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Tim Cain at Reboot Develop 2017 - Building a Better RPG: Seven Mistakes to Avoid


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#61
Bartimaeus

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It will differ from game system to game system, because sometimes a "10% increase" means adding 10% to your critical chance (so if your base chance was 5%, it would then be 15% - examples of this would be in Diablo, and as Azdeus just said, World of Warcraft, apparently), and sometimes it means to multiply your base chance (so 5% * 1.1 = 5.5%). Sometimes, games aren't totally clear about what they mean at first glance.


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#62
majestic

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On the crit chance vs crit damage, after raiding in WoW where they had both, I'd have to say I really never thought about the increased crit damage as much as I noticed the increase in crit chance. Going from 10% to 20% crit chance was really noticeable, but my strikes going from ~5k to 5.5k wasn't really worth noticing.

I'm weird I guess.

 

That's not weird, that's the way class abilities and gear synergizes with critical strike/heal chance (or other stats). WoW and a lot of other game systems (not necessarily only in MMORPGs) activate special abilities, buffs or debuffs on critical hits. When you have a case of increased critical strike chance being demonstrably superior to pure increased critical effect on the same scale then you're going to notice it much more.

 

Especially if the game in question gives you interesting feedback about it. If you have a cool ability that can only be used every third critical strike you'd probably notice more crits rather than larger ones in a much more satisfying manner.

 

If you don't and all crits really are is bigger numbers on the screen a few of them being much bigger will be much more memorable than a few more being smaller.



#63
Infinitron

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#64
kirottu

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I guess you could say Infinitron rebooted this thread.



#65
injurai

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Just watched this. I really like all the points he had to make. He made a salient point on players experiencing things subconsciously. It's those details that make the world alive. Even in total non-rpgs I think this matters a lot. I think GTA is a great example of accomplishing this at a city wide scale. The Witcher 3 lacked this in Novigrad.

 

Additionally the geometric approach to attributes could be really taken to some complex extremes. Embedding certain traits within the geometry. Perhaps using area sweeping metrics. In his example of one triangle and one inverse triangle, you could make a partition that keeps the area on either side of the division equal. Otherwise this approach would become imbalanced. I can think of some really clever tricks using sparse matrices, overlay graphs, and other things to get an user facing organic feel to stats that is supplemented by a vast and complex set of underlying layers. Using simulated annealing to generate the base balance profiles, etc.



#66
Infinitron

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Now on YouTube:

 


Edited by Infinitron, 08 June 2017 - 01:13 AM.

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#67
Quillon

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And this one was after reboot:



#68
Gizmo

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Late to the party; I just watched Tim Cain's 7 Mistakes talk. I liked it (the whole thing), though I'm not too keen on some of his mentioned "mistakes" as being mistakes,  but I won't doubt (and certainly won't dispute) his change in design preference, or his observations on player reactions to game systems.  (That'd be silly of me :p)

*But I'd rather the numbers, no guaranteed hits, and actual random random; (indefinite miss streaks and all).

 

 

I wonder if anyone (or how many dozens) mentioned to him that the Witcher sequel asked those many questions because he didn't have the previous two saved games that store the answers to them... The game seeks to match the history of the Player's Geralt, by the way that the previous games concluded; what decisions were made.   Answering at random (instead of with a save), just chooses one of the past options—and its effects.

 

**I recommend playing Witcher 1 though, it's very different from W2 & W3; and can play closer to NwN (not surprisingly)...but with better combat. 

There are a several sad parallels between W1 and what happened with its sequels, as with Fallout and its own most recent sequels. 

(Like Fallout, the first Witcher is my favorite, and most preferred of its series.)

3xyCTe0.gif


Edited by Gizmo, 08 October 2017 - 11:07 PM.

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#69
Jozape

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Late to the party; I just watched Tim Cain's 7 Mistakes talk. I liked it (the whole thing), though I'm not too keen on some of his mentioned "mistakes" as being mistakes,  but I won't doubt (and certainly won't dispute) his change in design preference, and his observations on player reactions to game systems.  (That'd be silly of me :p)

*But I'd rather the numbers, no guaranteed hits, and actual random random; (indefinite miss streaks and all).

 

Ignorance of probability is one of the worst scourges to have to deal with today. Sad to see such respected designers as Tim Cain change their game design to allow people to remain ignorant. Hopefully he changes his mind...


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