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Cipher Question

Cipher Build Powers DPS CC Crowd Control

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#41
MaxQuest

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Maxquest, what powers would you recommend for your v1 frontline DPS build?

A v1 cipher has high might and would like to take advantage of it by using damaging powers.
Thus:
- Soul Shock (!), Whispers of Treason (!), Antipathetic Field ®, Tenuous Grasp (~)
- Mental Binding (!), Amplified Thrust ®, Recall Agony (!) (vs high HP enemies; and yes, it scales with MIG), Psychovampiric Shield ®; Note: Mind Blades - is nice in theory but weak in practice, because it can stop bouncing.
- Ectopsychic Echo (!!), Soul Ignition (!), Puppet Master (~) (only if it's your only cipher)
- Silent Scream (!!), Mind Lance ®, Pain Block ®, Wild Leech ®, Going Between (~) (only if it's your only cipher)
- Detonate ®, Tactical Meld ®, Borrowed Instinct ®
- Disintegration (!!), Amplified Wave (!)
- Time Parasite (!), Stasis Shell (~)
- Reaping Knives (~) (you'd like to have a barb in party), Defensive Mindweb (~) (Mindweb is quite situational, because it comes with heavy opportunity cost)

Edited by MaxQuest, 25 August 2017 - 07:51 AM.


#42
dgray62

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Thanks for the recommendation, MaxQuest. I can see that these choice make sense for a high might cipher.  Do you think it would make sense to take psychic backlash and brutal backlash in a v1 cipher, given the discussion taking place in another thread (https://forums.obsid...ychic-backlash/ )? They would seem to be much more useful on a melee cipher than a ranged cipher, but they also come at a high opportunity cost, given how few talents ciphers gain.



#43
MaxQuest

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Backlash talents were close to useless at 1-per-encounter, because there were better alternative talents, especially those that would directly or indirectly increase focus generation.

On the other hand if Psychic Backlash procs with no limit, it becomes OP. Because it has potential to trivialize all enemies with frightening/terrified aura, plus it helps vs enemy priests, ciphers, etc. Basically it becomes a must-have.

I don't have a strong pov on Brutal Backlash though. Will need to test it first.

Edited by MaxQuest, 25 August 2017 - 09:14 AM.


#44
Boeroer

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You obviously didn't watch Raven's video with the bog dragons vs Brutal Backlash. :)

 

Brutal Backlash against fear auras is totally OP now.


Edited by Boeroer, 25 August 2017 - 09:16 AM.

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#45
Raven Darkholme

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I think if you don't wanna respec, just get regular backlash, but if you're willing to do all dragons in one go and respec before, def go brutal backlash.

And let's also not forget dragtons aren't the only thing it applies to.



#46
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Drakes and all sorts of banshees come to mind.

 

Also: enemy barbs with Threatening Presence. Here it's more like "Pleasant Presence". ;)


Edited by Boeroer, 25 August 2017 - 09:23 AM.


#47
Raven Darkholme

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Also Fampyr's and Doomguards, even against xaurip priests in endless paths.

Also it's pretty great combined with Aila Bracca, Llengrath paralyzed herself. :D

(Sadly it doesn't work vs piggies.)



#48
Dr <3

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Aila braccia maybe is not the best shield for defensive pourposes, but for sure have gave me the best "lolwut" moments... Reflected cleasing flame on thaos, reflected mussiles on concelhaut,... Ah good times
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#49
MasterCipher

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Brutal does a tremendous amount of damage in the aura fights, but at the same time those mobs are sitting ducks already so IMO very fun and speeds up those fights but doesn't really lower their difficulty beyond what you get with only having psychic backlash. The respec idea above has merit, but it's just not a talent I prefer to carry most of the time.


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#50
dgray62

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It seems like it's really worth it, then. The enemies affected by psychic/brutal backlash include some of the toughest in the game. I rarely get through the mobs of banshees in the lighthouse, Caed Nua, and Durgan's battery without someone getting knocked out. [Edited for grammar]


Edited by dgray62, 25 August 2017 - 01:41 PM.


#51
MaxQuest

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You obviously didn't watch Raven's video with the bog dragons vs Brutal Backlash. :)

Indeed I didn't. Had no enough trafic while on vacation.
But have checked it now. And yeap, as expected it is totally OP now)

At 30 INT, Psychic Backlash can keep enemies (with will-targeting aoes permastunned), even if Backlash just grazes.
As for damage, @26 MIG (as in video), Brutal Backslash deals:
- 23.8 raw damage on graze; or 476 per minute
- 33.8 raw damage on hit; or 676 per minute
- 43.8 raw damage on crit; or 876 per minute
 
Tbh it's too powerful...
P.S. Taking Merchant background over Laborer would give 4 more skill points in the end :p 

Edited by MaxQuest, 27 August 2017 - 03:54 AM.

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#52
Raven Darkholme

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Yeah I created another cipher now to check how good it is in Act 2 and you can definitely take normal backlash relatively early (level 6 or 8, when solo, prolly earlier with party).

If you take brutal without respeccing is up for debate in solo it seems worth it at level 10.



#53
Dr <3

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After all this chiper exploits, Now i want to try again a solo run with one...
I think i will start with a boreal dwarf, 16 str, 16 con, 16 int... I am always in doubt between con and dex... Someone have experiece about solo run with chiper?

I tried that a couple of time but i was always frustated that i was unable to use eco/ amplified wave/ body attunement so i dropped before ending. But see a dragon permastunned can be worth a new travel

#54
Raven Darkholme

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After all this chiper exploits, Now i want to try again a solo run with one...
I think i will start with a boreal dwarf, 16 str, 16 con, 16 int... I am always in doubt between con and dex... Someone have experiece about solo run with chiper?

I tried that a couple of time but i was always frustated that i was unable to use eco/ amplified wave/ body attunement so i dropped before ending. But see a dragon permastunned can be worth a new travel

I have some experience with solo cipher, most was before WM came out, tho (finished the game) and my first full pt at all, so not only a long time ago but lacking a lot of knowledge.

I then created a console cipher with max gear to beat Magran's Faithful, but that's also more than half a year ago, I recently used that cipher to test the new backlash.

Now I'm playing a regular solo run again and am rushing WM, but I can only tell you about dex once i get durgan refined.

I have 10 base dex but am using a shield, I tried dual wield for some time and you can def beat the game with it ( you don't need more than 10 dex on dual, even without durgan it's almost no recovery with alacrity) but I prefer Aila Braccia it is much better to have more deflection AND reflex, and especially in WM it is really fun to reflect ranged grazes back at Lagus. :D

 

Once I have durgan I can tell how much dex I'll need for no recovery with shield, tho I guess MaxQuest already has the answer for it, I like finding it out for myself. :)

 

(but I think 10 DEX is ok even with shield, maxing MI seems so crucial)


Edited by Raven Darkholme, 27 August 2017 - 06:34 AM.

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#55
Raven Darkholme

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I can not see a difference between 11 base dex buffed up to 20 dex with various bonuses (wearing coloured Coat which is a Brigandine with 10% less penalty than other brigandines have) and 20 base dex buffed to 29.

I attacked with bittercut and had a small shield in the offhand.

Weapon, shield and armor are durganized and I was wearing gauntlets of swift action, also use alacrity at combat start.

There is still a tiny recovery, but it is practically non existant.

 

i don't see why you would go with more base dex than 10 (I went 11 because I had one point left over, lol), looking at MaxQuests attack speed calculator even 40 dex and wearing no armor barely changes the recovery with a shield.

Dual wielding will be faster ofc but here you can reach no recovery with 10 dex and even tho this forum keeps trying I cannot see the benefit of decreasing your weapon attack animation speed, since even with a shield and some recovery the attack speed and focus gain is insane and you could kill most enemies witout ever even using your focus. :p

 

Also the buffed Silent scream is just an insane ability to spam and because of it I wonder if I should go Apprentices sneak attack instead of Spirit of Decay.

Decay is not only awesome for bittercut, but also for Antipathetic Beam, which is probably the most op level 1 ability in the game (If you feel real mean combine it with Recall Agony).

Recall Agony is also awesome with Disintegration and Soul Ignition.



#56
Dr <3

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Tkhs for your answers. As far i remember the 0 recovery worked similar between attacks and spells right?

#57
MaxQuest

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As far i remember the 0 recovery worked similar between attacks and spells right?

As if you would dual-wield, but without TwoWeapon Style talent.
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#58
hansvedic

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Sorry to necro a months-old thread, but I had a question pertaining to the v3 CC frontline cipher.

 

Specifically, what powers would you recommend for the v3 cipher?



#59
MaxQuest

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^v3 is a frontline cc'er.

I would recommend focusing on:
rank 1: Whisper of Treason (!), Tenuous Grasp, Mind Wave
rank 2: Mental Binding (!), Recall Agony, Psychovampiric Shield (~)
rank 3: Puppet Master, Fractured Volition (~), Secret Horrors (~)
rank 4: Silent Scream ®, Body Attunement (~), Going Between (~)
rank 5: Borrowed Instinct, Tactical Meld
rank 6: Amplified Wave (!), Disintegration ®
rank 7: Time Parasite ® (but also carry DAoM potions), Stasis Shell (~)
rank 8: Defensive Mindweb (~), Reaping Knives (~)

P.S. I would also recommend using Forgemaster Gloves in the early-mid game / Gauntlets of Swift Action + BotEP in the mid-late game; and also getting Shimmering Cloak.
P.P.S. Opt for 1 point in athletics, 4 or 10 in survival (for the bonus acc), and either invest in mechanics (if it's your mech guy), or lore (in this case especially take a look at scrolls of paralysis and confusion).

Edited by MaxQuest, 27 February 2018 - 02:23 AM.

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#60
MasterCipher

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Not related to the most recent question, but it's an effective micro tactic to maximize the damage from Ectopsychic Crush, which has the highest DPS potential by far of any Cipher ability. Use Going Between (fast cast) on a tank, offtank, or ranger pet to maximize the beam - he should be able to survive disengagement attacks. There are other +movement options like gear/talents/and other abilities but +3 seems to be plenty. You can also air drop a summon behind enemy lines to anchor.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Cipher, Build, Powers, DPS, CC, Crowd Control

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