Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Help with optimal frontline late game itemization/build


  • Please log in to reply
99 replies to this topic

#81
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 7420 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Depends what you want to do. If you want to kite it's better. :)

 

If you want to stand your ground then not.

 


Edited by Boeroer, 28 September 2017 - 12:05 PM.

  • Lampros likes this

#82
Lampros

Lampros

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 670 posts

Depends what you want to do. If you want to kite it's better. :)

 

If you want to stand your ground then not.

 

 

I prefer to stand my ground, but are there fights in the game where I am better off kiting when I have 4 melees?



#83
Torm51

Torm51

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1341 posts
  • Location:Darcozzi Outpost somewhere in Eora
  • Steam:extol51
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
Against a Xaurip no. Against a Dragon whose got a base breath damage of like 250. Having 30 DR instead of 27 isn't going to do much. The hit to graze is nice but it's RNG.

Out running the range of breathe and buffing up while the slow dragon and his buddies chases is better. I rather just not get hit. Charge does that.

Edited by Torm51, 28 September 2017 - 01:51 PM.

  • Lampros likes this

#84
Torm51

Torm51

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1341 posts
  • Location:Darcozzi Outpost somewhere in Eora
  • Steam:extol51
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
face tanking a dragon on PoTD can be done but it's a bit luck. If you get interrupted and don't get a buff off you are done. I rather kite buff up and then charge head first.

Edited by Torm51, 28 September 2017 - 01:54 PM.

  • Lampros likes this

#85
Torm51

Torm51

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1341 posts
  • Location:Darcozzi Outpost somewhere in Eora
  • Steam:extol51
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Depends what you want to do. If you want to kite it's better. :)

If you want to stand your ground then not.

I prefer to stand my ground, but are there fights in the game where I am better off kiting when I have 4 melees?
The Adra Dragon Wing Slams. If you are going to run there with 4 melee you better have him controlled. Either mind controlled or prone. If not he will wing slam and breath all 4 melee and you won't last long.

The Alpine Dragon is safer the only AOE he has is a Wing Buffet that does cold damage in a cone and blinds. He does better single target DPS though as he's a ROGUE and has sneak attack, duel wields his claws and Deathblows. One of two knockouts I had in my last run was kana gettig blinded and something else and taking a death blow swipe for 450.

Edited by Torm51, 28 September 2017 - 01:58 PM.

  • Lampros likes this

#86
Lampros

Lampros

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 670 posts

Against a Xaurip no. Against a Dragon whose got a base breath damage of like 250. Having 30 DR instead of 27 isn't going to do much. The hit to graze is nice but it's RNG.

Out running the range of breathe and buffing up while the slow dragon and his buddies chases is better. I rather just not get hit. Charge does that.

 

Wait; do you mean the Paladin Aura (Zealous Charge) or the Fighter ability (Charge) here?

 

By the way, I forgot about this: I watched a MaxQuest video earlier, and he was using a Chanter's speed Phrase. So if I am going to have a Chanter, then is Zealous Charge necessary at all?

 

 

face tanking a dragon on PoTD can be done but it's a bit luck. If you get interrupted and don't get a buff off you are done. I rather kite buff up and then charge head first.

 

Can't you buff up/prepare first and then take him on if you lie to the Adra Dragon?



#87
Torm51

Torm51

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1341 posts
  • Location:Darcozzi Outpost somewhere in Eora
  • Steam:extol51
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

 

Against a Xaurip no. Against a Dragon whose got a base breath damage of like 250. Having 30 DR instead of 27 isn't going to do much. The hit to graze is nice but it's RNG.

Out running the range of breathe and buffing up while the slow dragon and his buddies chases is better. I rather just not get hit. Charge does that.

 

Wait; do you mean the Paladin Aura (Zealous Charge) or the Fighter ability (Charge) here?

 

By the way, I forgot about this: I watched a MaxQuest video earlier, and he was using a Chanter's speed Phrase. So if I am going to have a Chanter, then is Zealous Charge necessary at all?

 

 

face tanking a dragon on PoTD can be done but it's a bit luck. If you get interrupted and don't get a buff off you are done. I rather kite buff up and then charge head first.

 

Can't you buff up/prepare first and then take him on if you lie to the Adra Dragon?

 

Zealous Charge Aura not the fighter ability.  If you have the chanter run buff I would not take Zealous Charge.  They do not stack.  You can only buff with food before combat.  I am talking serious buffs like Devotions of the Faithful, Scrolls of Defense,  Llengraths Displaced Image potions etc.

 

You can face tank just make sure the dragon is controlled or you are very buffed.


  • Lampros likes this

#88
Lampros

Lampros

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 670 posts

 

 

Against a Xaurip no. Against a Dragon whose got a base breath damage of like 250. Having 30 DR instead of 27 isn't going to do much. The hit to graze is nice but it's RNG.

Out running the range of breathe and buffing up while the slow dragon and his buddies chases is better. I rather just not get hit. Charge does that.

 

Wait; do you mean the Paladin Aura (Zealous Charge) or the Fighter ability (Charge) here?

 

By the way, I forgot about this: I watched a MaxQuest video earlier, and he was using a Chanter's speed Phrase. So if I am going to have a Chanter, then is Zealous Charge necessary at all?

 

 

face tanking a dragon on PoTD can be done but it's a bit luck. If you get interrupted and don't get a buff off you are done. I rather kite buff up and then charge head first.

 

Can't you buff up/prepare first and then take him on if you lie to the Adra Dragon?

 

Zealous Charge Aura not the fighter ability.  If you have the chanter run buff I would not take Zealous Charge.  They do not stack.  You can only buff with food before combat.  I am talking serious buffs like Devotions of the Faithful, Scrolls of Defense,  Llengraths Displaced Image potions etc.

 

You can face tank just make sure the dragon is controlled or you are very buffed.

 

 

Just two more stupid newb questions while you are around:

 

1. You can have Zealous Focus and Zealous Endurance, if you have two Paladins, correct?

 

2. If a Chanter is doing anything other than auto-attack, his Phrases get interrupted, correct? So I should not - if possible - cast spells, scrolls, or use figurines if I don't want my Phrases interrupted?



#89
Torm51

Torm51

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1341 posts
  • Location:Darcozzi Outpost somewhere in Eora
  • Steam:extol51
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
1. Yes you can

2. 99.9% that is correct.
  • Lampros likes this

#90
Lampros

Lampros

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 670 posts

1. Yes you can

2. 99.9% that is correct.

 

Awesome - thanks as usual!


  • Torm51 likes this

#91
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 7420 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
Afaik Chanter's singing only stops when he's stunned, paralyzed or petrified or when he uses invocations.

Edited by Boeroer, 28 September 2017 - 07:22 PM.

  • Lampros likes this

#92
Lampros

Lampros

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 670 posts

Afaik Chanter's singing only stops when he's stunned, paralyzed or petrified or when he uses invocations.

 

Hmmm, I better test to make sure.

 

Or perhaps MaxQuest can just answer? ;)



#93
Lampros

Lampros

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 670 posts

By the way, Boerer (or anyone):

 

Is dual wielding swords on a DPS/off-tank Paladin a stupid idea? The reason I ask is that I really really want to use Shame or Glory on one hand, because of the Marking bonus. Is there any way to make this set-up work? That is, I want to dual wield, do decent damage, and yet still be able to grant a Marking bonus on my mates. And what combination of level-up Abilities/Talents and off-hand weapon will make this work?

 

If there simply is not another sword to make this combination with a Shame or Glory worthwhile, I guess I am even willing to take a second Weapon Focus - since I have 2 Paladins anyways. But of course I still do not want to invest in 2 Weapon Focuses, if I can help it.

 

Edit: Given how the sword is such an iconic weapon in most societies and in the fantasy genre, I am really disappointed by the sword selection in this game relative to other weapons. Ugh.

 

Edit 2: I only see two other worthwhile end-game swords possibly on Gamespedia? Sheathed in Autumn and Last Blade of the White Forge? Or do folks think Whispers of Yenwood and Cat's Claw can be considered in the mix as well?


Edited by Lampros, 29 September 2017 - 06:27 AM.


#94
Torm51

Torm51

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1341 posts
  • Location:Darcozzi Outpost somewhere in Eora
  • Steam:extol51
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

If you get the Wax Mold from the adventure Stronghold quests you can make two Shame or Glories and stack marking.  Your DPS will be ok but that wouldn't be your purpose with those two swords your main goal would be to be a super marker.  Alternatively, you could grab Caladath or whatever its called if you say the right things in the quest it will have a marking enchant.  Although yes DW a sword and spear looks wonky.

 

On your comment about the lack of good one handed swords its the class and the way DR works not the swords.  A rogue or DW fighter could make one handed swords hit very hard.  Obsidian went the route of Dungeon and Dragons Warlord type for the Paladin in this game. It is a leader class that supports and has some damage dealing ability but its not the focus.  Therefore you do not get weapon damage stacking abilities in order to over come high DR.  You do however get Flames of Devotion (this games version of Smite) that is an Alpha Strike.  Also your DPS shoots through the roof with Sacred Immolation. 

 

I think of it this way.  It is a fantasy setting in a LATE medieval Early /Renaissance era.  With the invention of firearms and rising importance in ranged weaponry Paladins (the way they are describes in this game) would absolutely start using those weapons to their advantage.  So the ranged smite makes sense.  It isn't the "classic" D and D Paladin.  He/she is a Leader.  An NCO or Officer of a fighting company and those type of people are usually intelligent or savvy individuals. 


Edited by Torm51, 29 September 2017 - 06:53 AM.

  • Lampros likes this

#95
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 7420 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
Sure,why not use two swords - or sword and battle axe (if that's no aesthetical problem for you)?

No problems with that. Swords have two damage types and that's good. As Torm said, you can also stack marking. That only works when dual wielding. The Marking of two different chars doesn't stack.

The only early unique swords are Shame & G. and Whispers of Yenwood, but later on you can get some decent ones, especially in act III. Or you can use the Unlabored Blade or Steadfast. Both work with any weapon focus.
  • Torm51 and Lampros like this

#96
Lampros

Lampros

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 670 posts

If you get the Wax Mold from the adventure Stronghold quests you can make two Shame or Glories and stack marking.  Your DPS will be ok but that wouldn't be your purpose with those two swords your main goal would be to be a super marker.  Alternatively, you could grab Caladath or whatever its called if you say the right things in the quest it will have a marking enchant.  Although yes DW a sword and spear looks wonky.

 

On your comment about the lack of good one handed swords its the class and the way DR works not the swords.  A rogue or DW fighter could make one handed swords hit very hard.  Obsidian went the route of Dungeon and Dragons Warlord type for the Paladin in this game. It is a leader class that supports and has some damage dealing ability but its not the focus.  Therefore you do not get weapon damage stacking abilities in order to over come high DR.  You do however get Flames of Devotion (this games version of Smite) that is an Alpha Strike.  Also your DPS shoots through the roof with Sacred Immolation. 

 

I think of it this way.  It is a fantasy setting in a LATE medieval Early /Renaissance era.  With the invention of firearms and rising importance in ranged weaponry Paladins (the way they are describes in this game) would absolutely start using those weapons to their advantage.  So the ranged smite makes sense.  It isn't the "classic" D and D Paladin.  He/she is a Leader.  An NCO or Officer of a fighting company and those type of people are usually intelligent or savvy individuals. 

 

I did not know Marks stack. But Helwax does seem a bit wasted on Shame or Glory. And definitely no dual wielding with spear - a total immersion/aesthetic nightmare! ;)

 

I think I am inclining a lot more toward using a gun switch set-up at least on one Paladin though - as I mentioned in the other thread. My 4 melee group will be very sturdy, but there will be some fights where I am facing a lot of enemy ranged and will require heavy ranged alpha strike power.

 

 

Sure,why not use two swords - or sword and battle axe (if that's no aesthetical problem for you)?

No problems with that. Swords have two damage types and that's good. As Torm said, you can also stack marking. That only works when dual wielding. The Marking of two different chars doesn't stack.

The only early unique swords are Shame & G. and Whispers of Yenwood, but later on you can get some decent ones, especially in act III. Or you can use the Unlabored Blade or Steadfast. Both work with any weapon focus.

 

I am okay with dual wielding a sword and battle axe. I even forgot that they are in the same Weapon Focus group! Thanks for reminding me. The issue with a battle axe is single damage type though. Is there any that you would particularly recommend with Shame or Glory?

 

And if you were to recommend the one sword to pair with Shame or Glory for a dual wield Paladin, what would it be?


Edited by Lampros, 29 September 2017 - 09:04 AM.


#97
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 7420 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
The Last Blade of the White Forge - because it has speed.

Sheathed in Autumn is a nice weapon that comes with superb and looks good with Shame or Glory- but it already has a freezing lash which is kind of a bummer for paladins who also take Scion of Flame.

Cat's Claw is ok because of rending but nothing too fancy.

I totally like the look of the Darcozzi Paladini's Longsword of In'claene. It looks like the little brother of the Redeemer. Unfortunately it does nothing special...
  • Lampros likes this

#98
Lampros

Lampros

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 670 posts

The Last Blade of the White Forge - because it has speed.

Sheathed in Autumn is a nice weapon that comes with superb and looks good with Shame or Glory- but it already has a freezing lash which is kind of a bummer for paladins who also take Scion of Flame.

Cat's Claw is ok because of rending but nothing too fancy.

I totally like the look of the Darcozzi Paladini's Longsword of In'claene. It looks like the little brother of the Redeemer. Unfortunately it does nothing special...

 

Thanks! I think I will ultimately use Shame or Glory/Last Blade combination. I agree that Sheathed in Autumn is attractive-looking (and it has a Superb enchant), but the Freezing enchant turns me off it as well.

 

I guess ultimately Helwax is still an option for Shame or Glory, but I'd really like to use it on something else. Perhaps even Shod-in-Faith - as I think having two of these on the front-line will surely let me play a bit more aggressively with both the Paladin and the Fighter.


Edited by Lampros, 29 September 2017 - 10:11 AM.


#99
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 7420 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Consecrated Ground's healing is nice in the early to mid game. But in the late game it's a bit weak.



#100
Blades of Vanatar

Blades of Vanatar

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 664 posts
  • Location:Khatovar
Sword and Mace or Sword and Flail look good. Lots of options there. I like Ravenwing as it hard in the early game and is easy to acquire. Plus it looks Badass! Unforgiven is nice as well.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users