's true, but the game is still tons of fun and I want to see others in the same line which simply won't happen if they can't make a profit. So, complain about the bugs if you want, but don't complain about paying for the product. There are plenty of crappy free to play games on a variety of platforms. Try Farmville if you don't want to pay for a decent product.

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I'll just take a wild guess and say that you've spent.. what? 3 hours in this forum, just reading, thinking about replies and formulating them to air your complaints.

 

The obsidian edition plus the Valeros DLC sets you back 20 euros.

 

I am currently making 12 euros an hour as an untrained text writer on various internet platforms or assistant for a handicapped person. So even if you took it easy, 2 hours would be plenty to pay for that game on steam. Then you'd just need to link accounts to my iOS version and you'd be good to go.

 

Of course, you could throw good time after bad and continue whining.

Good lord you type slowly. No, not even remotely close to three hours.

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I'll just take a wild guess and say that you've spent.. what? 3 hours in this forum, just reading, thinking about replies and formulating them to air your complaints.

 

The obsidian edition plus the Valeros DLC sets you back 20 euros.

 

I am currently making 12 euros an hour as an untrained text writer on various internet platforms or assistant for a handicapped person. So even if you took it easy, 2 hours would be plenty to pay for that game on steam. Then you'd just need to link accounts to my iOS version and you'd be good to go.

 

Of course, you could throw good time after bad and continue whining.

Good lord you type slowly. No, not even remotely close to three hours.

 

Well, I was assuming that you actually think about the stuff you post. Maybe I'm mistaken.

 

I actually type pretty fast.

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Proposal: everyone puts Rubarack on their ignore lists. A starved troll eventually moves on.

 

How?
Click next to your name at the top of the page

Manage Ignore Prefs

Add a new user to my list (bottom of the page)

Save Changes button

:)

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I know the moderators don't come around these parts too often, but let's all try to keep this from becoming too personal.

---

Nobody is questioning the fact that the change burned a fair amount of goodwill among the mobile players that have been with this game for a long time.

 

However, if you can articulate what you would like them to do, there is a reasonable chance they'd be able to help out.  Got a pile of gold saved up for AD5 and you never got the memo about price changes?  Send them an email.  Were you slowly grinding out the 10000 gold for the Character Deck and didn't make the purchase in time?  Send them an email.

 

But it is extraordinarily unlikely that we're ever going back to the "old" system that included F2P options.  The change happened at little while after Asmodee was brought on as a publisher, so future decisions about the game pricing may not entirely be up to the developers anyway.  It's a cash economy going forwards, but customer support is still there to support.

 

There's probably some solution out there for players who feel they got shorted, however arguing in this thread wasn't meant to be one of them.

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I agree with everything you just said, but this is this 4th post I've seen in this vein. Rubarack isn't interested in reason.

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I know the moderators don't come around these parts too often, but let's all try to keep this from becoming too personal.

---

Nobody is questioning the fact that the change burned a fair amount of goodwill among the mobile players that have been with this game for a long time.

 

However, if you can articulate what you would like them to do, there is a reasonable chance they'd be able to help out.  Got a pile of gold saved up for AD5 and you never got the memo about price changes?  Send them an email.  Were you slowly grinding out the 10000 gold for the Character Deck and didn't make the purchase in time?  Send them an email.

 

But it is extraordinarily unlikely that we're ever going back to the "old" system that included F2P options.  The change happened at little while after Asmodee was brought on as a publisher, so future decisions about the game pricing may not entirely be up to the developers anyway.  It's a cash economy going forwards, but customer support is still there to support.

 

There's probably some solution out there for players who feel they got shorted, however arguing in this thread wasn't meant to be one of them.

I'm not convinced any of that is true. Most people here seem poitively delighted they burned mobile players. At this point they've proffered no support nor even a basic aploolgy for ripping off mobile purchasers. If support can help then yay, but even being proactive iwould have been damage control.

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I disagree that they ripped off mobile purchasers. I refuse to call foul because they provided a way for people who didn't shell out the cash for the game to get so much content. Yeah, I can see people being angry that they purchased a product in good will that so many managed to mooch for free. That's the way of the world. They had a bad model for selling the game and subsequently came to their senses. So, while some people might have a legitimate beef, I still think people like me, who bought the game the first day and then paid for the upgrade, should not be angry that others managed to work the system to get much of the same thing. They could work the system and they did. Good for them. A lot of people do.

 

The idea that people who were gaming the system should be angry that Obsidian wisely changed their model is just silly. I don't take for granted that you're a troll, Rubarack. The early days of Fallout have convinced me that people can be unreasonably and unfairly enraged out of a sense of entitlement. These people aren't bad. They're merely misguided.

 

I went away from the keyboard to do other stuff and now I figure I might lose this erudite post because the thread was rightfully locked while I was gone. If that happens, I won't have grounds for complaint.

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