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No more salvage?


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#21
Ripe

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Actually friends, there is a cap. In your collection you can have max:

 

4 Uncommon

3 Rare

2 Epic

1 Legendary

 

Everything else is automatically salvaged on the backend and a copy is just added to your unclaimed.

 

Note: Commons are cards found in the vanilla rise of the runelords and the amount of commons can't be modified and is based from the contents of the physical box.

 

The culling is actually a slow process depending on how many cards are in your collection prior to 1.2.6, but it's happening behind the scenes.

Well, that is still no good since most of the uncommon cards are not something that is worth having 4 copies of... I'd like to have 1 copy of them but no more. So my point about Treasure chests being worthless to me stand.

 

Actually, it's even worse: by removing extra cards I got and choose to keep you stole the content I PAID for!


Edited by Ripe, 21 June 2017 - 02:54 AM.

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#22
Ethics Gradient

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Does this apply to treasure cards in your collection prior to patch 1.2.6.X/Steam release/Account Merge ???

How does this new system, creation of the card pool for Adventures/Scenarios and the Stash/unclaimed interact together?

Could you please explain this in more detail?

 

 

The Treasure Cull is a new system that lives behind the scenes, and is not connected to other in-game features like the Stash or Unclaimed tab.

Every time you log in, a couple of your treasure cards are compared against the maximums, and the extras are automatically salvaged for gold.

 

When MrBishop mentioned that the cull would be a slow process, that's why.  If you have a lots of cards, it might take a hundred logins for the game to slowly go around pruning off extras.


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#23
Snarfblat

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Wow. I posted a message on the forum and sent an email to support a week ago about a huge number of random cards being missing, support told me it was being looked into, and it turns out it was actually an intentional change from the start that you didn't bother telling anyone about? Even, it appears, your own support staff?

 

Not only that, it makes chests even worse. At least you could build a big pile of good cards even if the RNG wasn't giving you anything new. Now it just turns excess copies into a pittance of gold, while a previously culled collection gets clogged with the poor cards? Essentially, if I ever open another chest there is a very good chance it would end up decreasing the chances of finding cards I want in play.

 

Oh, and checking the game it didn't even drop most of the silently culled cards into the unclaimed. Because we need a bug on top.



#24
Borissimo

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I like the idea of capping cards — it's certainly easier to have the game salvage cards for you than to manually go into your vault and delete some of those 11 Foxes or whatever.

 

I also don't mind legendaries being capped at 1, though I sympathize with players who got used to having bunches of them and are now sad.

 

The problem with this system is that 4 copies of a card is A LOT. Most uncommon cards are not that great, so with this capping system, there will be way, way more crappy cards diluting the pool than anyone who used salvaging would have ever had on mobile. The game should still let players either (1) salvage individual cards, or (2) lower the cap size for uncommon and rare cards.



#25
stbassy

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Actually friends, there is a cap. In your collection you can have max:

4 Uncommon
3 Rare
2 Epic
1 Legendary

Everything else is automatically salvaged on the backend and a copy is just added to your unclaimed.

Note: Commons are cards found in the vanilla rise of the runelords and the amount of commons can't be modified and is based from the contents of the physical box.

The culling is actually a slow process depending on how many cards are in your collection prior to 1.2.6, but it's happening behind the scenes.



This is a bit better than no salvaging at all... but still inferior to the original manual-salvage option.

More importantly though:
- any reason for not sharing this information up front?

MOST importantly:
- as far as I can tell,.... no culling has occurred on my account. If the system is delete my cards, shouldn't it send me a pop-up message, and refund some gold? If it's just deleting them without gold-compensation, I'd feel that's a bit of a rip.
- ... and.. wouldn't this break my existing games and character decks? (If they happen to be using more than the new cap. That would be.. HORRIBLE... because, not only would my existing chars/saves be broken, but I can't create a new-game without the app crashing (there is a separate post about this). Meaning: I can't play this any more.

#26
BAdler

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Hey, everyone a few things regarding the salvaging:

  • My apologies for not expressing this up front. It was something that we meant to discuss, but it fell through the cracks. That isn't a good excuse, but it is the truth. You can lay the blame on me for that one.
  • Auto-salvaging should be giving you gold as compensation. So if your collection is losing treasure cards to auto-salvaging, you should be getting some gold from it. If you feel this isn't the case, please contact support@obsidian.net and they can work with you on the issue.
  • There was always a hard cap in people's boxes even though it was never expressed in the UI. Mr Bishop can confirm, but I want to say that there was never more than three copies of any treasure card that was available in a campaign. This means, even if you had 12 Fire Sneezes, you would only ever see up to the cap in play, in any particular run.
  • Allowing salvaging of some cards (treasure cards), but not others (campaign cards) was confusing and difficult to explain.
  • New users were deleting cards from their collection without understanding that they were removing the ability to even find those cards in the future.

People that want more control of their campaign boxes will not be happy with this answer, but it was put into place to simplify the system. This answer will be a bit longer, so bear with me on this one.
 

For people that understand the rules of the physical game, adding and removing cards from the campaign box makes sense. You have a specific number of cards available in the campaign and adding or removing cards from the box allows you to adjust how many of those cards can be found while playing the game.

The problem is for people that have only played the digital version of the game. Those people have no concept of the box and it isn't something that is easily explained. Most folks didn't understand that the cards in their collection were just "potential" cards that they could find in the future. It isn't an easy thing to explain because there isn't much of an analog in most other digital card games. Most people who play these games understand the copies of cards in your collection to be the available cards you can build you deck with, but not as potential cards they can find.

I also saw a problem where people were salvaging treasure cards without understanding that that meant they would never see those cards again. They were assuming they were getting rid of a copy they had found, not the potential to ever find the card again. It was causing a large amount of confusion with newer players.

I spent a lot of time talking to people about the game and the campaign box before making this decision. It wasn't a decision I came to lightly and I feel that this is a simplification that is needed if we expect the game to grow in the future.

 

I completely understand the anger from people that want a greater control over their campaign boxes, but please understand that a main objective of mine when I got onto this project was to make the game easier to understand and more accessible to newcomers. I feel this change helps that goal at the expense of customization.

 

All of that being said, I am more than willing to work with the community to help create a system that works better for everyone. Some thoughts I had about this:

  • Maybe we could add in something into the collection that allows people to remove a specific treasure card from consideration while building a location. So, for example, if you never want to see a specific card (Engineers Workgloves, or something), you can disable it from the collection.
  • We can adjust the caps for treasure cards. If four uncommons is too much, we can lower it. If 1 legendary feels too punishing, we can raise it.

Even if you don't agree with why I asked for these changes I'm hoping you can understand why I asked for them.

Please continue sending additional feedback (unless it's telling me that I am a jackass... you can keep those).


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#27
Hannibal_PJV

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It is hard to please all peoples in here. So it is possible that there is no perfect solution. So if user can not chose that (my prefered option) that you have custom Numbers for card caps, like:
-Uncommon: x cards
-Rare: y cards
-Epic: z cards
-Legendary: q cards

Then having same cap to all rarities maybe 2 or 3 would give higher rarity cards more likely to appear to your locations compared to uncommons if you have more of those epic and legendary cards. So if you already have 3 of each commons and only 1-2 Epic or legendary, you would buy more treasure chest to get Also epic and legendary cards to the same level with uncommons and rares.
So you can somewhat affect your rnd.

The 4, 3, 2, 1 model is a logical that there Are a lot of "bad" items in the world and only few really really "good" quality item. It is more RPG type of treasure cards distribution and comparable to original Pathfinder card distribution where there Are more cards that you don't want to have in your deck than really good cards. So for that reason the new system is actually quite good. So for RPG people this is good, to deck builders and power players not so... And I am more RPG player, but info about this big changes should always be given to players.

Edited by Hannibal_PJV, 21 June 2017 - 12:30 PM.


#28
ylvglo

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I sort of see where you're coming from. At the same time I really wish this had been done differently, couldn't you have just added some text to the collection screen to explain how the collection worked and what salvaging entailed? If possible you could also have made it impossible to salvage cards you only have one copy of? I don't know, it's just I had a system and a reason for keeping the specific number of copies of each card I did.

 

 

And only one legendary is definitely too punishing. In most (if not all) cases where I have more than one copy of a legendary it's because I paid real money to buy some of the card bundles you made available during the past year. It feels extremely unfair that the Epic and Legendary Cards DLC now practically makes those purchases obsolete because I can't own more than one copy of each legendary card.


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#29
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And only one legendary is definitely too punishing. In most (if not all) cases where I have more than one copy of a legendary it's because I paid real money to buy some of the card bundles you made available during the past year. It feels extremely unfair that the Epic and Legendary Cards DLC now practically makes those purchases obsolete because I can't own more than one copy of each legendary card.


That Is true. Some people have hunted spesific legendary cards so having only one of those can be bitter to those persons!

#30
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There was always a hard cap in people's boxes even though it was never expressed in the UI. Mr Bishop can confirm, but I want to say that there was never more than three copies of any treasure card that was available in a campaign. This means, even if you had 12 Fire Sneezes, you would only ever see up to the cap in play, in any particular run.

 

 

The overall cap for parties was much more important. Since unlike normal cards you get your treasures zapped for putting too many together the extras meant you didn't need to worry as much if you happened to whip up a mix-and-match party with a Favor of Gozreh here and there if you had a bunch. Now dramatically more things will be getting randomly nuked.

 

It also means, if you have many cards, chests are a joke. When a gold border popped up it may not have been that fancy new toy you hoped, but at least it meant another Portable Ram to play around with. Now it just laughs at you and returns a tiny fraction of the gold you spent on the chest without mentioning it was doing it. Yay... way more fun and less confusing. Totally.

 

Also: you might want to tell support this happens. All I got was speculation that made it seem like yet another bug. It isn't like it would be the first time.



#31
BAdler

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And only one legendary is definitely too punishing. In most (if not all) cases where I have more than one copy of a legendary it's because I paid real money to buy some of the card bundles you made available during the past year. It feels extremely unfair that the Epic and Legendary Cards DLC now practically makes those purchases obsolete because I can't own more than one copy of each legendary card.


That Is true. Some people have hunted spesific legendary cards so having only one of those can be bitter to those persons!

 

 

That's fair. I'll discuss with the team to see about loosening the cap on Legendary and Epic cards.


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#32
BAdler

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There was always a hard cap in people's boxes even though it was never expressed in the UI. Mr Bishop can confirm, but I want to say that there was never more than three copies of any treasure card that was available in a campaign. This means, even if you had 12 Fire Sneezes, you would only ever see up to the cap in play, in any particular run.

 

 

It also means, if you have many cards, chests are a joke. When a gold border popped up it may not have been that fancy new toy you hoped, but at least it meant another Portable Ram to play around with. Now it just laughs at you and returns a tiny fraction of the gold you spent on the chest without mentioning it was doing it. Yay... way more fun and less confusing. Totally.

 

Also: you might want to tell support this happens. All I got was speculation that made it seem like yet another bug. It isn't like it would be the first time.

 

 

There is still utility in finding cards in treasure chests. With the Stash system, any card you find gets a copy added to the Unclaimed tab of the Stash. This can exceed the cap limits. What this means is that, while the Legendary won't be used in building location decks, you can still enter a game with more copies of that card in your character decks.

 

Also, the support thing. I think there was just some miscommunication regarding what people meant when they said their cards were disappearing. I know personally I dealt with some folks that mentioned this, but it was assumed that cards were disappearing from their character decks (which shouldn't be happening with this change).


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#33
Snarfblat

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There is still utility in finding cards in treasure chests. With the Stash system, any card you find gets a copy added to the Unclaimed tab of the Stash. This can exceed the cap limits. What this means is that, while the Legendary won't be used in building location decks, you can still enter a game with more copies of that card in your character decks.

 

I don't understand this. For example Lem had a full set of Favors of Shelyn and all but two were deleted from him when they were silently deleted from my collection. Are you telling me that if I find more Favors of Shelyn in chests I can add them to him and they won't be deleted? Is it somehow only if I find them in chests, or find them in-game on other characters? Or I can't have more than two on a character, but if I accidentally put Lem and a Merisiel with one together it won't delete hers?

 

Also, the support thing. I think there was just some miscommunication regarding what people meant when they said their cards were disappearing. I know personally I dealt with some folks that mentioned this, but it was assumed that cards were disappearing from their character decks (which shouldn't be happening with this change).

 

I explained they were missing and gave a list from the B deck blessings, which I think was quite claer. They told me:

 

>I will have to get back to you on this (I think most of the programmers are under their desks rocking back and forth), BUT it might have been an auto-salvage type of thing where if you had more than a certain number of cards it gave you gold in return.

 

>Again, I am not sure on that and will get back to you but I wanted to let you know I'm looking into it.

 

Which I took to mean it might have been a bug, as the idea a fundamental change like this would be implemented without a word was so ridiculous, a bunch of other cards still existed in higher numbers than the ones that were randomly deleted, and that it isn't like it would be the first time you've accidentally nuked random content from people. Also, for an intended change, waiting a week with "I'll get back to you" when a simple "working as intended" would end the issue is just pathetic.

 

One bit or another wouldn't bother me so much, but combined with months of absolute silence, piles of bugs, and not mentioning the GoG release was indefinitely delayed until launch day the whole project seems like a circus of errors.


Edited by Snarfblat, 21 June 2017 - 12:49 PM.


#34
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There is still utility in finding cards in treasure chests. With the Stash system, any card you find gets a copy added to the Unclaimed tab of the Stash. This can exceed the cap limits. What this means is that, while the Legendary won't be used in building location decks, you can still enter a game with more copies of that card in your character decks.

 

I don't understand this. For example Lem had a full set of Favors of Shelyn and all but two were deleted from him when they were silently deleted from my collection. Are you telling me that if I find more Favors of Shelyn in chests I can add them to him and they won't be deleted? Is it somehow only if I find them in chests, or find them in-game on other characters? Or I can't have more than two on a character, but if I accidentally put Lem and a Merisiel with one together it won't delete hers?

 

Also, the support thing. I think there was just some miscommunication regarding what people meant when they said their cards were disappearing. I know personally I dealt with some folks that mentioned this, but it was assumed that cards were disappearing from their character decks (which shouldn't be happening with this change).

 

I explained they were missing and gave a list from the B deck blessings, which I think was quite claer. They told me:

 

>I will have to get back to you on this (I think most of the programmers are under their desks rocking back and forth), BUT it might have been an auto-salvage type of thing where if you had more than a certain number of cards it gave you gold in return.

 

>Again, I am not sure on that and will get back to you but I wanted to let you know I'm looking into it.

 

Which I took to mean it might have been a bug, as the idea a fundamental change like this would be implemented without a word was so ridiculous, a bunch of other cards still existed in higher numbers than the ones that were randomly deleted, and that it isn't like it would be the first time you've accidentally nuked random content from people. Also, for an intended change, waiting a week with "I'll get back to you" when a simple "working as intended" would end the issue is just pathetic.

 

One bit or another wouldn't bother me so much, but combined with months of absolute silence, piles of bugs, and not mentioning the GoG release was indefinitely delayed until launch day the whole project seems like a circus of errors.

 

 

I'll have to ask Mr. Bishop, but cards were never supposed to be deleted from existing decks. It should only affect building new locations (where, if the number of cards in circulation for that game equals or exceeds the cap, the locations won't contain that card). This sounds like a bug.



#35
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I'll have to ask Mr. Bishop, but cards were never supposed to be deleted from existing decks. It should only affect building new locations (where, if the number of cards in circulation for that game equals or exceeds the cap, the locations won't contain that card). This sounds like a bug.

 

 

I just checked with Mr. Bishop. The game should not be removing cards from character decks. If you are seeing cards disappearing from your decks you are hitting some sort of issue. I'm asking support, QA, and programming to dig deeper into this, but it might be difficult depending on reproducability. At the very least we can look into your PlayFab account to see if there is anything noticeably wrong in there.



#36
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There is still utility in finding cards in treasure chests. With the Stash system, any card you find gets a copy added to the Unclaimed tab of the Stash. This can exceed the cap limits. What this means is that, while the Legendary won't be used in building location decks, you can still enter a game with more copies of that card in your character decks.

 

I don't understand this. For example Lem had a full set of Favors of Shelyn and all but two were deleted from him when they were silently deleted from my collection. Are you telling me that if I find more Favors of Shelyn in chests I can add them to him and they won't be deleted? Is it somehow only if I find them in chests, or find them in-game on other characters? Or I can't have more than two on a character, but if I accidentally put Lem and a Merisiel with one together it won't delete hers?

 

Also, the support thing. I think there was just some miscommunication regarding what people meant when they said their cards were disappearing. I know personally I dealt with some folks that mentioned this, but it was assumed that cards were disappearing from their character decks (which shouldn't be happening with this change).

 

I explained they were missing and gave a list from the B deck blessings, which I think was quite claer. They told me:

 

>I will have to get back to you on this (I think most of the programmers are under their desks rocking back and forth), BUT it might have been an auto-salvage type of thing where if you had more than a certain number of cards it gave you gold in return.

 

>Again, I am not sure on that and will get back to you but I wanted to let you know I'm looking into it.

 

Which I took to mean it might have been a bug, as the idea a fundamental change like this would be implemented without a word was so ridiculous, a bunch of other cards still existed in higher numbers than the ones that were randomly deleted, and that it isn't like it would be the first time you've accidentally nuked random content from people. Also, for an intended change, waiting a week with "I'll get back to you" when a simple "working as intended" would end the issue is just pathetic.

 

One bit or another wouldn't bother me so much, but combined with months of absolute silence, piles of bugs, and not mentioning the GoG release was indefinitely delayed until launch day the whole project seems like a circus of errors.

 

 

 

Hi Snarfblat,

 

Character decks being edited in anyway IS a bug and any changes to the collection should not affect character decks. Please pm me your PFID and I'll try to find the source of the issue.



#37
Dunesparrow

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Thank you for the explanation Badler.

I am disappointed that this change has occurred.

What is the expected time frame for the back end Salvaging to complete?
Does the back end Salvaging only occur while The Game is running and I am logged in?
How many times will I have to log in?
How does the System choose which cards will get salvaged?

Currently when I start a new party, go to manage deck and select the 'my collection' tab, B Deck 'basic' treasure cards, that are in my collection do not appear. Is this because they have not been auto-salvaged by the system? As such is the new system restricting my access to the cards in my collection?

#38
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Thank you folks very much for looking into it. Sorry for being a bit cross, honestly losing cards from the character decks alone really isn't that big a deal for me and if I'd known the situation from the start it is so minor I wouldn't even have bothered Support about it. It is much moreso thinking I was patiently waiting for what I'd interpreted as a bug to be investigated only to chance upon a forum post saying the part that concerned me was mostly intended behavior.

 

I really do love the game, that is why I've stuck with it even through the troubled bits. It would just be nice to have better communication, you know? It would go a long way to avoiding so many things.



#39
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Thank you for the explanation Badler.

I am disappointed that this change has occurred.

What is the expected time frame for the back end Salvaging to complete?
Does the back end Salvaging only occur while The Game is running and I am logged in?
How many times will I have to log in?
How does the System choose which cards will get salvaged?

Currently when I start a new party, go to manage deck and select the 'my collection' tab, B Deck 'basic' treasure cards, that are in my collection do not appear. Is this because they have not been auto-salvaged by the system? As such is the new system restricting my access to the cards in my collection?

 

You should not have access to your B Deck treasure cards restricted. It sounds like something else is going on. I'll pass to programming and QA.

 

As for your other questions, Mr. Bishop can answer those.


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#40
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Thank you folks very much for looking into it. Sorry for being a bit cross, honestly losing cards from the character decks alone really isn't that big a deal for me and if I'd known the situation from the start it is so minor I wouldn't even have bothered Support about it. It is much moreso thinking I was patiently waiting for what I'd interpreted as a bug to be investigated only to chance upon a forum post saying the part that concerned me was mostly intended behavior.

 

I really do love the game, that is why I've stuck with it even through the troubled bits. It would just be nice to have better communication, you know? It would go a long way to avoiding so many things.

 

No need to apologize. We (me, really) dropped the ball in talking to you guys about the change.

 

We have a few people looking into the problem right now so I'm hoping that we can have an answer for you soonish.






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