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Thaos has not all cups in the cupboard. Neither has Llengrath. Maybe it's not healthy to do that? Same with genetics. It's one thing trying to eliminate genetic errors and a totally different thing trying to reengineer the genetic code to prevent the body from dying (Besides: We are to many humans already). Believing in science does not mean you have to do everything that seems possible.

 

At times like these I always think about the first guy to eat a blue cheese. What was he thinking? Maybe it's not healthy, it is clearly rotten. Or the first guy to be launched into space, such danger and many unknowns, clearly a mad-man. Pushing the limits has always been the aim of all progress and civilization development. There is no answer yet, is it healthy or unhealthy, so I guess the inhabitants of Eora will have to check it out by means of animancy. Your arguments are invalid in a serious no-internet-meme way.

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It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...

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At times like these I always think about the first guy to eat a blue cheese. What was he thinking? Maybe it's not healthy, it is clearly rotten. Or the first guy to be launched into space, such danger and many unknowns, clearly a mad-man. Pushing the limits has always been the aim of all progress and civilization development. There is no answer yet, is it healthy or unhealthy, so I guess the inhabitants of Eora will have to check it out by means of animancy. Your arguments are invalid in a serious no-internet-meme way.

 

At times like these I always think about the first guy to eat poisonous berries. What was he thinking? Maybe it's tasty, it is bright red.

 

Or the guy almost freezing himself to death to find something against hypothermia. Not to mention the guys freezing others to death for the same reason.

 

Or countless cruel and unneccessary social behaviour experiments on children.

 

Or Edison killing an elephant just to prove a point.

 

My argument is: What is the point in doing it? We tell ourselves, we do those things in case we find something useful. But in fact we do them, just because we can. "Pushing the limits" has nothing to do with real science. It is only a justification for unprofessional and in most cases unethical behaviour.

Edited by Lord_Mord
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At times like these I always think about the first guy to eat poisonous berries. What was he thinking? Maybe it's tasty, it is bright red.

 

(...)

 

My argument is: What is the point in doing it? We tell ourselves, we do those things in case we find something useful. But in fact we do them, just because we can. "Pushing the limits" has nothing to do with real science. It is only a justification for unprofessional and in most cases unethical behaviour.

 

So now others know not to eat it.

 

We wouldn't be here where we are now if it weren't for all this you are against. The real issue here are ethics, which experiments are ok to conduct, and which are not. If some bloke wants to test something on himself, go ahead, but if he forces his way on somebody else that is a no-go.

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It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...

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wrong. wrong. wrong.

 

is from "Update #71: The Heavy Hitters: Rogues and Rangers."

 

poe rogues is a combat class.  is "shock troops." is heavy hitters. is embracing a vicious, brutal fighting style. etc. so, eder or ydwin? tell us again how ydwin makes more sense as a heavy hitter shock trooper. 

 

as for edwin nostalgia and belief ydwin will replace him based on micro-blurb character description, am thinking you shouldn't hold your breath.  the deadfire writers, who were poe writers, don't seem to be aiming for cartoony pastiche. not only do we see an intentional avoidance o' simplistic moral pigeonholing o' companions, but am suspecting the last thing the obsidian folks want is for a deadfire companion to be an obvious stand-in for a bg/bg2 joinable npc. so cliché edwin's evil is unlikely and an overt edwin clone is even more unlikely.

 

promancers need an elf female? not even gonna respond to such.

First thing, I am saying why people like her in my opinion.  Not why I like her character.  For me it all about the fact that finally, we have a potential party member who is actually an animancer and may have more motivation for supporting animancy than.... "Well in Valia we study all sciences because we are more intelligent than you."

 

As for Rogue, they say all that in this ancient update you dredged but that I am well aware of.  I also know Eder (or was it Adair?) was originally a Fighter, changed to Rogue, than back to Fighter.

 

Here is the cold hard truth though.  What is the one rogue you get in Eternity?  Devil of Caroc.  What is Devil of Caroc?  A murderer who goes from town to town slitting peoples throats and burning down their houses.  A classic murder stab stab rogue who happens to be a robot sort of.

 

You can't say "rogues are this and that" and then release the only rogue companion in game with a background that is totally different from a "front line shock trooper" and expect people to hold to the definition you originally claimed.  It doesn't help that their bonus skills are in .... mechanics, and half their skills involve turning invisible, or breaking engagement.

 

So you can claim they are whatever you want, but when you make them mechanically similar to a traditional D&D rogue, people will treat them as traditional rogues.

 

Also I bet you a lot of min maxers will argue that Rangers are about as heavy hitter as a limp string pasta is.

 

Edwin wise, I don't like him, never did.  He is a bloody stain on the cobbles in my BG saves.  Doesn't change the fact that many people interpreted her blurb this way.

 

 

karkarov conflating character with class.  a murderous cutthroat who burns down homes were not a class in poe... or d&d for that matter (though am gonna admit d&d assassin prestige class would fit.)  any class in poe could be a psychopath bent 'pon revenge and bloodshed. from a practical pov, devil, in poe, were very much a shock trooper with her brutal fighting style and high visibility armoured form.  put the biggest and most damaging weapon one could find into her hands and let her indulge her bloodthirst on the battlefield. 

 

conflate character with class is part o' the problem.  lugging 'round d&d and previous crpg baggage is part o' the problem.  from beginning, more than a few folks warned obsidian 'bout naming nomenclature o' classes.  a d&d rogue, particular in later editions, clear didn't make, "A murderer who goes from town to town slitting peoples throats and burning down their houses," innate rogue qualities. nevertheless, the name "rogue," in spite o' attempts by wizards o' the coast and obsidian to distance the class from the "classic murder stab stab" idea karkarov has in his head, is implied, at the least, by the name itself. is a predictable mistake... still a mistake.

 

regardless, little ydwin, with her rapier and glasses and mini skirt, doesn't yell "shock trooper" to Gromnir.  eder and devil?  well, sure, but ydwin is a definite fail on matching obsidian's rogue, at least so far.

 

as to mechanics skill, you are preaching to the choir.  in the update we quoted, the mechanics skill explanation for rogue appears to be more a battlefield traps kinda rationalization... kinda like a modern marine recognizing the function and dangers o' mines n' such.  even so, we has observed multiple times, and in multiple threads, how the class-based skills is utter wonky and busted and work in opposition o' the s'posed goal o' greater customization opportunities.  

 

regardless, don't confuse character with class.  big mistake.

 

as an aside, the min-maxers will point out how rangers is indeed heavy hitters... if only finally, after numerous releases.  is arguable rogues ain't deserving such a title given how other classes can approach same potential dps w/o being so squishy, but such is a multi-layered problem o' mechanics and is also a "relative" issue and is genuine only a real factor from the pov o' the serious build monkeys.  regardless, will no doubt be the goal o' obsidian to return to the espoused goal o' heavy-hitter for both classes as such were their raison d'etre.  is no reason to have either class in deadfire less they fulfill a role, and role were dps heavy hitters... not murderous arsonists. as such, use poe design fails, the correcting o'  which will be a goal o' obsidian to correct, might not be best argument when speaking o' deadfire rogue identity.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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Thaos has not all cups in the cupboard. Neither has Llengrath. Maybe it's not healthy to do that? Same with genetics. It's one thing trying to eliminate genetic errors and a totally different thing trying to reengineer the genetic code to prevent the body from dying (Besides: We are to many humans already). Believing in science does not mean you have to do everything that seems possible.

 

Well, Thaos is cursed with the ability to be reborn with all his past memories and the ability to jump from body to body.

 

Llengrath seems to be more of a title bestowed on someone who was taught all the secrets of Llengraths magic. I'm not entirely clear on how the whole transfer works, whether it's akin to the Sith Lord thing of master and apprentice and the apprentice takes the title of Sith Lord when the master dies (for whatever reason) or some sort of telepathic transfer of knowledge. Though as for Llengrath 'being a few cups short of a full cupboard', I'd be paranoid too if I had the secrets of the original Llengrath and the knowledge gained by his successors rattling around in my head since all kinds of people, bad and good, would want that knowledge.

 

So, yeah, both are different sorts of immortality.

 

 

 

 

At times like these I always think about the first guy to eat poisonous berries. What was he thinking? Maybe it's tasty, it is bright red.

 

(...)

 

My argument is: What is the point in doing it? We tell ourselves, we do those things in case we find something useful. But in fact we do them, just because we can. "Pushing the limits" has nothing to do with real science. It is only a justification for unprofessional and in most cases unethical behaviour.

 

So now others know not to eat it.

 

We wouldn't be here where we are now if it weren't for all this you are against. The real issue here are ethics, which experiments are ok to conduct, and which are not. If some bloke wants to test something on himself, go ahead, but if he forces his way on somebody else that is a no-go.

 

 

Thing is that they haven't reached the level of science ethics that we have now. It took a long while and a lot of debate to reach our current standards of ethics. As far as I know, there isn't any sort of single influential school in Eora that has set or any commonly agreed on ethics which animancers follow, let alone enforcement. The sanitarium and it's headman do have their ethics, but their influence doesn't seem to extend beyond the city.

Edited by smjjames

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If I'm not mistake, Llengrath doesn't just bestow the title onto another but literally transmits the knowledge and 'essence' onto their successor. That's actually pretty interesting because I for one can see Karkarov's point but am absolutely against it because I see the finality of human life and the birth of new generations as a key factor that enables progress and innovation. New people with new individual perspectives bring forth change, and to merely have each consciousness extend permanently the way Thaos does would inevitably lead to stagnation (and Thaos is nothing if not an agent of cultural stagnation). Llengrath's argument for their own method compared to Concelhaut's is along these lines too: a new generation with Llengrath's knowledge can update and innovate in the craft, whereas Concelhaut's methods allow for no such change or expansion. Llengrath's case is pretty interesting inasmuch as they propose a compromise between both extremes by allowing the knowledge to live on but be handled and expanded by new and younger generations instead.

Edited by algroth

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If I'm not mistake, Llengrath doesn't just bestow the title onto another but literally transmits the knowledge and 'essence' onto their successor. That's actually pretty interesting because I for one can see Karkarov's point but am absolutely against it because I see the finality of human life and the birth of new generations as a key factor that enables progress and innovation. New people with new individual perspectives bring forth change, and to merely have each consciousness extend permanently the way Thaos does would inevitably lead to stagnation (and Thaos is nothing if not an agent of cultural stagnation). Llengrath's argument for their own method compared to Concelhaut's is along these lines too: a new generation with Llengrath's knowledge can update and innovate in the craft, whereas Concelhaut's methods allow for no such change or expansion. Llengrath's case is pretty interesting inasmuch as they propose a compromise between both extremes by allowing the knowledge to live on but be handled and expanded by new and younger generations instead.

 

Yeah, I wasn't sure what exactly the method was. Sort of sounds like a Vulcan mindmeld or something.

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At times like these I always think about the first guy to eat a blue cheese. What was he thinking? Maybe it's not healthy, it is clearly rotten. Or the first guy to be launched into space, such danger and many unknowns, clearly a mad-man. Pushing the limits has always been the aim of all progress and civilization development. There is no answer yet, is it healthy or unhealthy, so I guess the inhabitants of Eora will have to check it out by means of animancy. Your arguments are invalid in a serious no-internet-meme way.

 

At times like these I always think about the first guy to eat poisonous berries. What was he thinking? Maybe it's tasty, it is bright red.

 

She was hungry; near starvation, and at risk of dying that winter. Game had been scarce that year and the tribe was suffering from disease when they finally reached the red berry lands to the south. They were desperate and willing to try anything to survive. The survivors drew straws -- she came up with the short stalk and so she tentatively nibbled one of the berries. The woman turned pale, her gut wretched, and finally, several painful hours later, she passed away. But the rest of the tribe survived because they avoided the red berries thenceforth.

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"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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You never see an animancer who's trying to do something ethical succeed. Persumably those people must exist, but they're never given any screen time.

 

Maybe that is because it's not possible. Maybe all animancy can achieve is transferring souls?

 

Thaos has not all cups in the cupboard. Neither has Llengrath. Maybe it's not healthy to do that?

Did you play Eternity?

 

The reason so many Animancers fail at their experiments is this little known thing called the Leaden Key, whose number one goal is literally to prevent the study and advancement of animancy.  There is an entire subplot about this where you find out Thaos undermined someones research to make it look like he was a crackpot, and prevent him from achieving his goals.  If it was impossible for his goals to be realized, then why did Thaos go through all the trouble to stop him?   Walking away and doing nothing would have gotten the same result.

 

There is also that White March subplot about how the Gods choose to destroy a civilization because it's study of animancy had gone too far and become too advanced???

 

It is blatantly obvious the things I mentioned in game CAN be done.  Thaos and Llengrath are also both perfectly sane.  Llengrath just happens to be a loner who wants nothing to do with the rest of the world, and Thaos is a scum bag who actively acts against the advancement of society.  There are other examples like the Ovates of the Golden Grove with their animancy based extreme long life spans, and they seem to be productive members of society.

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regardless, don't confuse character with class.  big mistake.

Who is the bigger fool?

 

The person who compares a class to how it is being portrayed, even if it is a long standing known trope, and ignores the description of the class?  Or the person who swears up and down that no, this class is totally not that, but has no examples of the class ever being portrayed the way it is described?

 

You can call Eternity Rogues heavy hitting shock troopers all day long.  There is no in game example of them being this.  The overwhelming majority of the characters with the Rogue class in the game are members of the Doemenal criminal family, "skirmisher" enemies wearing light armor and vanishing during combat, and or are downright thieves.  They are never portrayed as heavy armor wearing "shock troopers". 

 

You can make a custom character and play them that way, but that's the player.  You could do that with a Wizard if you wanted to.  There is no IN GAME example of that, and even if there were, they are vastly out numbered by the "trope" examples in game.

 

Yes, you can argue Devil, but Devil is not a person who chooses to wear heavy armor.  She is a robot made of metal, she has no choice, thus the example doesn't hold water.

Edited by Karkarov

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There is also that White March subplot about how the Gods choose to destroy a civilization because it's study of animancy had gone too far and become too advanced???

 

I don't recall that subplot ever involving the Engwithians dabbling in animancy. From memory, it was more or less Ondra deciding that this civilizations time had come (talk about the creations turning on their creator(s)) and that some things needed to be forgotten and lost to time. She then called down a moon which was basically a giant asteroid. There was also this pact that the gods had agreed on together to not intervene directly in mortal affairs because the last time they did so, things went pear shaped, not sure if this pact was made before or after the event.  Abydon (in Greek titan form) had other ideas and flaunted that, he used his giant hammer to shatter said falling moon and sacrificed himself.

 

There was also apparently a love affair between the two. The Eoran pantheon wouldn't look too out of place in the Greek pantheon since the gods and goddesses themselves have definite personalities and at times, seem almost human.

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Yes, you can argue Devil, but Devil is not a person who chooses to wear heavy armor.  She is a robot made of metal, she has no choice, thus the example doesn't hold water.

 

we said "High Visibility" armoured form in referencing devil.  weren't the armour we were stressing but y'know, the shiny metallic/armor body which would be garnering considerable attention. light armours you speak o' is actual a fantastic choice for a fast moving shock trooper... and a poe rogue.  the min-maxers you referenced earlier (other than retaliation rogue builds which again is very shock trooperesque) would use rogues with Big weapons and little to no armour.  but again, trying to be a classic thief, even a murder stab stab kinda thief, would be more difficult when you gonna unnatural draw attention. 'course such conspicuousness wouldn't in the least impair a brutal fighting style, eh? 

 

rapier and glasses? shoulda' made the goth anime girl a ranged character if they were gonna give her glasses, and a rapier, while thematic great for a 1e d&d thief, is not the weapon we would give a rogue... 'less we were specific trying to conjure up oldy pre 1e thief parallels.  heck, by 2nd edition, the first edition to use 'rogue' language, thief were a class within the rogue category, which also included bards... and d&d bards is more analogous to poe chanters, no?  are bards making karkarov leap to notions o' murder, arson and throat cutting? no? poor karkarov's head must be spinning. 

 

using the doemenal as examples is hardly convincing either.  were more rogues in the game than the doemenal.  sure, is nothing which prevents a thief such as a few o' the doemenal, or a trapper/psychopath such as devil, or a farmer such as eder being a rogue CLASS.  nevertheless, what you chose to describe were character traits/flaws.  any class can be a criminal, no? a murderous person bent on revenge is personality shortcomings rather than representative o' a combat style. you could describe a fighter, mage, priest or any other class equal well by describing 'em as, "A murderer who goes from town to town slitting peoples throats and burning down their houses. A classic murder stab stab..." psychopath. obsidian could use any character class to create the criminal revenge seeker you describe, and that is the point.  you, and others, is so wedded to antiquated notions o' class, pre 2e d&d notions o' class in fact, you ain't recognizing how you conflate character with class. 

 

the mistake obsidian made were the naming nomenclature.  were apparent early during development that peoples would never be able to unburden themselves o' old timey thief baggage if obsidian adopted the rogue label.  had a similar problem with folks not being able to accept a different role for fighters and paladins. were most tedious to see posts insisting old 1e d&d notions should limit poe developers.  were kinda hoping we could move past such.  even so, am admitting obsidian is to blame for the simple and obvious mistake o' class naming nomenclature.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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rapier and glasses? shoulda' made the goth anime girl a ranged character if they were gonna give her glasses, and a rapier, while thematic great for a 1e d&d thief, is not the weapon we would give a rogue... 'less we were specific trying to conjure up oldy pre 1e thief parallels.  heck, by 2nd edition, the first edition to use 'rogue' language, thief were a class within the rogue category, which also included bards... and d&d bards is more analogous to poe chanters, no?  are bards making karkarov leap to notions o' murder, arson and throat cutting? no? poor karkarov's head must be spinning.

Well Gromnir you have devolved into insulting the person who doesn't agree with you.  That's mean I stopped reading your post there, because if a person has something of merit to say, they don't need an insult to say it. 

 

I will reply to this one thing though.  Rapiers are not sissy, girly, stab stab snobby weapons, and they are freaking terrible for someone wanting to "sneak around".  They literally replaced arming swords as the standard side arm for a number of good reasons, and they stayed the dominant side arm well into modern times until they got replaced by Sabres which were cavalry weapons and better for close quarters ship combat.  So here are some facts.

  • Rapiers actually weigh more than average arming swords do.  That fancy metal handle handle to protect your hand added a lot of weight.  In the end it isn't a ton more, but it is more.
  • Rapiers have longer blades than other one handed swords.  36-40 inches most of the time.  Average arming sword was more 28-30.
  • Rapiers are perfectly capable of slashing as well, you just don't do it with the tip, but more to the middle of the blade.
  • Rapiers are actually far more effective in one on one combat than just about any other sword ever invented, due to their superior thrusting, slashing versatility, and reach.

 

So no, they are not sneaky, I don't want to fight straight up, "finesse" weapons as D&D insists they are.  Really every weapon is a "finesse" weapon to begin with.  Even a wooden club wielded skillfully is still better than one wielded with pure force.  In fact, my "deadly shock trooper bad ass" Devil of Caroc in my game.... used a Rapier too.

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don't go channeling the more sensitive boardies who is current posting.  suggesting you would be confused by the obvious discrepancy o' oldie rogue category encompassing both bards and thieves (and assassin subclass) were hardly some kinda scathing insult.  

 

oh, and you is again preaching to the choir... 'least 'bout rapiers.  Gromnir has pointed out to josh, more than once, how if not on a battlefield wherein we is forced to hold or defend ground, on foot we would far prefer lighter armour and a heavy rapier than reticulated plate and a flamberge.  most melee battles end up with opponents rolling 'round in the mud, and the way you kill a guy in plate is by jamming a pointy weapon in armpit, groin or visor. heavy rapier and main gauche is not ideal for fighting a guy in plate, but given the choice, am gonna go with mobility every time.  'course a battlefield is different.  different also is the concept art o' ydwin's rapier, which is not one o' the heavier varieties.  she gots a light dueling weapon. she does not have a weapon one would place in the hands o' a shock trooper using a brutal fighting style.

 

as to insults, perceived and real, you ain't gonna see us get worked up over much o' anything.  been at this too long.  heck, karkarov insult where by he implied Gromnir is a fool in the earlier post escaped our notice 'til we reviewed moments ago to see if karkarov were being hypocritical.  lord knows if we responded with hand wringing and animosity to every such perceived slight, we would not have lasted on theses boards for decades.  probable not the response you wanted, but have been at this too long to worry over every poster's hurt feelings, particular when we is hardly being malicious.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"Those who won our independence by revolution were not cowards. They did not fear political change. They did not exalt order at the cost of liberty. To courageous, self-reliant men, with confidence in the power of free and fearless reasoning applied through the processes of popular government, no danger flowing from speech can be deemed clear and present, unless the incidence of the evil apprehended is so imminent that it may befall before there is opportunity for full discussion. If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."--Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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as to insults, perceived and real, you ain't gonna see us get worked up over much o' anything.  been at this too long.  heck, karkarov insult where by he implied Gromnir is a fool in the earlier post escaped our notice 'til we reviewed moments ago to see if karkarov were being hypocritical.  lord knows if we responded with hand wringing and animosity to every such perceived slight, we would not have lasted on theses boards for decades.  probable not the response you wanted, but have been at this too long to worry over every poster's hurt feelings, particular when we is hardly being malicious.

Well I did imply we were both fools to some degree in that comparison.

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I've never understood the hate for that character from some, it seems completely based on imagined ideas of what the character would be based on her look alone.

 

If think Obsidian is a good developer who knows how to make good characters then you think Ydwin would have been a good character.

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I've never understood the hate for that character from some, it seems completely based on imagined ideas of what the character would be based on her look alone.

 

If think Obsidian is a good developer who knows how to make good characters then you think Ydwin would have been a good character.

 

Given her description I think people are seeing her as already being founded in that stereotypical ideal strong independent academic autodidact prodigal bookworm alternative woman elf, with a side of either tsundere or yandere. We had a whole thread about it.

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I've never understood the hate for that character from some, it seems completely based on imagined ideas of what the character would be based on her look alone.

What about that description (Someone was kind enough to post it in another thread)?

 

 

 

A strange pale elf cipher from "a lot of different places". Fascinated by animancy, Ydwin spends her free time examining fresh and not-so-fresh corpses.  Though she has a charming and pleasant demeanor, new acquaintances are often shocked at her intimate familiarity with death and her dispassionate affect in the face of even the most grisly scenes.

Does not sound that much like a "scientist". More of an identification figure for gothic nerd girls. "Noone seems to understand, but death is sooo fascinating." The problem here is not that she fits into one stereotype. The character described and pictured there is a monster sewed together from the countless corpses of different stereotypes.

Maybe I can add something to help the writers fleshing out the character: She really likes chocolate, get's very nervous when cute boys are around and has an unhealthy taste for bad guys. As a child she didn't want to play with dolls. Instead she removed their body parts and sewed them together in another order. That alienated the other children, so she hadn't much social contact. Her parents didn't understand her and wanted her to become a lady. Study somthing harmless, find a man and marry him. They brought her to an animancer who should cure her soul, but he didn't find anything unusual. Still her parents were trying to force her. So she ran away oftentimes. Her mother learned to accept how her daughter was, but her father never did, so she had no good relationship with him. Then her father died and she never had the opportunity to get things right with him. Later she found out, that she was bisexual... Shall I continue? I can do this for hours. I would love to tell you the episode where she couldn't save her cat from dying.

Edited by Lord_Mord
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I've never understood the hate for that character from some, it seems completely based on imagined ideas of what the character would be based on her look alone.

What about that description (Someone was kind enough to post it in another thread)?

 

A strange pale elf cipher from "a lot of different places". Fascinated by animancy, Ydwin spends her free time examining fresh and not-so-fresh corpses. Though she has a charming and pleasant demeanor, new acquaintances are often shocked at her intimate familiarity with death and her dispassionate affect in the face of even the most grisly scenes.

Does not sound that much like a "scientist". More of an identification figure for gothic nerd girls. "Noone seems to understand, but death is sooo fascinating." The problem here is not that she fits into one stereotype. The character described and pictured there is a monster sewed together from the countless corpses of different stereotypes.

Maybe I can add something to help the writers fleshing out the character: She really likes chocolate, get's very nervous when cute boys are around and has an unhealthy taste for bad guys. As a child she didn't want to play with dolls. Instead she removed their body parts and sewed them together in another order. That alienated the other children, so she hadn't much social contact. Her parents didn't understand her and wanted her to become a lady. Study somthing harmless, find a man and marry him. They brought her to an animancer who should cure her soul, but he didn't find anything unusual. Still her parents were trying to force her. So she ran away oftentimes. Her mother learned to accept how her daughter was, but her father never did, so she had no good relationship with him. Then her father died and she never had the opportunity to get things right with him. Later she found out, that she was bisexual... Shall I continue? I can do this for hours. I would love to tell you the episode where she couldn't save her cat from dying.

Maybe you could expound a bit more on her alleged bisexuality? Shocking rumours of course and hardly of any interest to me.. I'm asking for a friend.

 

:')

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Maybe you could expound a bit more on her alleged bisexuality? Shocking rumours of course and hardly of any interest to me.. I'm asking for a friend.

 

:')

 

There was that girl in her cipher class. She was more into philosophy and arts than animancy but she seemed to understand her in a way. They used to go to Mowrgroks Pizza Place after school and talked about lots of things. Like soulmates. Soon Ydwen noticed that something was going on, something more than just friendship. So one day, after they were doing something awesome together that strengthened their bond, she tried to kiss her. But that girl didn't react as expected. She just wanted to be best friends, but that event destroyed everything. So Ydwin once more had alienated a person that was really important in her life.

 

Later the girl died.

Edited by Lord_Mord
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Maybe you could expound a bit more on her alleged bisexuality? Shocking rumours of course and hardly of any interest to me.. I'm asking for a friend.

 

:')

 

There was that girl in her cipher class. She was more into philosophy and arts than animancy but she seemed to understand her in a way. They used to go to Morgroks Pizza Place after school and talked about lots of things. Like soulmates. Soon Ydwen noticed that something was going on, something more than just friendship. So one day, after they were doing something awesome together that strengthened their bond, she tried to kiss her. But that girl didn't react as expected. She just wanted to be best friends, but that event destroyed everything. So Ydwin once more had alienated a person that was really important in her life.

 

Later the girl died.

 

But not before she killed her dog, who Ydwin also loved.

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"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

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I've never understood the hate for that character from some, it seems completely based on imagined ideas of what the character would be based on her look alone.

What about that description (Someone was kind enough to post it in another thread)?

 

 

 

A strange pale elf cipher from "a lot of different places". Fascinated by animancy, Ydwin spends her free time examining fresh and not-so-fresh corpses.  Though she has a charming and pleasant demeanor, new acquaintances are often shocked at her intimate familiarity with death and her dispassionate affect in the face of even the most grisly scenes.

Does not sound that much like a "scientist". More of an identification figure for gothic nerd girls. "Noone seems to understand, but death is sooo fascinating." The problem here is not that she fits into one stereotype. The character described and pictured there is a monster sewed together from the countless corpses of different stereotypes.

Maybe I can add something to help the writers fleshing out the character: She really likes chocolate, get's very nervous when cute boys are around and has an unhealthy taste for bad guys. As a child she didn't want to play with dolls. Instead she removed their body parts and sewed them together in another order. That alienated the other children, so she hadn't much social contact. Her parents didn't understand her and wanted her to become a lady. Study somthing harmless, find a man and marry him. They brought her to an animancer who should cure her soul, but he didn't find anything unusual. Still her parents were trying to force her. So she ran away oftentimes. Her mother learned to accept how her daughter was, but her father never did, so she had no good relationship with him. Then her father died and she never had the opportunity to get things right with him. Later she found out, that she was bisexual... Shall I continue? I can do this for hours. I would love to tell you the episode where she couldn't save her cat from dying.

 

You sure gleaned a lot from three sentences. Feels a little like there is some projection going on. Trying to bind souls to prevent death is one big part of the study of animancy, so of course some who study animancy will be preoccupied with this aspect. The allure of learning what lies beyond the grave, how to communicate with souls after death, or even prevent death itself would be hard to ignore for some animancers.

 

She's a people person who is "pleasant and charming" so a lot of your suppositions are contradicted directly.

 

You try and paint a picture of an alienated and socially awkward person but that is directly contradicted by the very description you quoted. Frankly a lot of this sounds like politically motivated nonsense perhaps relating to a certain two letter abbreviated movement. I expect next I'll be told that she wears low cut tops and streams her image over magic mirrors through the Twitchyverse and how horrible that is.

Edited by Mygaffer
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Yeah, that is way too much of reading. My own personal take on it was that Ydwin was a straight up psychopath, putting on a friendly demeanor, all the while doing Johann Conrad Dippel experiments.

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