Revamped Spellcasting Mechanics?

[Dark_Ansem]

Can we hope to get rid of the D&D 4th Spellcasting mechanics and have something either more traditional (MP, D&D5th) or more unique?

[Regggler]

They are getting rid of Vancian casting, if I recall correctly, and make most things per encounter.

[Dark_Ansem]

They are getting rid of Vancian casting, if I recall correctly, and make most things per encounter.

 

Oh, even worse than before!

[transfett]

 

They are getting rid of Vancian casting, if I recall correctly, and make most things per encounter.

 

Oh, even worse than before!

 

Nah, it just means that everyone will have more spells within each single fight, and that in turn will improve encounter design

Edited February 25, 2017 by transfett

[Dark_Ansem]

 

 

They are getting rid of Vancian casting, if I recall correctly, and make most things per encounter.

 

Oh, even worse than before!

 

Nah, it just means that everyone will have more spells within each single fight, and that in turn will improve encounter design

 

 

I suppose I'll see during the beta.

[Regggler]

I'm actually in favour of the changes - Vancian casting frequently makes me think "Why am I playing a wizard/druid/... if I don't use my spells". And if your are willing to suffer endless amounts of backtracking, then all spells are per encounter spells in PoE 1 anyway.

[AwesomeOcelot]

They need more per encounter spells, just to balance the classes and give people something to do in smaller encounters. This also makes sense with 5 party members.

[Dark_Ansem]

I'm actually in favour of the changes - Vancian casting frequently makes me think "Why am I playing a wizard/druid/... if I don't use my spells". And if your are willing to suffer endless amounts of backtracking, then all spells are per encounter spells in PoE 1 anyway.

 

That could work. But a "recharge system" of sorts would also be needed.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I believe all abilities are per-encounter and there's a new per-rest resource called empower that boosts the power of abilities by 3 levels. So a 5th level wizard can toss 1 fireball per-encounter and use empower that makes it deal damage like a 8th level wizard.

 

There's also talk of a revamped health system but I don't know much about it.

[hilfazer]

 

They are getting rid of Vancian casting, if I recall correctly, and make most things per encounter.

 

Oh, even worse than before!

 

Calm down. There was no vancian magic in POE already so it's not getting that much worse.

 

Yes, i've actually bothered with asking myself "what is vancian magic?".

[transfett]

I believe all abilities are per-encounter and there's a new per-rest resource called empower that boosts the power of abilities by 3 levels. So a 5th level wizard can toss 1 fireball per-encounter and use empower that makes it deal damage like a 8th level wizard.

 

There's also talk of a revamped health system but I don't know much about it.

In the current system empower gives 3 points of power. When you level up you get +3 points to your levelled class and +1 point for your other class.

Edited February 25, 2017 by transfett

[Archaven]

I'm in favored for per encounter. Vancian is more of an annoyance to me. Per encounter means you can have the correct answers for you in every counter and removes the tedium of resting to get back your answers. Per encounter is not catwalk IMO. Josh even hinted the usage of "Empowering" to refresh the per encounter in longer fights. If the battle was "tweaked" correctly and with "limited" Per encounter spells/abilities, i'm guessing "spamming" your Per encounter unnecessarily probably would lead to losing a battle than winning.

[Dark_Ansem]

I'm in favored for per encounter. Vancian is more of an annoyance to me. Per encounter means you can have the correct answers for you in every counter and removes the tedium of resting to get back your answers. Per encounter is not catwalk IMO. Josh even hinted the usage of "Empowering" to refresh the per encounter in longer fights. If the battle was "tweaked" correctly and with "limited" Per encounter spells/abilities, i'm guessing "spamming" your Per encounter unnecessarily probably would lead to losing a battle than winning.

 

I can agree with this.

[CottonWolf]

 

I believe all abilities are per-encounter and there's a new per-rest resource called empower that boosts the power of abilities by 3 levels. So a 5th level wizard can toss 1 fireball per-encounter and use empower that makes it deal damage like a 8th level wizard.

 

There's also talk of a revamped health system but I don't know much about it.

In the current system empower gives 3 points of power. When you level up you get +3 points to your levelled class and +1 point for your other class.

 

 

 

I think it actually gives 3 power levels worth of power? Which is equivalent to 6 levels?

 

I imagine Josh'll do an update on it at some point to clarify.

[transfett]

you are correct points of power is not the same as power level. 3 power levels equal about 6 levels

[No idea]

I dont like per encounter spells. I grew up giving some thought to when you cast this or that spell, instead of casting them like a machine gun because you will get them in the next fight again. I thnk that taking a decision about when to cast a given spell is funnier than simply not taking any decision but casting them as fast as possible (which usually means one spell per "round")

 

I guess I am too old to like such a big change in magic mechanics.

Edited February 25, 2017 by No idea

[Ganrich]

 

 

I believe all abilities are per-encounter and there's a new per-rest resource called empower that boosts the power of abilities by 3 levels. So a 5th level wizard can toss 1 fireball per-encounter and use empower that makes it deal damage like a 8th level wizard.

There's also talk of a revamped health system but I don't know much about it.

 

In the current system empower gives 3 points of power. When you level up you get +3 points to your levelled class and +1 point for your other class.

 

 

I think it actually gives 3 power levels worth of power? Which is equivalent to 6 levels?

 

I imagine Josh'll do an update on it at some point to clarify.

This is how I've taken it as well. Empower just increases power level, and power level increases every 6 points of a power source. You gain 3 power source points for leveling that class and 1 for other classes. Power level, more than class level, dictates the power of spells.

 

I can't remember if PL also increases the spells you have access to. It would make Multiclass dips more interesting. You wouldn't be limited to low level abilities/spells later in the game if you only dips a few levels in another class. A 15/5 fighter/wizard would have 50(?) points in Discipline power source and 30 in Arcane. In theory 30 Arcane points should give access to level 4 spells and below. If my lazy math is right (I'm half asleep right now). I expect a late game dip or two could give the character a few mid-level abilities to use.

[demeisen]

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I dont like per encounter spells. I grew up giving some thought to when you cast this or that spell, instead of casting them like a machine gun because you will get them in the next fight again. I thnk that taking a decision about when to cast a given spell is funnier than simply not taking any decision but casting them as fast as possible

 

​You and me both then.  Melancholy toast...

 

I think we're in a small minority, hence every game under the sun moving to insta-regen mechanics.  ​We're not anybody's target market .

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​Much of the fun of RPGs to me, whether P&P or C, is in the journey.  If I have a health bar that auto-fills after combat and spells that pop back up after use, it's much too Diablo-esque for my tastes.  It's enough to negate any interest I have in a game, and it makes lesser fights irrelevant because I'm just going to recoup everything I used to beat them, so they have no real impact on whether I can survive an area.  I'd much prefer going the other way: little to no regeneration of anything, and much more limited access to rest, so you really have to play well to get through a dungeon, instead of overkilling and totally free ability selection + regen + lather + rinse + repeat.  The resting part you can do yourself just by not resting, but regen is hard to avoid if the game is doing it automatically and is balanced around it.

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​Sometimes I wonder how 1980's CPRGs mechanics would go over today, often having (1) no saving outside a very few areas, (2) no regen of anything outside a few safe places you may not encounter for hours at a time, (3) no protection against getting places you have no prayer of surviving, and (4) random encounters, so you had to fight your way out of whatever you fought you way into.  Oh, and no auto-mapping.  You could easily fail to get back, and lose hours of play.  But... limping back with everybody torn to shreds and making it when you thought you couldn't was exhilarating.  That's something I don't get from most recent games, and I miss it.  Pillars 1 you could get a little of it by avoiding all the camps and playing a party heavy on per-rest abilities.

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​We'll have to see how they balance things with the empower mechanics I guess.  I still backed the game (for 3X what I backed POE1 for), and am happy to toss some $ to a studio doing "real" RPGs with the care that went into Pillars, but what I've been hearing about party sizes, regen mechanics, and removal of the health/stamina split has me kinda down about it.  I'll probably still dig the world and love the artwork, so that's something.

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