"Full Attack" when not dual-wielding?

[Pallegina's Panties]

Is there a point to picking up these kind of abilities (such as the Barbarian one) if you're not? It just seems that they are built around dual-wielding and not much else. Like, two weapons get a huge benefit from these but what about two-handers?

[Torm51]

Forgive my long explanation.

 

Flames of Devotion still hits DAMN hard with a 2hander and even harder with an Arbalest.  So yes.  You get much better DR bypass with two handed weapons or single shot reload weapons as they have an extremely high minimum damage.  Duel wielding you are still using one handed weapons so the DR bypass isnt as good.  That being said there are definitely builds that benefit more and hit harder when duel wielding (and that includes the full attack abilities you state).  Builds that come to mind are a Monster Lash Bleak Walker with the two Sabres from the white march that do Corrode damage.  Rogues because of their extremely high bonus damage, Duel wield Barbarians/Fighters with Sabres and Monks for sure.

 

That being said Sabres were nerfed so they arent as good as they used to be.  Still the best dps weapon for one handed I think.

 

So it really depends on the class and the build.  If you are going for a durable front liner who can still deal good damage and burst damages like a Paladin a 2hander or Arbalest is better.  Also Great Weapon Fighters are my favorite.  They still tank well, hit extremely hard per hit and are very accurate thanks to Disciplined Barrage.  Properly supported with even more accuracy they are really good for sustained fights on PoTD. 

 

I am currently running a 1 Paladin, 2 Fighter front line on this PoTD (ToI and Expert Mode, currently at lvl 11) and the Duel Wield fighter (custom) is beating Eder (Great Sword/Pike Fighter) by about 10,000 damage.  The DW is a Ruffian spec fighter and uses 2 sabres and the Jolting Touch Stilletto, plus the club you get in Defiance Bay for killing the necromancer. and honestly with weapon mastery im favoring the fast weapons and using them most of the time (except against high DR).  He is killing it.  That being said Eder does much better against high DR targets.  Even with DR debuffed some dragons can have DR in the high teens.  A 2hander is better in this case for certain builds like a non Bleak Walker Paladin...also I might be wrong but Great Weapon Fighters perform better against high DR.  As stated above rogues, Barbs and Monks are better off Duel wielding cause of their unique bonuses.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Torm51

[Pallegina's Panties]

So in essence full attack abilities are not worth it on anything but a dual-wielder?

[MortyTheGobbo]

No. They're perfectly functional for characters who aren't dual-wielders. Particularly since many of them have non-damaging traits anyway.

[Pallegina's Panties]

I guess it is a matter of being optimal or not. Talents are few and far inbetween. Wouldn't want to go for an sub-optimal choice.

[Torm51]

I guess it is a matter of being optimal or not. Talents are few and far inbetween. Wouldn't want to go for an sub-optimal choice.

Not quite its a matter of class and build.  Like  I said for a Paladin who is a tank but wants burst ability after a boss is hard CCed a two hander or a high damage one shot ranged weapon is better (Flames of Devotion).  Also specifically for Paladin as a damage dealer (you will never be a true dpser as a paladin just a sturdy front line guy with good damage) who is not a Bleak Walker two handed weapons are better (see monster lash build for DW Paladin).  Lastly, I personally I think that because of Fighter Weapon Mastery they are the BEST two handed users.  Yes their one handed damage also goes up but Eder has a minimum damage of 31 with Tidefall.  So they are accurate and hit hard to get past DR which is awesome in PotD cause of higher enemy deflection.  With these two classes I just mentioned for sure in the Paladins case (unsure of a fighter with sabers after the nerf) a two handed weapon will be better.

 

That being said most other damage dealer classes are better off with their full attack abilities and duel wielding.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Torm51

[MortyTheGobbo]

If you play on Normal, the game isn't going to get hard enough that using a suboptimal choice is going to be too hard on you.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So in essence full attack abilities are not worth it on anything but a dual-wielder?

Not at all, FoD for example is great for any damage and the rest do very well with 2-handers and such. Barbaric Blow or Heart of Fury with a 2-hander will hit very hard and punch through DT, if I read your OP right.

[Boeroer]

FoD is best with an arquebus, not two sabres for example.

 

But with a rogue, dual wielding is generally better when using his Full Attack strike abilities. That's because his first swing with the offhand will already apply the affliction and the second swing with the main hand will get Sneak Attack bonus.

Besides the bonus damage, you will also have a second chance to apply the affliction in case you missed the first swing.

 

An extreme example where dual wielding with Full Attacks is a lot better is monk's Torment's Reach.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Boeroer

[GuyNice]

I guess it is a matter of being optimal or not. Talents are few and far inbetween. Wouldn't want to go for an sub-optimal choice.

You don't have to play 100% optimally to beat the game on PotD. Keep in mind there are people who play it solo or without 6 party members. I feel like going completely cookie cutter eliminates much of the challenge in the game, making many fights less engaging and thrilling than they would be otherwise. However I do understand the temptation to min-max especially if it's your first playthrough, or first time playing PotD.

 

There is a ton of variety of builds and itemization in this game, and the balance is great considering how many variables they have to account for. It's a shame to disregard so much of the variety in favor of dual wielding sabres on every melee character. Although I understand the temptation. And like Torm51 mentioned, many scenarios still favor 2handers, especially before you reach very high levels and have all the "OP" pieces come together. Firebrand for example is tremendously powerful for how early you can get it. Tidefall and BotEP are superb and can be centerpieces for builds (wounding and draining is great for a melee Ranger, BotEP for a marking specialist, etc.).

 

TL;DR: Dual wielding is better against low DR and towards the end of the game, but until then two-handers are just as viable and often better, plus variety is cool.

Edited July 28, 2017 by GuyNice

[Pallegina's Panties]

It is not really that I want to squeeze every ounce of effectiveness out of my character. It is just that the Barbarian have sooooo many little talents here and there that are all pretty neat.

[GuyNice]

It is not really that I want to squeeze every ounce of effectiveness out of my character. It is just that the Barbarian have sooooo many little talents here and there that are all pretty neat.

I know what you mean. I usually skip Barbaric Blow on my Barbarian, especially if I don't have her use two weapons (or a 1H + Bash shield).

[Pallegina's Panties]

 

It is not really that I want to squeeze every ounce of effectiveness out of my character. It is just that the Barbarian have sooooo many little talents here and there that are all pretty neat.

I know what you mean. I usually skip Barbaric Blow on my Barbarian, especially if I don't have her use two weapons (or a 1H + Bash shield).

 

 

Aye, me too. But now this fancy-looking "Heart of Fury" has started poppin' up each level-up, haha.

[GuyNice]

 

 

It is not really that I want to squeeze every ounce of effectiveness out of my character. It is just that the Barbarian have sooooo many little talents here and there that are all pretty neat.

I know what you mean. I usually skip Barbaric Blow on my Barbarian, especially if I don't have her use two weapons (or a 1H + Bash shield).

 

 

Aye, me too. But now this fancy-looking "Heart of Fury" has started poppin' up each level-up, haha.

 

Definitely do not skip out on Heart of Fury. Dual-wielding or not, the way it interacts with Carnage leads to INSANE results. A must-have if anything is in the Barbarian arsenal.