Soul whip focus generation bugged

[nstgc]

With endurance at 100% soul whip should generate 83.33... per 100 points of damage. 33 from talent, 25 from Talisman of the Unconquerable, and 25 base. However, it consistently, even after reloading the game, generating about between 47.8-65.8% of damage as focus. It isn't even consistently wrong. If it was I'd just assume that the formula I am using is wrong.

 

edit: Also, now that I'm looking at it, the character sheet says that it gives a +140% bonus, instead of the more accurately displayed 40%. It's doing 140% of base damage, which is also wrong since there are other bonuses (might).

 

edit2: And I'm calculating all this down with damage dealt after DR. Not pre-DR, but the actual damage mobs are taking.

Edited August 27, 2017 by nstgc

[MaxQuest]

With endurance at 100% soul whip should generate 83.33... per 100 points of damage. 33 from talent, 25 from Talisman of the Unconquerable, and 25 base. However, it consistently, even after reloading the game, generating about between 47.8-65.8% of damage as focus. It isn't even consistently wrong. If it was I'd just assume that the formula I am using is wrong.

Well...

 

In v3.00 base focus gain (per point of damage dealt) was increased from 0.25 to 0.35.

 

0.35 * 1.33 (draining whip) = 46.55%

0.35 * 1.33 (draining whip) * 1.25 (talisman) = 58.18%

 

So you get 58.88 focus per 100 (post-DR) damage dealt (while being above 50% endurance).

 

---

How have you arrived to 83.33?

[Boeroer]

He plainly added the numbers of Soul Whip, Biting Whip and Talisman I guess.

[MaxQuest]

I thought so as well. That .33 puzzled me though, as if it was pointing that there is multiplication at hand.

[nstgc]

I see. Well, that makes more sense then. As for why I added the numbers, everything with a percentage seems to be additive, so I added. I wouldn't have ever guessed that they added multiplicatively since as far as I can tell nothing else stacks that way. Still, the range is weird. Oh well. Thanks MaxQuest. Also, love that calculator in your sig.

 

edit: By the way, the +3 Focus from Twin Sting, does that apply before or after the multiplicative bonus?

Edited August 29, 2017 by nstgc

[Boeroer]

It's all a big mess in PoE.

 

Attack speed bonuses (most of them, but not all) and reloading speed bonuses multiply, too.

 

As for Twin Sting: good question!

Edited August 29, 2017 by Boeroer

[nstgc]

I know damage bonus are all additive, and armor speed penalties are as well. Speed bonus from dual wielding is multiplicative with DEX, but both of those modify different things (recover time versus total time). Ack! MaxQuest! Save me from my ignorance!

[MaxQuest]

DEX affects attack animation and reloading animation durations. And attack animation duration affects recovery duration (recovery is basically attack_duration * computed_coefficient).

"+x% attack speed" bonuses (including those from dual-wielding) affect that computed_coefficient (hence they affect only recovery).

I have wrote it in more detail here.

 

Also, love that calculator in your sig.

Thanks. Glad to hear that)

 

edit: By the way, the +3 Focus from Twin Sting, does that apply before or after the multiplicative bonus?

Good question. Afaik it could be implemented both ways. So I'd better test it, before asserting anything.

But in any case, Twin Sting is not the best weapon for steady focus generation. If you want to use it, the optimal way would likely be: use it's DAoM property, make two shots and switch to The Rain of Godagh Field warbow.

[nstgc]

edit: By the way, the +3 Focus from Twin Sting, does that apply before or after the multiplicative bonus?

Good question. Afaik it could be implemented both ways. So I'd better test it, before asserting anything.

But in any case, Twin Sting is not the best weapon for steady focus generation. If you want to use it, the optimal way would likely be: use it's DAoM property, make two shots and switch to The Rain of Godagh Field warbow.

 

 

I haven't gotten that yet. I'm using Twin Sting for now since it has the greatest punch among my weapons for sustained use. I have Caroc using, and switching out, firearms, but my Cipher isn't built to take full advantage of firearms. The other weapon my Cipher has is the Stormcaller for when the party runs into something that has high piercing DR. It is still only exceptional since i haven't gotten to the Sky Dragon's Lair. Or at least I don't think I do.

 

Also, that War Bow would be, on my Cipher with Penatrating shot on, about 33% faster (I did not try to calculate this on my own, I used your calculator), however the war bow hits for 25% less base damage, and doesn't have the accuracy or damage bonus of the Twin Sting. After taking into consideration might and soul whip's damage bonus, the bow deals 31% less damage per hit. So 1.33...*0.69 = 0.92 (I rounded two two decimal places, but used 4 significant figures for the calculation). So over all, ignore the effects of DR and accuracy (both of which favor the cross bow), Twin Sting hits for about 9% more than The Rain of Godagh Field, even if I added Exceptional enchantment too it, which is the highest I can add right now. For now, Twin Sting is the best ranged weapon I have.

 

If I turn off Penatrating shot, this would work in favor of the War Bow in terms of speed, but since the foes I'm facing are sufficiently armored, the damage penalty from deactivating it would be much harsher than the Cross Bow would take.

 

The way I computed the damage differance, was [(1+0.3+0.09+0.4)(13+20)]/[(1+0.45+0.09+0.4)(18+26)]

 

1 for base damage, 0.3 for exceptional (0.45 superb), 0.09 for might, and 0.4 for Soul Whip.

 

(13+20)/2 would be average damage assuming I don't hit the minimum damage limit. Ditto for (18+26)/2. The 1/2 cancels out so I didn't include those.

Edited August 30, 2017 by nstgc

[MaxQuest]

Also, that War Bow would be, on my Cipher with Penatrating shot on, about 33% faster (I did not try to calculate this on my own, I used your calculator), however the war bow hits for 25% less base damage

It's hard to estimate these, as it depends on what other buffs, properties, equipment do you have.

 

For example at zero-recovery the warbow becomes even faster in comparison to Twin Sting:

The Rain of Godagh Field (10 DEX, zero-rec): 5 delay + 45 attack + 0 recovery = 50 frames

Twin Sting (10 DEX, zero-rec): 5 delay + 45 attack + 0 recovery + 100/2 reloading = 100 frames (i.e. warbow is by 100% faster)

Twin Sting (10 DEX, zero-rec, gunner): 5 delay + 45 attack + 0 recovery + 83.3/2 reloading = 91.65 frames (i.e. warbow is by 83.3% faster)

 

Plus it's easier to achieve the said zero-recovery, due to speed enchantment and ability to durganize.

Also it's important to keep in mind that:

- soulbound weapons cannot be lashed, which can add up to 25% of damage (which contributes to focus generation, unlike raw damage from Twin Sting).

- rain comes already in superb quality.

 

So it all comes to: at what stage you are in the game. My personal opinion is that Stormcaller and Twin Sting shine most on levels 6-7 (if you can get them that early) and generally until you unlock the White Forge.

Edited August 30, 2017 by MaxQuest

[nstgc]

I'm not building for zero recovery and I don't have Kana in the party. With my current buffs and gear, it is accurate to say that Twin Sting is the best I have at the moment. I'm not the sort to min-max, but rather just play in a way that is fun for me. Currently I'm on hard with a party of three (cipher + 2 others). Those two would probably make your cringe since they aren't what most people would choose, but they are working well enough for me that damn near every encounter is a cake way. Level 12 party going through WM2.

Edited August 30, 2017 by nstgc

[MaxQuest]

Indeed, the most important thing is to have fun)