Ydwin to return in the expansion?

[Katarack21]

If they were going for anime, then as far as I'm concerned they failed. This is just another elf with a rapier. It's all over google; it's a trope itself. Nothing wrong with anime; I love me anime (to my personal taste, of course!), but this is just...well, look at it!

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1216&bih=571&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=western+RPG+female+characters+with+rapiers+pleated+skirt&oq=western+RPG+female+characters+with+rapiers+pleated+skirt&gs_l=img.3...51051.55352.0.55563.14.14.0.0.0.0.67.675.14.14.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0.wvIKW4Sd1d8

[blotter]

Heh, for a second I actually started to imagine literal anime dog whistles, which probably exist.

 

In any case, I'm not sure it's entirely true that Xoti's concept art is 100% free of things that could be argued as evocative of anime influence. Pretty young female battle-priests who smirk while wielding impractical weapons (sickles included) are a dime a dozen in anime after all, but I suppose there probably is a bit of a shifting threshold that her concept art doesn't necessarily breach.

Edited May 2, 2017 by blotter

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Xoti looks fairly in place in PoE's faux-renaissance setting, and so does Ydwin in all honesty. Frankly I thought Ydwin was more of a nuViconia than an anime character. For PoE2 Xoti is more important than Ydwin because a Priest of Eothas will have more to say about a plot that directly involves Eothas. And because Drow are stupid and pale elves are drow-lite.

[Gromnir]

xoti actual wields sickles based  'pon art seen so far... and a lantern shield, but not a real lantern shield. the sickle, much like the flail, is traditional farming implements which has often been turned into weapons. on the other hand, "impractical" anime weapons is a much different category, no? your dual-wield scythes and swords the size o' a f-150 truck bumper and crucifix shoulder cannons is not the same kinda improbable as is sickles, eh?

 

 

oh, and multiple threads attest to the fact that ydwin has in fact inspired frequent anime comparisons.  xoti?  not. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[smjjames]

Also, it being concept art, it's not likely to be her final look. Although the models are probably mostly set in stone by now.

[Achilles]

If they were going for anime, then as far as I'm concerned they failed. This is just another elf with a rapier. It's all over google; it's a trope itself. Nothing wrong with anime; I love me anime (to my personal taste, of course!), but this is just...well, look at it!

 

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1216&bih=571&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=western+RPG+female+characters+with+rapiers+pleated+skirt&oq=western+RPG+female+characters+with+rapiers+pleated+skirt&gs_l=img.3...51051.55352.0.55563.14.14.0.0.0.0.67.675.14.14.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0.wvIKW4Sd1d8

 

Err...am I supposed to be looking at the one pic that isn't anime or is the link broken?

 

EDIT: In case it wasn't clear, I'm mostly busting your chops here, but since this is all in good fun, re-run that search and don't stack the deck by adding the words "Western RPG" to the beginning. Tell me what you get

Edited May 2, 2017 by Achilles

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Other than the anime eyes the look isn't too much different. And there's this gem if you take out "pleaded skirt".

 

[blotter]

For PoE2 Xoti is more important than Ydwin because a Priest of Eothas will have more to say about a plot that directly involves Eothas.

 

Yeah, I'd agree that she probably is more incidental to the plot, but that probably has less to do with her general character concept than the point at which she was created or specific plans for her. The plot also heavily features luminous adra, the animancers who are fascinated by it, and the Vailian republics. It just so happens Ydwin's bio identifies her as an animancer with ties to the Vailian Republics and a fascination with luminous adra.

 

 

 

on the other hand, "impractical" anime weapons is a much different category, no?

 

 

When I was referring to impractical weapons, I meant impractical in general, not impractical specifically within the context of anime. Choosing weapons based on dubious symbolism and misguided "rule of cool" conceits are things that I tend to see condemned about anime, regardless of whether those weapons are four feet wide and nine feet long or just ineffective without being structurally absurd.

 

And sure, farming implements definitely have a history of being weaponized to an extent and employed in warfare; it's cheap and practical in terms of saving money that would otherwise be spent arming foot soldiers who were predominantly cannon fodder anyway, but where the wielder's concerned it's pretty damned impractical to use many of these weapons when ones more specialized for war are available. Or so I'd assume. History and the respective pros and cons of medieval weapons admittedly aren't subjects that I specialize in, but I'd generally expect something like a spear or even possibly a hatchet to reliably outperform a sickle when it comes to breaching armor/killing people.

 

 

 

oh, and multiple threads attest to the fact that ydwin has in fact inspired frequent anime comparisons.  xoti?  not.

 

 

I don't think anyone here was ever disputing that Ydwin drew more anime comparisons. I certainly wasn't, as evidenced by the fact that I mentioned my surprise that Xoti didn't draw any ire from the community after being described as toting "akimbo scythes".

Edited May 2, 2017 by blotter

[Achilles]

Other than the anime eyes the look isn't too much different. 

 

 

That was kinda the point. "Western RPG" returned fewer results and some of them could be classified as something other than anime. Remove that part and it just stops pretending.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Other than the anime eyes the look isn't too much different.

 

 

That was kinda the point. "Western RPG" returned fewer results and some of them could be classified as something other than anime. Remove that part and it just stops pretending.

I meant most Western RPG ones looked similar to the anime, outaide of eyes and color. Western RPG also contained the closest to Ydwin.

 

[smjjames]

Not sure what 'toting akimbo scythes' is supposed to mean in the context of Xoti.

[Katarack21]

Xoti looks fairly in place in PoE's faux-renaissance setting, and so does Ydwin in all honesty. Frankly I thought Ydwin was more of a nuViconia than an anime character. For PoE2 Xoti is more important than Ydwin because a Priest of Eothas will have more to say about a plot that directly involves Eothas. And because Drow are stupid and pale elves are drow-lite.

But...pale elves are literally the exact physical opposite of Drow and share nothing culturally with them.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Xoti looks fairly in place in PoE's faux-renaissance setting, and so does Ydwin in all honesty. Frankly I thought Ydwin was more of a nuViconia than an anime character. For PoE2 Xoti is more important than Ydwin because a Priest of Eothas will have more to say about a plot that directly involves Eothas. And because Drow are stupid and pale elves are drow-lite.

 

But...pale elves are literally the exact physical opposite of Drow and share nothing culturally with them.

Sawyer said they were the drow analogue and they've got the white hair.

[blotter]

 

 

Not sure what 'toting akimbo scythes' is supposed to mean in the context of Xoti.

 

It was just how they described her in the same update that made Ydwin the poster girl for anime encroachment into Eora as far as some people are concerned. More specifically "toting akimbo scythes" suggests dual wielding wicked looking farming implements that usually require both hands with arms akimbo to strike a "badass" pose, perhaps not unlike the pose in that goofy screenshot I posted earlier (no offense to anyone who likes that franchise).

[Achilles]

 

 

Other than the anime eyes the look isn't too much different.

 

That was kinda the point. "Western RPG" returned fewer results and some of them could be classified as something other than anime. Remove that part and it just stops pretending.

I meant most Western RPG ones looked similar to the anime, outaide of eyes and color. Western RPG also contained the closest to Ydwin.

 

 

Debatable

 

[Gromnir]

 

If they were going for anime, then as far as I'm concerned they failed. This is just another elf with a rapier. It's all over google; it's a trope itself. Nothing wrong with anime; I love me anime (to my personal taste, of course!), but this is just...well, look at it!

 

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1216&bih=571&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=western+RPG+female+characters+with+rapiers+pleated+skirt&oq=western+RPG+female+characters+with+rapiers+pleated+skirt&gs_l=img.3...51051.55352.0.55563.14.14.0.0.0.0.67.675.14.14.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0.wvIKW4Sd1d8

 

Err...am I supposed to be looking at the one pic that isn't anime or is the link broken?

 

EDIT: In case it wasn't clear, I'm mostly busting your chops here, but since this is all in good fun, re-run that search and don't stack the deck by adding the words "Western RPG" to the beginning. Tell me what you get

 

 

virtual none o' those images is actual from western rpgs regardless.  look at 'em.  pick out the ladies who actual have skirts (not knee-length armour) and is wielding rapiers.  virtual all is anime/jrpg.

 

 

 

 

When I was referring to impractical weapons, I meant impractical in general, not impractical specifically within the context of anime. 

 

that was precisely our point.  you is taking much outta context.  simple 'cause a crpg weapon is impractical, it do not inspire anime comparison and ridicule.  western crpg warhammers, for example, owe more to thor comics and to the practicalities o' crpg engines.  a genuine war hammer in a game such as bg1, given the size o' sprites, woulda' been almost indistinguishable from maces and morningstars. bg1 warhammers is impractical, but their flaws is clear o' a different character than 

 

 

to paint all impractical with the same brush is dishonest. so sickles and hatchets, is more or less practical a martial weapon than a club?  is hardly same as anime extremis, eh?  

 

once again, xoti did not raise ire 'cause regardless o' the presumed misprint o' scythes, we had images o' her which clear do not inspire anime comparison.  is no mystery.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps a sickle is also frequent identified as a hand scythe.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Gromnir

[blotter]

you is taking much outta context. simple 'cause a crpg weapon is impractical, it do not inspire anime comparison and ridicule.

 

I haven't taken anything out of context. People are often happy to engage in anime comparison and ridicule even without characters necessarily toting massive, sharpened lumps of iron. Bookish girls with rapiers/action girls with sickles triumphing over hordes of towering brutes with battleaxes certainly can prompt people to denigrate the media that includes them as being anime-influenced. What provokes the comparison isn't necessarily the weapon itself (though there are cases where it can be); how the weapon is used and who's using it can make all the difference. And on the off chance that someone thinks that I'm trying to conflate anime ridicule with sexism, I'm not. I'm equally confident that teenage boys and adult bishonen mowing through burly mooks with historically accurate katanas or sufficiently ornate longswords can elicit the same reaction from an audience for similar reasons.

 

 

 

to paint all impractical with the same brush is dishonest.

 

How so? The difference is one of degree rather than kind, and as I mentioned above, the weapon itself can simply be part of the equation. I didn't bother to proclaim that neither sickles nor rapiers are as impractical as cartoonish two-handed cleavers like the one you posted above because it's both obvious and immaterial to the comparison of Ydwin and Xoti, neither of whom have the latter types of weapons. If you actually think that others wouldn't be able to appreciate that these things exist along a continuum of impracticality, then I guess I'll applaud your diligence in protecting them from any misconceptions I may have left them with.

Edited May 2, 2017 by blotter

[Gromnir]

 

 

okie dokie. your logic is so tangled as to defy response.  there is indeed more tropes than anime-style weapons which is gonna invite valid criticism.  nobody denied.  the constant attempt to inject tsundere and yandere into these threads should have made your observation unnecessary, no? am certain you think you made some kinda point by adding more potential reasons for seeing ridicule-worthy anime parallels, but am at a loss. and no, the anime weapon trope is hardly a simple matter o' degree. a weapon which is more useful as a farm or camping implement is a different kind of stretch than is a "weapon" which defies physics itself.  using a hatchet to attack a man in full plate?  ridiculous, but a much different kinda ridiculous than

 

 

again, you are being more than a little disingenuous. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[blotter]

the constant attempt to inject tsundere and yandere into these threads should have made your observation unnecessary, no?

 

Not really. The anime comparisons started following the concept art, after which the tsundere and yandere stuff ensued. Most likely, the initial comparison of the concept art to anime was prompted by more than just Ydwin's weapon; in many cases, the reasoning was probably quite similar to my explanation of convergence between the weapon, who's using it (a petite, bespectacled, albino elf girl), and how (to strike a fairly stupid pose). I'd say that sounds quite similar to the sorts of interactions I was explaining to you in my earlier post.

 

 

but am at a loss.

 

 

Clearly.

 

 

and no, the anime weapon trope is hardly a simple matter o' degree. a weapon which is more useful as a farm or camping implement is a different kind of stretch than is a "weapon" which defies physics itself.

 

The relative impracticality of various impractical weapons, however, is absolutely a matter of degree. You're continuing to insist that I mentioned impractical weapons in some effort to capitalize on an implicit association with the deep (or at least deeper) end of anime absurdity; I'll reiterate that this is not my intention. Since you're convinced that I'm a liar, I don't expect you to believe this but I'll toss it out there anyway: if I had meant to conflate Xoti's sickle with various knockoffs of Cloud's Buster Sword, I would have said that she had an anime weapon, not an impractical one. My description was intended to illustrate that a combination of features within Xoti's concept art, her choice of weapon included, could be argued to be anime-like as well in response to a post that stated her concept art had no such warning signs. Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited May 2, 2017 by blotter

[Katarack21]

 

If they were going for anime, then as far as I'm concerned they failed. This is just another elf with a rapier. It's all over google; it's a trope itself. Nothing wrong with anime; I love me anime (to my personal taste, of course!), but this is just...well, look at it!

 

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1216&bih=571&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=western+RPG+female+characters+with+rapiers+pleated+skirt&oq=western+RPG+female+characters+with+rapiers+pleated+skirt&gs_l=img.3...51051.55352.0.55563.14.14.0.0.0.0.67.675.14.14.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0.wvIKW4Sd1d8

 

Err...am I supposed to be looking at the one pic that isn't anime or is the link broken?

 

EDIT: In case it wasn't clear, I'm mostly busting your chops here, but since this is all in good fun, re-run that search and don't stack the deck by adding the words "Western RPG" to the beginning. Tell me what you get

 

 

"Western RPG" is the point! This game is a Western RPG, and they're using a Western RPG trope! THIS IS A WESTERN RPG TROPE, NOT AN ANIME TROPE!

 

It's just another female elf with a rapier! It's a common deal, almost a cliche.

[hilfazer]

Hey guys.

Did you know rapiers have crossguards? It means Ydwin does not have one, but rather a smallsword (yeah, hilt is not too standard but it can pass as a smallsword). 

I really like it. Ydwin does not seem very strong and since rapiers are not light it makes more sense to give her something lighter like a smallsword. Good job Obsidian.

 

 

And i've yet to see a proper explanation on why Ydwin looks anime.

Just showing pictures won't cut it.

[Fardragon]

Just thought I would throw this into the discussion (and then duck back into my bunker and watch the mayhem).

 

 

[CrumpetsForBreakfast]

She seemed the most potentially interesting so far but I wouldn't invest too many expectations in a sequel to a product that isn't even finished yet.

[CrumpetsForBreakfast]

Hey guys.

Did you know rapiers have crossguards? It means Ydwin does not have one, but rather a smallsword (yeah, hilt is not too standard but it can pass as a smallsword). 

I really like it. Ydwin does not seem very strong and since rapiers are not light it makes more sense to give her something lighter like a smallsword. Good job Obsidian.

 

 

And i've yet to see a proper explanation on why Ydwin looks anime.

Just showing pictures won't cut it.

 

I've seen that too, he has quite a few interesting takes on things like padded armor being very good.

[Achilles]

 

 

If they were going for anime, then as far as I'm concerned they failed. This is just another elf with a rapier. It's all over google; it's a trope itself. Nothing wrong with anime; I love me anime (to my personal taste, of course!), but this is just...well, look at it!

 

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1216&bih=571&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=western+RPG+female+characters+with+rapiers+pleated+skirt&oq=western+RPG+female+characters+with+rapiers+pleated+skirt&gs_l=img.3...51051.55352.0.55563.14.14.0.0.0.0.67.675.14.14.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.0.0.wvIKW4Sd1d8

 

Err...am I supposed to be looking at the one pic that isn't anime or is the link broken?

 

EDIT: In case it wasn't clear, I'm mostly busting your chops here, but since this is all in good fun, re-run that search and don't stack the deck by adding the words "Western RPG" to the beginning. Tell me what you get

 

 

"Western RPG" is the point! This game is a Western RPG, and they're using a Western RPG trope! THIS IS A WESTERN RPG TROPE, NOT AN ANIME TROPE!

 

It's just another female elf with a rapier! It's a common deal, almost a cliche.

 

 

Then please help me understand why most of those results were anime and *far* more results came back when the term was removed. I understand that you want to believe that it's a Western RPG trope, but the evidence begs to differ.

 

EDIT: Keep in mind that your link returned this as a result. Think carefully before you throw yourself into defending it.

 

Edited May 2, 2017 by Achilles