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Cipher Question

Cipher Build Powers DPS CC Crowd Control

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#61
hansvedic

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I'm thinking about making a frontline cipher that does some cc and some damage. 

Specifically, I'm thinking about a Hearth Orlan for hit to crit conversion (from Ixamitl Plains for the pike starting weapon and bonus resolve upon transfer to Deadfire) that will eventually wield dual Godansthunyr (so Weapon Focus Soldier would be chosen) for the boost to might and the stun on crits, along with dual damage types.

 

I'm thinking of the following stats:

Might: 15 (17 with dual Godansthunyr)

Con: 9

Dex: 15

Per: 15

Int: 16

Res: 8

 

Two questions:

1. Does the stat spread look good?

2. What powers would you recommend for such a frontliner?


Edited by hansvedic, 27 February 2018 - 06:00 AM.


#62
Slack83er

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In next run I’d like to go cipher. Things I know are:
High res for dialogues, prolly two weapons like hatchets which with high res go for high deflection, high dex for high speed.

Which race would suit? Maybe I’d like wild Orlan but it’s just a guess..
The attitude I like to play the most is clever..
and would like wtw bg. So maybe even pale elf or dwarf...
I still have a long way to go before completing my pally play through so... hope to gather many info!

Edited by Slack83er, 27 February 2018 - 06:33 AM.


#63
MaxQuest

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I'm thinking about making a frontline cipher that does some cc and some damage.

A mix of v1 and v3? Generally it's ok.
But personally I always feel a but guilty when casting a cc power with such cipher, because points put in MIG do not contribute) 

and bonus resolve upon transfer to Deadfire)

You think you'll be able to import the orlan, choose a new race, but retain +1 RES and +2 PER? :)

Two questions:
1. Does the stat spread look good?
2. What powers would you recommend for such a frontliner?

1. It will do.
2. You will still want Whisper of Treason, Mental Binding and Amplified Wave. From damage inflicting powers you would need Soul Shock, Echo, Silent Scream, Detonate and Disintegration.
And ofc Time Parasite is a must, unless you craft DAoM potions.

#64
hansvedic

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I'm thinking about making a frontline cipher that does some cc and some damage.

A mix of v1 and v3? Generally it's ok.
But personally I always feel a but guilty when casting a cc power with such cipher, because points put in MIG do not contribute) 

and bonus resolve upon transfer to Deadfire)

You think you'll be able to import the orlan, choose a new race, but retain +1 RES and +2 PER? :)

Two questions:
1. Does the stat spread look good?
2. What powers would you recommend for such a frontliner?

1. It will do.
2. You will still want Whisper of Treason, Mental Binding and Amplified Wave. From damage inflicting powers you would need Soul Shock, Echo, Silent Scream, Detonate and Disintegration.
And ofc Time Parasite is a must, unless you craft DAoM potions.

 

Thanks for the feedback, MaxQuest.

Quick question: Why do you say that I would change my race when transferring to Deadfire? Can you not keep the same race when transferring?



#65
MaxQuest

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^ You can.

 

I just wonder why you mentioned "bonus resolve")


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#66
hansvedic

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^ You can.

 

I just wonder why you mentioned "bonus resolve")

 

The "bonus resolve" is from the background, Ixamitl Plains. Sorry for the confusion.



#67
hansvedic

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Sorry again for the double-post.

I just wanted to know... Is Novice's Suffering Cipher still any good? I know that the soul whip bonus doesn't work well with the wimpy base damage of fists, but I'm still interested.

If so, how would you go about building it? Presumably it would be a DPS cipher, of course.


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#68
Boeroer

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You wouldn't want to take Biting Whip and all the other dmg bonus talents like Savage Attack and so on. But Draining Whip should work fine I guess?

You'll want max MIG because its bonus also works with the N. Suffering's flat damage bonus and not only with the base damage. Same with Sandals of the Forgotten Friar that you should seek. So in the end it works like:
(Base damage (5-8 ) + Suffering's bonus (scales) + Sandal's Bonus (2)) * MIG bonus.

Edited by Boeroer, 07 March 2018 - 11:25 AM.

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#69
hansvedic

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Thanks, Boeroer.

 

On another note, why does the wiki say that Novice's Suffering bonus damage does not scale with Might?

From the Wiki:

"It grants +5 (+2 per 3 levels after 1) unarmed damage – for a total of +15 damage at level 16 – and +0 (+4 per 3 levels after 1) unarmed accuracy. The bonus damage is not subject to increase by stats such as Might, unlike the monk variant."

 

https://pillarsofete...ce's_Suffering



#70
Boeroer

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Hm, don't know. Last time I used it (with Edér) it did. I still have the save and can check tomorrow, am almost asleep... :)
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#71
Boeroer

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So, after waking up and doing my morning routine I loaded the savegame and voilá:

novice_suffering_eder.png?dl=1

 

Still works as I said: base damage + suffering's bonus + sandals all get added and then multiplied with might bonus.

 

5+11+2 = 18
18 * 1.18 = 21

 

8+11+2 = 21

21 * 1.18 = 25

 

The wiki is wrong - I will edit the entry accordingly...

 

edit: edited the wiki page and also the page about the Sandals of the Forgotten Friar so that it's clear that those get affected by MIG. Also edited the page about Transcendent Suffering (there was no hint about MIG influence either). I also added info about the accuracy bonus not working with melee attack abilites such as Knockdown/Force of Anguish and so on.


Edited by Boeroer, 08 March 2018 - 02:11 AM.

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#72
hansvedic

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Thanks, Boeroer! I appreciate your testing and insight.

 

As I plan out this Novice's Suffering Cipher, I am trying to decide on stats. I notice that MaxQuest puts at least 2 point into PER for his DPS ciphers, and yet I am wondering how big of a difference +2 or +3 accuracy really makes in the long run; I am certain it makes a difference in the beginning, but in the long run, I wonder if those points would be better served in DEX or INT, especially with the fast speed of the fists.

On another note, I notice that resolve for a DPS cipher is 8 at lowest in MaxQuest's suggestions. Is lower than that not recommended due to interrupts? 

Feel free to chime in, MaxQuest. I appreciate your insight into ciphers as well.

Finally, for a little background on my planned party... I am planning on using the official companions, with Aloth and/or Grieving Mother (and probably Hiravias, too) on CC duty.  My cipher main character may also do some CC, but I would prefer that, especially after the early game, that my cipher focuses on doing lots and lots of damage, with a bit of CC used as needed.

Basically, what's a good attribute spread with max might (either human, aumaua, or dwarf, though I am leaning towards human)?



#73
Boeroer

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For Novice's Suffering you don't need a lot of PER because grazes do nearly the same damage as crits - since the 50% malus/bonus only affect the whimpy 5-8 base damage. But your powers might want some bonus accuracy. :) But on the other hand: those get some bonuses anyways, also the +1/level as extra.

Edited by Boeroer, 12 March 2018 - 08:25 AM.

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#74
MasterCipher

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Off topic - A lot of new information to me about novice suffering - trying to think of a way to min-max it. 

 

Debuffs from wizard: with combusting wounds and exploit weakness

 

Barbarian carnage or druid with avenging storm ? 



#75
Boeroer

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Combusting Wounds + Heart of Fury: this makes a big difference with tough, numerous foes (bounties, abbey and so on).

CW + Expose Vulnerabilities + Blunderbuss

CW + Expose Vulnerabilities + Wall of Flame

...and so on. The Backlash Beldam build used CW + multiretaliation + Pain Link which was effective as well. With Battle Forged, Flame Shield, Supper Plate and another retaliation item plus Pain Link you can stack 5 hits and thus 5 instances of CW on everybody who hits you.

I once played an Island Aumaua Wizard with 4 blunderbusses (+Quick Switch). It's impressive single target damage.

Edited by Boeroer, 12 March 2018 - 08:27 PM.

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#76
StormOwnz

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What is the build list for the v5 cipher?







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Cipher, Build, Powers, DPS, CC, Crowd Control

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