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Bullwinkle

To everyone complaining about the price changes...

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You are the reason we can't have nice things. Seriously, congratulate yourselves: when you look at the App Store, and see nothing but a sea of F2P ****, understand you and people like you made that happen.

 

You have one legitimate complaint: that Obsidian should have made folks aware of the change in advance. But the only reason that's a legitimate complaint is that people could have bought gold with the intention of using that gold for buying adventures or characters. So if you didn't do that, quit your whining.

 

Some of you are saying you're done with the game. To be frank: Who cares? Do you imagine you're doing Obsidian a favour by playing their game for free? Are you a loss, because you once threw them $2.99 for a month of daily gold? Do you think $2.99 is a reasonable amount for a game of this polish and complexity? Do you understand that developers need to eat, too? Or is that $25 you just blew on a crappy two-hour movie, popcorn, and soda not worth the dozens of hours you've already spent playing this game? Because if you're grinding enough gold to buy all the adventures, you have spent dozens of hours playing it.

 

It was painfully obvious from the start (https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/88625-1037-no-more-gold-for-new-parties/?p=1836030) that this game could not possibly survive as F2P. It has the exact opposite qualities it needs to succeed in that marketplace. That was, by far, Obsidian's biggest mistake; if you doubt that, note that they needed to bring on a new publisher to keep the game going. As for the price changes, it should be equally obvious to you that if they're cutting off your F2P options, it's because YOU ARE NOT WORTH IT AS A CUSTOMER. So what do you imagine you're doing by complaining, besides telling us all you failed Economics 101?

 

I have more words for you, except they'd get me banned from this forum.

Edited by Bullwinkle
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I have to agree, the original release was too good and did not bring money to developers... you could get everything you needed for free. So no money. The game is now better than those forsing players to buy gems with real money if you want to play the game... that is the most bad thing that could happen. Now you buy actual content that allows you to play more as much as you like. Not onetime bonus that Are must to succeed like in some other games.

Edited by Hannibal_PJV
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Call it a pay-to-play game, instead of free-to-play, and the complaints will go away.

Also might as well as just buy the Steam version to get everything plus free legendary cards, instead of all this microtransaction nonsense.

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Call it a pay-to-play game, instead of free-to-play, and the complaints will go away.

 

Well, that's exactly what it is now.  It is a paid game on Steam, and while the mobile edition offers some demo scenarios, you have to buy the rest of the content or merge your PC account.  I know it sucks a little that there was some expectation that mobile might stay F2P forever, but the various game economies were getting out of balance, and the fact that Steam and mobile could be linked only made things worse.

 

Sure, the change came without warning, but the only paying customers that it should have had any effect on are those who just purchased a ton of gold thinking they'd use it to unlock the remaining scenarios.  If that happens to describe anyone, shoot an email to support@obsidian.net.  They're reasonable people, and may be able to hook you up.

 

But as far as non-paying customers go, I guess I'm a little more sympathetic to the developer.  Nobody is losing things they'e unlocked for free over the last year, but if there is going to be any further content or bug fixes, such changes were inevitable.

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Well said.

 

Being Obsidian's first mobile game we learned a lot of thing to not do in the future.  That is for certain.

 

I apologize that the notification of a price change only coming from a single in-game banner a while ago.  The blog post was written but the publish button was never hit and for that, I am sorry.

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Do you think $2.99 is a reasonable amount for a game of this polish and complexity?

I think the game should cost negative money for its “polish”. Players are basically paying to be bug testers because devs obviously didn’t bother to complete the game before rushing it out. We should get paid for doing their jobs for them.

Edited by LaSpeakeasi

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if there is going to be any further content or bug fixes, such changes were inevitable.

 

100% agree. You get what you pay for and I'm happy to support the developers. Sentinels of the Multiverse is similar in many ways to Pathfinder. It's 100% pay-to-play and as a result has less bugs, more content and an engaged fanbase. There's no doubt Obsidian has tried to do the right thing by players, but there's enough f2p gacha around for those who want it.

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I think the game should cost negative money for its “polish”. Players are basically paying to be bug testers because devs obviously didn’t bother to complete the game before rushing it out. We should get paid for doing their jobs for them.

We should get paid for having to read your posts. They're like a master class in how to act six years old. Regardless, yes: There is an enormous amount of polish in this game. The way the artwork is blended, the effects and sounds, the character interactions and how different parties and different cards affect the dialogue, and most of all, the UI, which is, frankly, a masterpiece. From the ease which with you can interact with it, with often multiple ways to do the same thing, to the amount of information on the screen that's easily accessible--I wish all UIs were anywhere near this good.

 

As for the bugs? Pfft. I've been here from day one, and I've made more bug reports than you've had days without a tantrum. Yes, there are bugs; yes, they can be frustrating; and yes, they need to be fixed. Nonetheless, how about you stop stamping your feet and reflect on just how much work it's taken to bring a game to iOS that rises above the crap the App Store foists on us daily?

Edited by Bullwinkle
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Well said.

 

Being Obsidian's first mobile game we learned a lot of thing to not do in the future.  That is for certain.

 

I apologize that the notification of a price change only coming from a single in-game banner a while ago.  The blog post was written but the publish button was never hit and for that, I am sorry.

I feel that the publishers have tried to address the players demands. Personally, I think making this a pay to play game is the only path to having a long life and new content. I'm a huge fan of Skyrim, where there are 40,000 user mods. This game is so complex that I don't know if a user community could support it in that way. Hence, we depend on game developers to expand PA.

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I think the game should cost negative money for its “polish”. Players are basically paying to be bug testers because devs obviously didn’t bother to complete the game before rushing it out. We should get paid for doing their jobs for them.

 

While I am being a little bit sad about the price changes (not for me as I have everything I want :-D, but for new players), I would never had the temerity to belittle the hard work of others (as you often do), especially when the end product is so good. Yes, there are many bugs, we all agree on that. Developers are working on finding and correcting the bugs we discover.

If you had some experience with programming, you would understand that the requirements of such complex interactions, with no less than 5-6 different keywords or triggers and interplay of N different sub-programs, are extreme. We, as humans with somewhat creative mind and non-linear thinking, can mostly interpret interactions of specific cards correctly. But in computer, you have to think of every interaction between each possible pair (or even more) of cards/powers/checks and (which is the most daunting task) to force the 'stupid' computer program to behave in correct way in every single one of them. I don't know the Unity or what-its-name system, but even in the most simple languages, any such programming is time-consuming.

And when you forget one command in the 100000-line program, its function in one specific instance (discovered by 1 in e.g. 10000 players after 10 hours of playing - conservative estimate) is 'bugged'. Yes, that gives you the right and high moral ground to crticize the programmer in question. </sarcasm> Every one of us is human (sorry for our alien, animal or mythological friends) and we do mistakes.

 

A constructive remark: if the developers included some logging of the gameplay (and even that is a hard task as you should add PrintToLog('Something happened') into each and every one of the cards and powers, the bug-hunting would be much easier. But it would also prevent them from adding new content.

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I seldom pay for games and I was pleasantly surprised that Pathfinder Adventures offered so much free content in the beginning. I admit, I grinded for gold to "purchase" the original characters and adventure decks. I am very appreciative of the content that I was able to get for free and I completely understand that they are not able to offer that anymore. I was not really big on the goblin content and didn't bother getting that, but I am loving Valeros's backstory. I hope the developers continue to produce content like that. I am more than happy to pay for it.

 

The only thing I ask (if the devs are listening) is to continue to make content available on a piecemeal basis. I would have a hard time justifying $25 for an entire set, but I can pay $5 or so for individual modules from time to time. Video games are just not high on my financial priorities.

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No, YOU are the reason we can't have nice things. If a developer literally steals money from its customers then you should be condemning them for it, not supporting them for it. As long as literally ANY behaviour, no matter how shameful or criminal is supported then developers will continue down this rabbit hole.

 

I like Obsidian, they've made some good things in the past. But that doesn't excuse theft.

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Well said.

 

Being Obsidian's first mobile game we learned a lot of thing to not do in the future.  That is for certain.

 

I apologize that the notification of a price change only coming from a single in-game banner a while ago.  The blog post was written but the publish button was never hit and for that, I am sorry.

If you're planning on making people's purchases redundant you need to give FAR more notice than just popping it on the blog. You need to push that information so hard that no-one can miss it and have plenty of time to react. Even then it would have been nicer to have a smoother transition, for example locking gold purchases, no longer offering gold for playing (maybe add silver for this purpose?) and then you can give players months to spend the gold they already had. Assuming you don't have a way of back analysing gold that is bought from gold that is f2p.

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Even then it would have been nicer to have a smoother transition, for example locking gold purchases, no longer offering gold for playing (maybe add silver for this purpose?) and then you can give players months to spend the gold they already had. Assuming you don't have a way of back analysing gold that is bought from gold that is f2p.

 

Yes, they can look up how many real dollars you've spent on your account.  Send them an email at support@obsidian.net and explain your situation.  They're a reasonable enough group of people over there, and might be able to manually process whatever transaction the in-app store no longer allows.

 

Anyways, if you don't mind my asking... why would you buy a whole bunch of gold and then not use it to unlock content?  What were you waiting for?  

The reason that so few people have been really outraged by this change is that the only players it would theoretically affect are those who made a large gold purchase and then just sat on it for a while.

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I just visited a store today and took a look at the prices. The Rise of the Runelords box costs 55 euros.

 

Put things into perspective for me, at least.

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Even then it would have been nicer to have a smoother transition, for example locking gold purchases, no longer offering gold for playing (maybe add silver for this purpose?) and then you can give players months to spend the gold they already had. Assuming you don't have a way of back analysing gold that is bought from gold that is f2p.

 

Yes, they can look up how many real dollars you've spent on your account.  Send them an email at support@obsidian.net and explain your situation.  They're a reasonable enough group of people over there, and might be able to manually process whatever transaction the in-app store no longer allows.

 

Anyways, if you don't mind my asking... why would you buy a whole bunch of gold and then not use it to unlock content?  What were you waiting for?  

The reason that so few people have been really outraged by this change is that the only players it would theoretically affect are those who made a large gold purchase and then just sat on it for a while.

 

I'd bought the gold via the daily to be able to buy new adventures but hadn't got so far as unlocking them. Then the store stopped working so I couldn't and finally I'd been locked out.

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literally steals money

This literally kills me

 

I'm not a fan of the misuse of literally to mean figuratively but don't you think you're stretching the bounds of pedantry to take issue with "taking money and not providing the promised goods" as being functionally equivalent to stealing?

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I just visited a store today and took a look at the prices. The Rise of the Runelords box costs 55 euros.

 

Put things into perspective for me, at least.

I think the fundamental problem Obsidian have with this is in how overproduced PACG is. You get a lot of cardboard for your 55 euros but precious little design.

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literally steals money

This literally kills me

I'm not a fan of the misuse of literally to mean figuratively but don't you think you're stretching the bounds of pedantry to take issue with "taking money and not providing the promised goods" as being functionally equivalent to stealing?
The thing you bought is still yours. You cannot even get to theft via fuzzy logic.
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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Really, so if I buy a gift card from a store and come in next week and they say they no longer honour gift cards that's fine because I still have the thing I bought? Legally speaking I recognise Obsidian scammed me rather than robbed me but you SURELY have to see how they feel almost indistinguishable.

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Legally speaking I recognise Obsidian scammed me rather than robbed me but you SURELY have to see how they feel almost indistinguishable.

Then you're going to stop using the word "theft" now, correct?

 

Obsidian had/has no way of knowing what you *intended* to use the fake money that you spent real money on. You're pissed that they didn't uphold their end of some bargain...a bargain that only exists in your head. The analogy of the gift card only makes sense if all sides agree to what the gift card was for. Clearly, you're upset and odds are that if I were in your shoes, I would be too. The bigger questions are thus:

 

1. What is it that you're trying to accomplish here?

2. Is your current course of action *really* the most productive way to make it happen?

 

I, for one, am less inclined to be helpful when someone is acting belligerent toward me and/or accusing me of acting in bad faith when I am not. I have to imagine you're the same way (right?). So, again: really?

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Legally speaking I recognise Obsidian scammed me rather than robbed me but you SURELY have to see how they feel almost indistinguishable.

Then you're going to stop using the word "theft" now, correct?

 

Obsidian had/has no way of knowing what you *intended* to use the fake money that you spent real money on. You're pissed that they didn't uphold their end of some bargain...a bargain that only exists in your head. The analogy of the gift card only makes sense if all sides agree to what the gift card was for. Clearly, you're upset and odds are that if I were in your shoes, I would be too. The bigger questions are thus:

 

1. What is it that you're trying to accomplish here?

2. Is your current course of action *really* the most productive way to make it happen?

 

I, for one, am less inclined to be helpful when someone is acting belligerent toward me and/or accusing me of acting in bad faith when I am not. I have to imagine you're the same way (right?). So, again: really?

 

No I'm not. Outside of supreme pedants the word "theft" describes what Obsidian did succinctly and with enough clarity for practically any English speaking person on the planet. The only reason I'd need to drop it is if I ended up as part of a class-action lawsuit but realistically no.

 

I'm not expecting anything to happen here, people on the Internet aren't going to suddenly use logic and Obsidian aren't going to spontaneously develop a conscience.  I'm airing a grievance and sans emotion "I don't approve of you robbing me" just sounds silly. Of course I don't approve of it. The question is "how much?" It's only a few quid after all. It's more a problem of the insult than the injury. I suppose the other point I'm trying to make is "don't support thieves just because they're pleasant and good artists but that's not something I seriously expect anyone to take on board. No-one ever thinks deeper than "Obsidian are goodies, so the things they do must be good"

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