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Just how big a success will Deadfire be in your opinion ?

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D:OS2 being hailed as RPG of the year (so far) also has a lot to do with the competition being quite lackluster in 2017. AFAICS, there were two possible contenders (on PC; no idea about console-only titles), 

 

2017 has been a super strong year for RPG so far, especially if you have a PS4:

Nier:Automata

Nioh

Persona 5

Horizon Zero Dawn

Zelda:Breath of the Wild (Switch/Wuii exclusive)

 

Out of that list, Zelda: Breath of the Wild is pretty much the #1 game of all time now, Persona 5 was called a GOTY candidate and Horizon Zero Dawn was said to be the new The Witcher 3 at release.

 

I see no rpg in there :p

These games have a very different target group and, except Persona maybe, they are popular genres.

 

 

I don't think The Witcher 3 is a RPG, but the people who gave it RPG GOTY and called it the best RPG ever sure did... What a single person think is or not a RPG is totally meaningless when it comes to attribute games awards.

 

An argument can be made for all of them but Zelda. Zelda, like all Zelda games before and all Zelda games to come, is an action-adventure puzzle game. It is not and has never been in the RPG genre.

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D:OS2 being hailed as RPG of the year (so far) also has a lot to do with the competition being quite lackluster in 2017. AFAICS, there were two possible contenders (on PC; no idea about console-only titles), 

 

2017 has been a super strong year for RPG so far, especially if you have a PS4:

Nier:Automata

Nioh

Persona 5

Horizon Zero Dawn

Zelda:Breath of the Wild (Switch/Wuii exclusive)

 

Out of that list, Zelda: Breath of the Wild is pretty much the #1 game of all time now, Persona 5 was called a GOTY candidate and Horizon Zero Dawn was said to be the new The Witcher 3 at release.

 

I see no rpg in there :p

These games have a very different target group and, except Persona maybe, they are popular genres.

 

 

I don't think The Witcher 3 is a RPG, but the people who gave it RPG GOTY and called it the best RPG ever sure did... What a single person think is or not a RPG is totally meaningless when it comes to attribute games awards.

 

An argument can be made for all of them but Zelda. Zelda, like all Zelda games before and all Zelda games to come, is an action-adventure puzzle game. It is not and has never been in the RPG genre.

 

 

Looks like some people disagree with you on that.

 

Action-adventure +  RPG elements = RPG now. Unfortunately, see I don't disagree with you that Zelda games aren't RPGs, but mainstream think they are so...


Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.


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That very review calls it "The most RPG Zelda ever" and acclaims it's "RPG-style armor", saying it "reminds of the western RPG explosion". It doesn't actually call Zelda an RPG, and explicitly draws a distinction between this Zelda game and all Zelda games previous.

I will grant it is far more RPG-like than other Zelda games, but even Ocarina of Time was called an RPG by people who either don't bother to learn the distinction or just don't care.

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Well looking at the steam Achievement stays only 6% of total owners of pillars on steam have the kickstarter achievement, that is pretty good

I got kickstarter achievement even though I didn't back it via kickstarter... :)

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D:OS2 being hailed as RPG of the year (so far) also has a lot to do with the competition being quite lackluster in 2017. AFAICS, there were two possible contenders (on PC; no idea about console-only titles), 

 

 

2017 has been a super strong year for RPG so far, especially if you have a PS4:

Nier:Automata

Nioh

Persona 5

Horizon Zero Dawn

Zelda:Breath of the Wild (Switch/Wuii exclusive)

 

Out of that list, Zelda: Breath of the Wild is pretty much the #1 game of all time now, Persona 5 was called a GOTY candidate and Horizon Zero Dawn was said to be the new The Witcher 3 at release.

I see no rpg in there :p

These games have a very different target group and, except Persona maybe, they are popular genres.

 

I don't think The Witcher 3 is a RPG, but the people who gave it RPG GOTY and called it the best RPG ever sure did... What a single person think is or not a RPG is totally meaningless when it comes to attribute games awards.

People put Assassin's Creed on lists of best stealth games, even though it doesn't have functional stealth mechanic. It's not an RPG either even though you have an upgrade system. Hell, I wouldn't call Diablo an RPG. It's mechanics draw from RPGs but there is no roleplayig in it. Like in any other genre what RPG is can be defined. Many games adopted individual elements of RPGs but it hardly makes them RPGs. Witcher 3 is an odd case as it certainly has many RPGs roots. I heard it described as a roleplaying game where you can role play one character. And before you argue that it could be said about any game Witcher games encourage roleplay, while other games define characters outside players influence. Is witcher the best RPG of all time? Nah, but it's one of the best games I ever player. I would say just like "rogue-like" the term RPG is often misused by people who are familiar with games which use some of the elements of the genre, but are not familiar with genre itself.

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Witcher 3 is an rpg to me. It has roleplaying, even if it gives you a certain character. It's the minimum of roleplaying you can get in a game that defines it as an rpg for me.
Zelda, for example, is not an rpg. Though it gives you a certain character, you don't get to roleplay him even a bit. Zelda is one of the greatest exploration/adventure/dungeon crawling series ever, though.

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Witcher 3 is an rpg to me. It has roleplaying, even if it gives you a certain character. It's the minimum of roleplaying you can get in a game that defines it as an rpg for me.

Zelda, for example, is not an rpg. Though it gives you a certain character, you don't get to roleplay him even a bit. Zelda is one of the greatest exploration/adventure/dungeon crawling series ever, though.

 

Although the dialogue options were limited, I felt I did more roleplaying in a non RPG like Zelda BOTW than in typical JRPGs like the Tales series.  There were some dialogue options in the game that would make Link sound like a jerk

Edited by Bill Gates' Son

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Witcher 3 is an rpg to me. It has roleplaying, even if it gives you a certain character. It's the minimum of roleplaying you can get in a game that defines it as an rpg for me.

Zelda, for example, is not an rpg. Though it gives you a certain character, you don't get to roleplay him even a bit. Zelda is one of the greatest exploration/adventure/dungeon crawling series ever, though.

 

Although the dialogue options were limited, I felt I did more roleplaying in a non RPG like Zelda BOTW than in typical JRPGs like the Tales series.  There were some dialogue options in the game that would make Link sound like a jerk

 

 

Well, JRPG's have always been more about telling a story with gameplay intersecting at other points, be they with turn-based or brawler (?) combat systems. The Persona series of games are the only JRPG's where I don't think this applies (that I have played).

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in a world were Dark Souls series is considered an RPG game POE Deadfire won't compete sales wise.

It's good though. It would take an oversimplification to what we enjoy in the genre in order to make it  a commercial hit.

Something similar was done to Dragon Age Origins and we got the abomination that is DAII.

In short if it sells just enough to keep the series going I will be happy

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If you don't count the Witcher games as RPGs, your definition is way too narrow.

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Therefore I have sailed the seas and come

To the holy city of Byzantium. -W.B. Yeats

 

Χριστός ἀνέστη!

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I’d argue if you count aRPGs as RPGs, your definition is too broad ;)


"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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D:OS2 being hailed as RPG of the year (so far) also has a lot to do with the competition being quite lackluster in 2017. AFAICS, there were two possible contenders (on PC; no idea about console-only titles), 

 

2017 has been a super strong year for RPG so far, especially if you have a PS4:

Nier:Automata

Nioh

Persona 5

Horizon Zero Dawn

Zelda:Breath of the Wild (Switch/Wuii exclusive)

 

Out of that list, Zelda: Breath of the Wild is pretty much the #1 game of all time now, Persona 5 was called a GOTY candidate and Horizon Zero Dawn was said to be the new The Witcher 3 at release.

I see no rpg in there :p

These games have a very different target group and, except Persona maybe, they are popular genres.

 

I don't think The Witcher 3 is a RPG, but the people who gave it RPG GOTY and called it the best RPG ever sure did... What a single person think is or not a RPG is totally meaningless when it comes to attribute games awards.

People put Assassin's Creed on lists of best stealth games, even though it doesn't have functional stealth mechanic. It's not an RPG either even though you have an upgrade system. Hell, I wouldn't call Diablo an RPG. It's mechanics draw from RPGs but there is no roleplayig in it. Like in any other genre what RPG is can be defined. Many games adopted individual elements of RPGs but it hardly makes them RPGs. Witcher 3 is an odd case as it certainly has many RPGs roots. I heard it described as a roleplaying game where you can role play one character. And before you argue that it could be said about any game Witcher games encourage roleplay, while other games define characters outside players influence. Is witcher the best RPG of all time? Nah, but it's one of the best games I ever player. I would say just like "rogue-like" the term RPG is often misused by people who are familiar with games which use some of the elements of the genre, but are not familiar with genre itself.

 

Well, that's a distinction in *role-playing style*. There's *lots* of RPG's where you play one character through a storyline and the role-playing is in how you play that character and how you go through that storyline. Nox, Risen, the Fallout series (companions exist but are completely and totally optional and completely "play" themselves, you don't control them), any JRPG, Vampire: Bloodlines, etc.

Edited by Katarack21
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It seems to me that there is basically three types of way to define RPG.

 

To the codex crowd it is all about the combat, and old school sensibilities.  Examples are Age of Decadence, Underrail, and Grimrock.

 

The mainstream has the idea of rpg elements, which ends up with the idea that RPG must be about customizability. This is why you have games like CoD being touted for rpg elements. Examples are Diablo, most JRPGs, and Dark Souls.

 

Finally, there is the classic definition, which is that an RPG must live up to its acroynm. Games in this category include the Infinity Engine stuff, Fallout, and text adventure works.

 

Now you might just say that there is a ton of overlap in the aforementioned works. Of course, you'd be correct here, and that is the point ya dummy. Tabletop rpgs can be played and focused in any number of ways, which is how gaming works too. The definition is so insanely broad now, that there is little sense in attempting gatekeeping

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The playstyle (action or not) doesn't define an rpg for me. It's the roleplay that does.

 

If I went with that definition then I don't think any games could truly be called RPGs, as none really allow proper role-playing comparable to tabletop role-playing. I suppose some MUDs and, to a lesser extent, RP-servers for MMOs might count.

 

I think if I had to define what makes a game an RPG I'd say it's a combination of a heavy focus on story and some sort of progression system.

Edited by JerekKruger

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I’d argue if you count aRPGs as RPGs, your definition is too broad ;)

 

I don't understand why it should matter how fast you have to click on things to make them dead. :D

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Therefore I have sailed the seas and come

To the holy city of Byzantium. -W.B. Yeats

 

Χριστός ἀνέστη!

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