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Okay so Here is What Actually happened with Obsidian Writer that "Resigned"

Writer Writing Story

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#41
Osvir

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1. A writer wrote some stuff on the Internet <- Fact
2. A part of the Internet gets angry and offended <- Fact
3. *
4. Writer resigns <- Fact

*[Speculation/Questions]Did he feel pressured/sweaty because of Obsidian or did he feel pressured/sweaty because of the mob?[/speculation/questions]

That's all I get out of this article and thread.

So the OP is wondering if the quality of the writing is going to go down because of this? Who knows. Will it go up? Who knows. Would it have been better with the man in question still at Obsidian? Who knows. Will it be better because he resigned? Who knows.

Who knows!


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#42
CaesarCzech

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Ian Miles Cheong, lol.

 

Anyhow, I've read the comments, and no, they were not just 'conservative opinions'. Many of the 'opinions' expressed were scathingly racist, sexist, xenophobic and slanderous. Moreover, they were expressed on a public forum. If Obsidian did encourage the writer to resign because they didn't want to deal with having those comments linked to their company and their employees, that is entirely within their rights and not the injustice you lot wish to spin it as. It's his fault for not being more careful of the things he expressed in a public medium.

 

Secondly, the whole idea that this would lead to a game sanitized of controversial themes is frankly a misunderstanding of how any narrative artform works. Characters and even narrators in a narrative medium *do not* usually speak for the author. An author is perfectly capable of creating a racist, sexist, xenophobic, zealous character without sympathizing with those opinions. Do you think that the writers that scripted the possibility for the player to embrace Woedica are zealots? As Sawyer has said in a recent interview, racism against orlans will not magically go away and it is bound to be included *even as a trait for one of your companions*, namely Edér. There is no slippery slope here (and mind that the "slippery slope" isn't called a fallacy for no reason).

 

Thirdly, this thread was already closed once, why is it even allowed to be open again? Were I a mod I would have closed it immediately as this would go against moderator action. Lock this backwards nonsense, please.

 

For the record I do think the whole limerick business was blown way out of proportion, I think the joke was widely misunderstood but it was certainly more open to personal interpretation and so on. Less so this case, which is pretty straightforward and in which the context has also been provided to make for the tone and intention.

 

So According to you Ghazi did nothing wrong ? What  opinions were "scathingly racist, sexist, xenophobic and slanderous".

Tell me.

 

 

"I will continue to 'mix' it up until one of their boyfriends jacks me with a pipe." (re: black women)

 

I don't see how this is not slanderous, racist and sexist, for one. The assumption that black women are inherently adulterous aside, the attention given to interracial sexual relations here or in other comments like the proposition to ban unmarried Muslim men from entering the EU really speak for themselves. The fear of the loss of Western ideals before the exposure to other cultures, as well as the implied notion of keeping a 'pure white race' alive was already old-hat by the time Lovecraft was basing horror stories around it a century ago.

 

Also I never spoke of Ghazi. Do I think they did nothing wrong? Of course not, they're trash. But I won't assume that the comments made were any less derogatory and as has been addressed by me and several others before me, you are jumping to far-fetched and unfounded conclusions because of it.

 

 

You are not fan of interracial sexual relations ?  As for the Unmarried Muslim men thing, I dont see what is racist about Suggesting EU should adopt Canada Refugee policy. And the black woman things can be simply two fetishes. one for married women. I seen such people and i dont apreciate your kink shaming.


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#43
CaesarCzech

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"I will continue to 'mix' it up until one of their boyfriends jacks me with a pipe." (re: black women)

 

I don't see how this is not slanderous, racist and sexist, for one. The assumption that black women are inherently adulterous aside, the attention given to interracial sexual relations here or in other comments like the proposition to ban unmarried Muslim men from entering the EU really speak for themselves. The fear of the loss of Western ideals before the exposure to other cultures, as well as the implied notion of keeping a 'pure white race' alive was already old-hat by the time Lovecraft was basing horror stories around it a century ago.

 

Also I never spoke of Ghazi. Do I think they did nothing wrong? Of course not, they're trash. But I won't assume that the comments made were any less derogatory and as has been addressed by me and several others before me, you are jumping to far-fetched and unfounded conclusions because of it.

 

 

One of my favorite Lovecraft facts is that toward the end of his life he stated that the opinions of his younger self were incredibly foolish, misguided, and obnoxious. Aka, the biggest racist of fiction in the last century thought he was being an idiot when espousing those views.

 

 

I dont know how Is Lovecraft relevant to this discusion. This to me seems to me like what would be called virtue signaling. Furthermore are you really comparing Opinions of the Writer to Lovecrafts ? Im i understanding it right ?


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#44
CaesarCzech

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I hope Obsidian recognize the fact that these people are not their customers, fans and/or people who respect them. Heck, SJWs take pride in the fact they don't support the "dirty gaming industry".(not including candy crush)

 

So like I'm sure you'd call me an SJW (with all the misunderstanding applying that label entails) and I've been around since Black Isle. I'm not unique.

 

Not that there's any indication that anyone pressured Obsidian to fire the guy, or that Obsidian pressured the guy to quit.

 

 

So you think guy should have been fired for his opinions ?



#45
CaesarCzech

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Wait, what was controversial about Raedric's Hold?

His comments were bad, but not that bad. Annoying but not worth trying to out him. Have you ever been fired? It sucks hard. You never really get over it. At least he was only freelance.

But if Obsidian ousted him it's because they don't want it going viral and toxic, not because they want a bland, safe story.

Raedric hold jeez I meant the Village under it. Sorry for confusion its some time since i played it. I meant The tree.

 

Yeah sadly Obsidian was put into **** position not helped by the fact that part of gaming media is symphatetic to ghazi types.  And I doubt obsidian wants to piss them off What with them remembering the whole Fallout new Vegas Thing.


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#46
CaesarCzech

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1. A writer wrote some stuff on the Internet <- Fact
2. A part of the Internet gets angry and offended <- Fact
3. *
4. Writer resigns <- Fact

*[Speculation/Questions]Did he feel pressured/sweaty because of Obsidian or did he feel pressured/sweaty because of the mob?[/speculation/questions]

That's all I get out of this article and thread.

So the OP is wondering if the quality of the writing is going to go down because of this? Who knows. Will it go up? Who knows. Would it have been better with the man in question still at Obsidian? Who knows. Will it be better because he resigned? Who knows.

Who knows!

 

Who knows indeed. Im afraid that this might be just first step on slope. Afterall Hitler didnt suddenly come to power in germany and proceeded to invade russia minute  later. if you get what i mean. 



#47
Osvir

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"Who knows" as in "I don't give a damn"-

Also:
e31.jpg


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#48
Leferd

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Ian Miles Cheong, lol.


Good grief. Exitium/Rex wrote that garbage? Figures he's writing for the Daily Caller. Even his level of insufferability got him booted from the Codex.
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#49
Flouride

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Wait, what was controversial about Raedric's Hold?

His comments were bad, but not that bad. Annoying but not worth trying to out him. Have you ever been fired? It sucks hard. You never really get over it. At least he was only freelance.

But if Obsidian ousted him it's because they don't want it going viral and toxic, not because they want a bland, safe story.

Raedric hold jeez I meant the Village under it. Sorry for confusion its some time since i played it. I meant The tree.

 

What is so special about the village that people would get upset over it? It's not like they are hanging muslims, black women or people who made bad limerics. There's nothing to be upset about, or well at least not in SJW way.


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#50
JerekKruger

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@CaesarCzech - first, multiquote is your friend, not your event. Second, did you really make a reference to the rise of Hitler in comparison to this issue?! I think the bastardised version of Godwin's Law is dumb, but still...
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#51
Gromnir

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so a guy posts bigoted nonsense over at rpgcodex (color us surprised) and ends up quitting 'cause somebody accurately identifies the author and shares intriguing pith such as, "if they're young and male and a muslim, you don't let them in, period," with the gaming community.  am not seeing a story.  share your brobdingnagian stoopidity or vile turpitude with the world and the world may decide to return the favor.  sure, is america, so the government can't punish you for your opinions, but your friends, neighbors and non-government employers can chastise you for bad behavior. thank god. 
 
yup, there will be grey areas where we should ask whether or not an employer is wise to punish employees for opinions which may offend. 60 years ago, an employee voicing an opinion that it were un-american to deny lgbt prospective employees equal consideration woulda' been deemed offensive.  heck, 60 years ago, and in much o' the us south, suggesting blacks deserved equality in the workplace woulda' shocked many.  am seeing value in questioning unpopular policies.  even so, am not recognizing the present speaker as dwelling in such a grey area, but perhaps others disagree. 
 
is nothing wrong or un-american in condemning your fellow american's opinions. heck, is precisely 'cause o' the first amendment that Gromnir sees, if not an affirmative duty, then a moral obligation for citizens to respond to the hateful or offensive speech o' their fellow americans.  stand by idle and quiet while bigots spew their venom is your right, just as much is it is the right o' any ex-obsidian freelance writer to be a bigot. 'course such silence is, in our mind, near as offensive as is the bigoted speech. we got unique speech rights here in the US, but such rights should carry with 'em a sense o' responsibility.  when confronted by small-minded bigots and purveyors o' hate, one should feel compelled to respond. 
 
HA! Good Fun!

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#52
Valmy

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By the way the group in question is called 'GamerGhazi' and Ghazi is a term for an Islamic Holy Warrior and this is now being blamed on 'SJWs'? I don't get that either. I mean is everybody who is not a right wing activist considered a 'SJW' these days?


Edited by Valmy, 07 September 2017 - 10:52 AM.

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#53
Belle Sorciere

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I hope Obsidian recognize the fact that these people are not their customers, fans and/or people who respect them. Heck, SJWs take pride in the fact they don't support the "dirty gaming industry".(not including candy crush)

 

So like I'm sure you'd call me an SJW (with all the misunderstanding applying that label entails) and I've been around since Black Isle. I'm not unique.

 

Not that there's any indication that anyone pressured Obsidian to fire the guy, or that Obsidian pressured the guy to quit.

 

 

So you think guy should have been fired for his opinions ?

 

 

I said nothing of the sort.

 

However, I think people should be careful about what they espouse in public, and should they espouse racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, transphobic stuff in public, they (and their supporters) should be neither surprised nor aggrieved when there are consequences. That doesn't necessarily translate to "I think the guy should have been fired." It does translate to "His departure in light of this information does not surprise or aggrieve me."

 

Free speech is nice but there is no freedom from consequences for that speech. He chose to be openly racist and sexist. No one compelled him to do it. No one held a gun to his head and forced him to write those posts. The choice to do so is entirely on him.

 

Also, as a point of clarification, my post was not actually about whether this guy should have been fired or whether he should have quit or whatever the heck happened because who knows what happened? Not anyone in this thread.

 

My post was simply to point out that "yes, in fact, people who might be called SJWs are gamers and fans of Obsidian." We're not on the outside looking in, we've been here all along. Even given my progressive politics I am a Deadfire backer, and I've been playing Obsidian's games since before it was Obsidian. Since people worked for Black Isle Studio and made Fallout.


Edited by Belle Sorciere, 07 September 2017 - 11:56 AM.

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#54
HoonDing

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this is an outrage


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#55
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this is an outrage

 

Do you smoulder with generic rage?



#56
IndiraLightfoot

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I hope Obsidian recognize the fact that these people are not their customers, fans and/or people who respect them. Heck, SJWs take pride in the fact they don't support the "dirty gaming industry".(not including candy crush)

 

So like I'm sure you'd call me an SJW (with all the misunderstanding applying that label entails) and I've been around since Black Isle. I'm not unique.

 

Not that there's any indication that anyone pressured Obsidian to fire the guy, or that Obsidian pressured the guy to quit.

 

 

So you think guy should have been fired for his opinions ?

 

 

I said nothing of the sort.

 

However, I think people should be careful about what they espouse in public, and should they espouse racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, transphobic stuff in public, they (and their supporters) should be neither surprised nor aggrieved when there are consequences. That doesn't necessarily translate to "I think the guy should have been fired." It does translate to "His departure in light of this information does not surprise or aggrieve me."

 

Free speech is nice but there is no freedom from consequences for that speech. He chose to be openly racist and sexist. No one compelled him to do it. No one held a gun to his head and forced him to write those posts. The choice to do so is entirely on him.

 

Also, as a point of clarification, my post was not actually about whether this guy should have been fired or whether he should have quit or whatever the heck happened because who knows what happened? Not anyone in this thread.

 

My post was simply to point out that "yes, in fact, people who might be called SJWs are gamers and fans of Obsidian." We're not on the outside looking in, we've been here all along. Even given my progressive politics I am a Deadfire backer, and I've been playing Obsidian's games since before it was Obsidian. Since people worked for Black Isle Studio and made Fallout.

 

Post of the week, as far as I am concerned.  Well phrased and formulated, and your stance... well, let's just say I sympathize vehemently. :)


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#57
HoonDing

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im sure he's very sorry, but it's just locker room talk



#58
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“Scummer, pox and wound rot!" roared Tunstall, slamming his fist down on the bed. "Gods cursed the pig-tarsed mammering craven currish beef-witted bum-licking gut-griping louts that did this to me! May every flea, leech and hookworm in all creation find and feast upon them!”

― Tamora Pierce, Bloodhound



#59
dukeisaac

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This whole series is idiotic. People with agendas speculating about what maybe happened with a company they have no inside knowledge about. Simplest explanation : there's no conspiracy, one less writer wont change the overall quality of Deadfire and no, Obsidian isnt going "mainstream", whatever that means. Relax and take a long hike in nature. It'll do you a world of good.


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#60
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Wait, what was controversial about Raedric's Hold?

His comments were bad, but not that bad. Annoying but not worth trying to out him. Have you ever been fired? It sucks hard. You never really get over it. At least he was only freelance.

But if Obsidian ousted him it's because they don't want it going viral and toxic, not because they want a bland, safe story.

Raedric hold jeez I meant the Village under it. Sorry for confusion its some time since i played it. I meant The tree.

Yeah sadly Obsidian was put into **** position not helped by the fact that part of gaming media is symphatetic to ghazi types. And I doubt obsidian wants to piss them off What with them remembering the whole Fallout new Vegas Thing.

Gah. What was the Thing with FNV?

And seriously, the tree was just dark, not offensive. I'd have to go listen to the developer commentary about it again. I think they said they force a conversation there because they want the player to see it because it makes a point about the setting.





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