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What would you like to see change for Paladins in Deadfire v PoE1 (or any other class)?


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Both chanters and paladins can be considered a "low maintenance jack of all trades".

 

 

gonna need disagree with your characterization.  "jack of all trades?"

 

regardless, am agreeing chanters could use changes.  the usefulness o' the couple chanter-specific talents were tidal, seeming to come and go with each major patch. relative uselessness o' dex for chanter abilities were also an issue as already noted, and coupled with the mechanics flaw in the poe system which made it easy for any class to functional achieve accuracy or deflection bloat, chanters were in serious need o' change.

 

but paladins as a jack o' all trades?  if you wanted to make a serious dps paladin, you could do so, but only at expense o' many support or tanky qualities.  sure, you wouldn't rival the best dps classes in the game, but you could have fun with a unique build... even if pallegina would always be better than you at dps. a kind wayfarer could become a on-kill healbot via dps, but were an extreme narrow option given the scope o' paladin possibilities. particular for the first 8-9 levels, a paladin's options were extreme limited; 1 aura and likely 2-3 abilities?  and chances are one o' your abilities would simple be a modification o' lay on hands or flames of devotion. 

dunno.  maybe you are using the term different.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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This is probably unpopular, but I hope paladins don't get any orders added until every other class has at least as many subclasses.

Paladins had the most optional talents due to their orders in PoE and the most opportunities for build supported RP in PoE together with priests:

 

Paladins have 5 general talents and 2 for each order, making a total of 17 (!) optional talents.

Monks, on the other hand, got 3, slightly more than the abyssal 2 of the chanter.

 

Even if you discount the mutually exclusive ones, you still get 7 class exclusive talents for paladins, which is still more than double / thrice the amount the monk / chanter got.

 

To be quite honest, I don't think they deserve any improvements with regards to new options before all the other classes are on par.

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Where paladins are concerned, I'd like to see more differentiation based on their orders. Bleak Walkers might specialize in bolstering offensive capabilities or weakening enemy defenses, Shieldbearers might take a portion of nearby allies' suffering upon themselves or improve allies' ability to protect each other via engagement, Goldpact Knights affinities would be more towards bolstering allies' defenses and increasing consistency (fewer grazes, etc.), Kind Wayfarers could focus more on healing or increasing mobility, and the Darcozzi could focus on intensifying or prolonging inspiration among their allies. This could also involve areas in which they are comparatively mediocre, such as Bleak Walkers being bad at healing/directly assisting allies in nondestructive ways or Shieldbearers having less skill in directly improving accuracy or damage through their auras.

 

 

 

 

That's a good idea, I didn't think of that. I am quiet satisfied, the way I can play Paladins in Version 3.05. Using layong on hands per encounter and not per day, makes them quiet useful, the auras are okay and they are decent fighters enough. I gave my characters two-handed swords and send him at the front with Pallegina. They were quite effective. 

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This is probably unpopular, but I hope paladins don't get any orders added until every other class has at least as many subclasses.

Paladins had the most optional talents due to their orders in PoE and the most opportunities for build supported RP in PoE together with priests:

 

Paladins have 5 general talents and 2 for each order, making a total of 17 (!) optional talents.

Monks, on the other hand, got 3, slightly more than the abyssal 2 of the chanter.

 

Even if you discount the mutually exclusive ones, you still get 7 class exclusive talents for paladins, which is still more than double / thrice the amount the monk / chanter got.

 

To be quite honest, I don't think they deserve any improvements with regards to new options before all the other classes are on par.

agree with one exception.  given the revelation 'bout the gods at the end o' poe 1, we would like for obsidian to consider an additional faithless/godless priest subclass.  such were possible in d&d 3e.  worked ok.  as for poe specific, for a considerable time, durance continued to gain divine power in spite o' fact magran could no longer recognize him, and even if durance wholly rejected magran in a game, he could still access and recoup spells. 'course any perceived inconsistency could simple be explained away by a creative obsidian developer. nevertheless, for those furious defensive o' established setting lore, our suggestion is already plausible and hardly world breaking.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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agree with one exception.  given the revelation 'bout the gods at the end o' poe 1, we would like for obsidian to consider an additional faithless/godless priest subclass.  such were possible in d&d 3e.  worked ok.  as for poe specific, for a considerable time, durance continued to gain divine power in spite o' fact magran could no longer recognize him, and even if durance wholly rejected magran in a game, he could still access and recoup spells. 'course any perceived inconsistency could simple be explained away by a creative obsidian developer. nevertheless, for those furious defensive o' established setting lore, our suggestion is already plausible and hardly world breaking.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Since priests will already be revamped due to their new spell list/selection, I don't see why such a change shouldn't be incorporated as well.

I'm curious though, what do you imagine the specialization could grant to godless priests?

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agree with one exception.  given the revelation 'bout the gods at the end o' poe 1, we would like for obsidian to consider an additional faithless/godless priest subclass.  such were possible in d&d 3e.  worked ok.  as for poe specific, for a considerable time, durance continued to gain divine power in spite o' fact magran could no longer recognize him, and even if durance wholly rejected magran in a game, he could still access and recoup spells. 'course any perceived inconsistency could simple be explained away by a creative obsidian developer. nevertheless, for those furious defensive o' established setting lore, our suggestion is already plausible and hardly world breaking.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Since priests will already be revamped due to their new spell list/selection, I don't see why such a change shouldn't be incorporated as well.

I'm curious though, what do you imagine the specialization could grant to godless priests?

 

currently the main advantages o' a priest's deity choice is how devotions boost holy radiance and the deity weapon talent.  in poe 1, replacing the deity-specific talents with a generic godless talent would be easy enough-- a useless spell-like ability nobody uses and 2 weapons. staff and crossbow? with weapon proficiencies being added to poe 2, am suspecting the priestly talent benefits will also change, but am confident something similar would be worked into the game, yes? get a proficiency slot in _______.  also, am suspecting based on josh comments, the dispositions will change a bit in poe2.  however, all the dispositions current have approximate opposites.  so let a godless priest choose any two dispositions save for those diametric opposed.  

 

there were almost no reactivity for priest deity choice in poe1.  have a couple similar flavor text options in poe 2 don't seem like a stretch. even if priests are afforded more reactivity in poe 2 than we saw in poe 1, given the nature o' the gods in eora and the story o' poe thus far, working in a few disbeliever priest text options don't strike us as a particular odious burden.  

 

honest, unless priests is radical overhauled, a godless priest addition don't seem like a tough fix.  create one godless talent.  allow disposition choice at level 1.  add a handful o' dialogue options... options which would no doubt be perfectly reasonable given the artificial nature o' the gods.  call it a day.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Well my question about paladin orders was only kinda answered in the latest chat. But it prompt Josh to say that spell availablilty for priests will change based on deity selection.

"Wizards do not need to be The Dudes Who Can AoE Nuke You and Gish and Take as Many Hits as a Fighter and Make all Skills Irrelevant Because Magic."

-Josh Sawyer

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Yeah, the lack of unarmed proficiency doesn't particularly bode well for greater versatility for unarmed attacks (though those options could still be bundled up with monks/equipment), but I'm glad to hear that priest spell lists are tied more closely to deities now. I always thought it was rather absurd that growing in power as a priest of Wael suddenly meant you could drop pillars on people, for example.

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Yeah, the lack of unarmed proficiency doesn't particularly bode well for greater versatility for unarmed attacks (though those options could still be bundled up with monks/equipment), but I'm glad to hear that priest spell lists are tied more closely to deities now. I always thought it was rather absurd that growing in power as a priest of Wael suddenly meant you could drop pillars on people, for example.

 

Pillar of Mystery beeeaaaachhh. BAM!

 

#Fabulous Wael is Fabulous#

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Removal of Goldpact order. Burn it with fire, and pretend it never existed in lore, since it's absurd :)

 

I am not exactly fine with Bleak Walkers either, but at least I can understand wider reasoning for introducing those.

 

Why is the stuff the Goldpact Knights and Bleak Walkers are fanatical about more absurd than the stuff the Wayfarers or Shieldbearers are fanatical about?

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Removal of Goldpact order. Burn it with fire, and pretend it never existed in lore, since it's absurd :)

 

I am not exactly fine with Bleak Walkers either, but at least I can understand wider reasoning for introducing those.

 

Why is the stuff the Goldpact Knights and Bleak Walkers are fanatical about more absurd than the stuff the Wayfarers or Shieldbearers are fanatical about?

 

 

Well, Bleak Walkers I kinda understand, although I personally don't like idea... it's somehow, too raw.

 

As for Goldpacts, nope, just nope. If you actually mean to ask, I doubt, you would understand or agree anyway.

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While I don't have a problem with the Goldpact Knights myself and like the idea of a paladin order that isn't concerned with heroics or brutality, the Goldpact Knights can be seen as occupying an odd space between the other orders. We know that paladins draw their power from a zealous commitment to their beliefs, but, put simply, the Goldpact Knights' beliefs seem to amount to killing and dying for the sake of paying customers' beliefs. That lifestyle almost seems to demand that they be fanatically non-fanatical about everything except paid contracts, which is rather flat. Even if I don't want all traces of them purged from Eothas Eora, I can at least agree that there are no shortage of more interesting directions to take with a morally indifferent sort of paladin order.

 

As far as I know, the lore hasn't specified whether the Goldpact Knights are actually building towards something, so their fixation with maintaining professional standards at all times seems to lack any real purpose. I guess this could be a collective of people who feel they have no place outside of the battlefield, believing that there is a particular code which all men-at-arms should follow regardless of who or what they fight for, but I'd basically have to build their background from scratch myself to arrive at that conclusion (again, unless I've missed a bit of lore somewhere).

Edited by blotter
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I know people and organisations who are fanatical about money and contracts. So, whist Goldpact Knights might be a bit dull, I don't think they are at all unrealistic.

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Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!

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I'd like to see more distinct Order-based abilities. I always thought that the Bleak Walkers should have an aura of fear that reduces the stats of enemies rather than giving bonuses to the party for example.

 

Another thing I'd like to see is more interesting Orders. The Bleak walkers feel like the only paladin order to have any real personality, with the possible exception of the Darcozzi Paladini. I find that the utter divorce between the different faiths and Paladins didn't do the class that much good, so perhaps a Templar Order dedicated to the safety of the faith, who would be funded by the different Temples to act as guardians of sorts, and since they do not follow any specific god to the exclusion of the others, they could also have attained a position of power as mediators and peace-keepers between the different faiths.

 

Oh, and I'd definitely like Paladins to have fighter-level combat stats and not just be the inferior choice for the front lines.

The most important step you take in your life is the next one.

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Pals are ok.

There could be more things related to Orders. Old one feats was insignificant and not flashy.

There could be subclasses/kits one related to solo Pal the Champion, the other to army pal Commander.

There could be Pal order dedicating to killing monsters (including undead) but that is just fanservice.

Immolation is hot but also comes late, there could be more gradually power curve.

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I know people and organisations who are fanatical about money and contracts. So, whist Goldpact Knights might be a bit dull, I don't think they are at all unrealistic.

More contracts than money in this case, or their loyalties would be more flexible than the lore suggests. Further, the people and organizations you refer to are most likely committed to contracts less for their own sake than for the benefits of adhering to them or for fear of the consequences of breaching them. With the Goldpact Knights, it struck me at the time of my earlier post as a more generic adherence to the idea of contracts.

 

That said, the flavor text in-game, which I've since re-read, states that the order is several centuries old and survived the death of the nation that created it. With that in mind, I'll retract my earlier claim that there's no particular agenda evident to provide direction or incentive for their professionalism: it's no stretch at all that people will go to extremes for the sake of an organization's tradition and prestige if they're invested in it strongly enough. How interesting that is really depends on the history and culture of the order itself in my opinion, but now I find myself hoping for Bleak Oath-type quest for Goldpact Knights that demonstrates a bit more of their background and practices.

 

 

the utter divorce between the different faiths and Paladins

 

There are at least two religious orders that we know of (the Order of the Steel Garrotte and the Fellows of St. Waidwen Martyr), and it seems reasonable to expect more to be out there. As a matter of fact, we've also had chances to fight Skaenite, Rymrgandan, and Ondran paladins, regardless of whether they've been written up as named orders or not. Even so, I think the idea of a templar order as a source of outsourced security and inter-faith mediation has potential. It probably shouldn't extend to all the faiths though: Woedica, Rymrgand, and possibly Magran's faiths seem rather unlikely to entrust their security to a third party or to cooperate with their mediation efforts. Skaenites seem more likely to ostensibly play along with this sort of arrangement while doing whatever they want until caught at it.

Edited by blotter
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I'd prefer if classes would not make any distinction about whether the character is my main, mechanics wise. I always had this feeling that if I wanted to have a fully functional paladin in my group it had to be myself, which was kinda unfair towards Pellegina.

Did they ever change this in one of the later patches? Might not be quite up to date here.

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Did they ever change this in one of the later patches? Might not be quite up to date here.

IE mod optionally gave NPC/Adventurer Paladins their regular bonuses/penalties based on the main character's reputations (including Pallegina w/ customizable preferred reputations if you didn't agree with the defaults), but they still missed out on the talents for ignoring conflicting reputation penalties, so ultimately it enforced potentially multiple behaviour requirements on your main character, and (as with any class or background that doesn't apply to your main) didn't offer any special dialog options.

 

IE mod's also been updated to properly support 3.05, for what it's worth.

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