Suggestion: allow re-allocation of primary stats for companions

[ledroc]

Ok, so here's my dilemma. I love the companion stories, I love them talking and interacting etc. It seems in Deadfire it will play an even bigger role.

I know that you can retrain companions and change their talents etc but not their primary stats. It would be really nice to have the best of both worlds. I find myself rolling characters at the Inn because I have something in mind, where the companions might not have that same idea.

 

For example, I assume most people play Eder as tank. What if I wanted him for another role?  Hard to do that without changing his primary stats around.

 

Thanks for a great community

[Boeroer]

No, I don't think it's hard to do. Actually the stats of the official companion in PoE are balanced enough so that they can be turned into all kind of roles and builds while staying true to their appearance and background story. 

 

For example I play Edér as a dual wielding caster rusher at the moment. 90% offense, only 10% defense (roughly). Works totally fine.

 

Companions have a huge advantage over hirelings: They start one level higher. This makes the early game with companions a lot easier than with hirelings. And later on the differences in stats are mitigated anyway because cumulated level bonuses and talents/abilites are much more important and have way more impact than some stat points in the perfect places.

 

I would agree with you if we had some companions who have dumped stats, like 3 INT or 3 MIG or something like that. But since we don't have those, they work quite well in all kind of builds.

 

p.s.: I play PotD only

Edited February 27, 2017 by Boeroer

[AndreaColombo]

I think Josh said on Reddit they'll offer restat and it will include companions.

[Boeroer]

I could have lived without it - but I don't object it either.

[draego]

Ye i never understood why this was such a big deal to powergamers but i dont care either way. I will just use their base stuff. 

[Boeroer]

I am a powergamer and I didn't care.

[AndreaColombo]

I am a powergamer and sometimes I wished Durance wasn't so freaking slow so I could enjoy his story too, instead of having to go custom for my priest

 

But I'd rate that an extreme case; other companions could be pretty strong with their stats and didn't need further optimization imo.

 

That said, more options is always a good thing in my book dosi welcome the feature. I'll use if it strikes my fancy.

[JerekKruger]

As AndreaColombo says, it has been stated by Obsidian that they are thinking about allowing companion restatting.

 

One thing though:

 

For example, I assume most people play Eder as tank. What if I wanted him for another role?  Hard to do that without changing his primary stats around.

 

The affect of attributes on characters is vastly overstated by most (I believe based on experience of previous CRPGs, where it was important). In PoE, on any difficulty, attribute spread is relatively unimportant. There are a few specialised builds where this doesn't hold true, but in general the difference between a super optimised character and an unoptimised one is fairly negligible.

 

For example, I almost always build Edér as a Lady of Pain which is an off-tank damage dealer. You could equally build him as a pure tank (though I think doing so with Fighters is a mistake).

[JerekKruger]

I am a powergamer and sometimes I wished Durance wasn't so freaking slow so I could enjoy his story too, instead of having to go custom for my priest

 

One does not enjoy Durance's story, one merely endures it.

 

But I'd rate that an extreme case; other companions could be pretty strong with their stats and didn't need further optimization imo.

 

Devil of Caroc is the only other companion that springs to mind as being a bit annoying in her attribute spread, but it both cases it's more of an annoyance than a real hindrance.

 

That said, more options is always a good thing in my book dosi welcome the feature.

 

Agreed, though I doubt I'd use it myself (unless Deadfire turns out to be a lot harder than Pillars).

Edited February 27, 2017 by JerekKruger

[AndreaColombo]

And in enduring, one grows strong?

[JerekKruger]

And in enduring, one grows strong?

 

That or contract the pox I think.

[Katarack21]

And in enduring, one grows strong?

By enduring, one get's severe PTSD. Just check out Durance's issues!

[Blarghagh]

It's a nice option to have for replays where you want to try multiple wacky builds.

[Baramos]

I can see a "Berath's blessing" allowing you to do that.

[MaxQuest]

I would agree with you if we had some companions who have dumped stats, like 3 INT or 3 MIG or something like that. But since we don't have those, they work quite well in all kind of builds.

All companions indeed have a couple of optimal builds that can suit them.

But there are few scenarios when you need something specific. For example I may like Aloth, but he is not super fitting for Zeblastion or Bilestomper builds

[HoopleDoople]

I personally think that locking the companion attributes is vastly preferable, but only for the first play through. This is primarily to ensure that players have easy access to companions that can properly fulfill all needed roles. It's hard enough for beginners to figure out how to distribute attributes for 1 character let alone 5 (or 6). It is also arguably helpful to keep power gamers in check (assuming they aren't crazy enough to use generic companions on their first playthrough). Without the ability to fully customize all party members, power gamers have less of a chance of trivializing content for their initial experience.

 

But once players have completed the game I think its time to stop hand holding and let players customize away to create the new experiences they find enjoyable. Full freedom in distributing companion stats is a no brainer. But I'd even go so far as to allow total freedom for class and race selection. It might be a little immersion breaking if Eder is a Wild Orlan Cipher, but in my opinion this is still preferable to forcing players to use boring generic companions to craft their optimal party.

[Boeroer]

 

I would agree with you if we had some companions who have dumped stats, like 3 INT or 3 MIG or something like that. But since we don't have those, they work quite well in all kind of builds.

All companions indeed have a couple of optimal builds that can suit them.

But there are few scenarios when you need something specific. For example I may like Aloth, but he is not super fitting for Zeblastion or Bilestomper builds

 

And he wouldn't be with other stats - unless you could also change the race.

[JerekKruger]

So, we should allow race changes for companions

Edited February 27, 2017 by JerekKruger

[rjshae]

My only hope is they don't waste many resources on this type of metagaming stuff. They could just publish the file format and let some modder do it.

[FlintlockJazz]

I gotta say, I'm reluctant to approve of attribute changes for companions, as I feel they are one of the aspects by which you define a character.  You know by looking at the attributes what the developer intended for their personality.  Imagine if they had allowed it in Baldur's Gate and you used it to raise Minsc's intelligence to 18, it would just feel wrong, and make finding that companion or sidekick with that awesome stat not as meaningful.  Hell, maybe instead of being able to change their stats they should instead give some characters more points than you can normally get?  To represent that character feeding one of their mates to the blood pool before you met them.

[Koth]

So, we should allow race changes for companions

I'd be more up for allowing class changes of companions. I don't think I could handle Eder as a wild orlan etc. Every time I looked at the portait I'd feel dirty. If you just allowed stat re-allocation and class unlocking, that'd be enough. Just plan out your race / class combinations in advance and then re-roll them accordingly.

[JerekKruger]

I gotta say, I'm reluctant to approve of attribute changes for companions, as I feel they are one of the aspects by which you define a character.  You know by looking at the attributes what the developer intended for their personality.  Imagine if they had allowed it in Baldur's Gate and you used it to raise Minsc's intelligence to 18, it would just feel wrong, and make finding that companion or sidekick with that awesome stat not as meaningful.  Hell, maybe instead of being able to change their stats they should instead give some characters more points than you can normally get?  To represent that character feeding one of their mates to the blood pool before you met them.

 

I feel the same about a companion's attributes as designed representing an aspect of who they are, and I don't think I'd ever change their attributes, but I tend to fall down on the side of allowing more options for others as long as they're not going to take lots of developer time to implement (and I doubt this would).

 

I'd be more up for allowing class changes of companions. I don't think I could handle Eder as a wild orlan etc. Every time I looked at the portait I'd feel dirty. If you just allowed stat re-allocation and class unlocking, that'd be enough. Just plan out your race / class combinations in advance and then re-roll them accordingly.

 

Hah, I was only kidding with respect to changing race.

[ledroc]

thanks for the feedback everyone.

 

Here is my intent. Allowing restat doesn't mean people have to use it.  It's the same with retraining. How many people felt the need to ever retrain any of the companions?  But didn't you like the idea that you could dump that if you wanted?

 

I think the ideal scenario is to set the companions stats and skills when you meet them but allow you to retrain them if you want.  The majority of people would never push the button but some of us would like to.

[mumbogumshoe]

Honestly, I don't feel that re-statting companions and retraining are equivalent. Retraining gives you the option to correct a mistake you made while leveling up or to take the character into a different direction. Point being, you use it to change something that you yourself did but later came to regret. Re-statting the character means changing a significant bit of the characters core identity that you don't normally have control over. I kinda like the fact that certain aspects of the companions are off limits to the player, that you have to make do with certain things and can't change them. It makes the companions more credible as their own, independent entities in the world and muddling the line between them and self-created adventurers by opening up significant aspects of the character creation process is not something that I personally want to see. It's an aesthetic preference in a way and of course "you don't have to use it, it'd just be an option for people who want to" is hard to argue against. Who am I to deny people options? But I do feel that options like this can sometimes cause harm because they have impact on the integrity of the game world. I mean, it's clear that there are some aspects that the player shouldn't have control over, even with companions. Should the player be able to make Pallegina a Wild Orlan rogue from The White That Wends even though it makes no sense for her character and the lore of the world? I guess nobody argues for that but if someone did and came with the argument that "I'd just like the option, you don't have to use it", I'd still be against it. A line has to be drawn somewhere to protect the independence and the integrity of the companions and the game world and personally, drawing that line right after character creation seems fine to me. Maybe I'm just a bit conservative when it comes to things like this.

Edited February 28, 2017 by mumbogumshoe

[MaxQuest]

And he wouldn't be with other stats - unless you could also change the race.

Just a change of racial abilities is enough

RemoveTalent Companion_zzz distantadvantage

AddAbility Companion_zzz elementalendurance

 

You know by looking at the attributes what the developer intended for their personality.  Imagine if they had allowed it in Baldur's Gate and you used it to raise Minsc's intelligence to 18, it would just feel wrong, and make finding that companion or sidekick with that awesome stat not as meaningful.

Makes sense, from RP point of view.

Edited February 28, 2017 by MaxQuest