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List of Subclasses as we learn about them.

Subclasses Sub-classes

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#541
SaruNi

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Just posting bonuses and penalties of few subclasses, since it's easier for me to check them here, than open the video each time:

Hellwalker:
Bonus:
- begin combat with 1 Wound
- gain +1 Might for each Wound they have
Penalty:
- take 5% for each Wound they have

Nalpazka:
Bonus:
- all drug effects last 50% longer
- generate Wounds while receiving the benefits of drugs
Penalty:
- crash penalties from drugs cause the monk to be unable to receive healing
- degenerate Wounds while not benefiting from drugs

Shattered Pillar:
Bonus: 
- gain Wounds by melee weapon damage inflicted
Penalty:
- cannot gain Wounds from damage received
- required threshold to gain wounds increased
- max Wound limit is decreased

 
Conjurer:
Bonus:
- gain increased power level with Conjuration spells
- Conjure Familiar - familiars provide a useful passive effect
Penalty:
- lose access to spells from Evocation and Illusion schools
- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Conjuration school

Enchanter:
Bonus:
- gain increased power level with Enchantment spells
- Free Action - once per encounter when under effect of Hobble affliction, wizard can clear it and become immune to it for 10s
Penalty:
- lose access to spells from Illusion and Transmutation schools
- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Enchantment school

Evoker:
Bonus:
- gain increased power level with Evocation spells
- your evocation spells have a small (interesting how small??) chance to "echo", reapplying their damage and effects to their target again, immediately.
Penalty:
- lose access to spells from Transmutation and Conjuration schools
- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Evocation school

Illusionist:
Bonus:
- gain increased power level with Illusion spells
- once per encounter, when first attacked, automatically gain the effects of the spell "Mirrored Images"
- when empowering spells there is a 30% chance of refunding the Empower point
Penalty:
- lose access to spells from Conjuration and Enchanting schools
- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Illusion school

Transmuter:
Bonus:
- gain increased power level with Transmutation spells
- Form of Fearsome Brute - transform into Ogre; can't cast in this form, but physical attributes are increased.
Penalty:
- lose access to spells from Illusion and Transmutation schools
- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Enchantment school

 

 

Very glad to see the subclass bonuses/penalties aren't just those listed in what Sawyer posted. The Wizard subclasses look much more interesting now. 



#542
injurai

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Just to note: You want low recovery. Recovery has to due with time, so increasing it by a percent is a penalty. One of the more awkwardly named variables in the pillarsverse.


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#543
MaxQuest

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One of the more awkwardly named variables in the pillarsverse.

After checking the video again, penalty descriptions actually explicitely write: recovery time. Not just [recovery] which could lead to ambiguity between duration and speed. That's a step forward :)
I will edit my post.

Edited by MaxQuest, 21 September 2017 - 12:12 PM.

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#544
Dr <3

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Transmuter:
Bonus:
- gain increased power level with Transmutation spells
- Form of Fearsome Brute - transform into Ogre; can't cast in this form, but physical attributes are increased.
Penalty:
- lose access to spells from Illusion and Transmutation schools
- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Enchantment school


Are you sure transmuter lose access to his own school? :p
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#545
injurai

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It's also awkwardly named to be, because I think of recovery having to due with getting hit and then recovering. But here it's talking about a delay between your own actions, recovering from the action you had just previously made. But now that I know, I'm not sure I want it to be changed :p



#546
MaxQuest

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Are you sure transmuter lose access to his own school? :p

Oops, corrected)

 
As for alternative names for recovery..: recreation, repose, inter-action rest, procrastination... nothing comes to mind that sounds good and fitting enough :)

Edited by MaxQuest, 21 September 2017 - 12:19 PM.


#547
rjshae

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Just to note: You want low recovery. Recovery has to due with time, so increasing it by a percent is a penalty. One of the more awkwardly named variables in the pillarsverse.

 

They could have called it "cool down", but then certain people would freak. :)



#548
injurai

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They could have called it "cool down", but then certain people would freak. :)

 

Cool downs are usually per ability, and can be used in-junction with recovery. Where does the term cool down come from anyways? It's always come across as very Blizzardish to me, but maybe it's because they abuse it more than anyone else.

 

edit: My 1000th post, so this is what being a Warlock feels like!


Edited by injurai, 21 September 2017 - 12:47 PM.


#549
blotter

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As for alternative names for recovery..: recreation, repose, inter-action rest, procrastination... nothing comes to mind that sounds good and fitting enough :)

 

 

Momentum, maybe?



#550
JerekKruger

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The extra bonuses that specialist Wizards get nice* but I'm still not sure whether they are worth losing access to two other schools. I wonder why Obsidian went with removing access to two schools rather than AD&D's one school.

 

* The Evoker's and Illusionist's look to be the best, the Conjurer's could be very good depending on how good their familiars are, the Enchanter's needs to be able to clear more than just Hobble to be worth it in my opinion and as cool as the Tramsuter's sounds I suspect it won't be great.

 

As for alternative names for recovery..: recreation, repose, inter-action rest, procrastination... nothing comes to mind that sounds good and fitting enough :)

 

Delay is the best I can come up with, though it's still not great.



#551
MaxQuest

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The extra bonuses that specialist Wizards get nice* but I'm still not sure whether they are worth losing access to two other schools. I wonder why Obsidian went with removing access to two schools rather than AD&D's one school.

Agreed, banning two schools outright seems a lil too much.
On the other hand wizards can only use 2 spells of each rank per encounter, so the builds will likely end up highly specialized. Plus we have to see first how big is the power_level bonus for the spells of the selected school.
 

* The Evoker's and Illusionist's look to be the best, the Conjurer's could be very good depending on how good their familiars are, the Enchanter's needs to be able to clear more than just Hobble to be worth it in my opinion and as cool as the Tramsuter's sounds I suspect it won't be great.

Agreed. Enchanter's Free Action in it's current form looks kinda weak.
Illusionist's free Mirrored Image is probably ok, as it will also be useful for some wizard offtanks.
Evoker's echo could be interesting if the chance is high enough. Plus it was told that some empowers could also refund a spell/ability usage cost. So there might be a chance for recursive spamming for free.
As for Transmuter, Ogre should retain current weapon / weapon + shield, or benefit from Novice Suffering in order to be useful on PotD. Or at the very least make this Hulk retain weapons if they deal crushing damage.
 

Delay is the best I can come up with, though it's still not great.

Delay would make me think of some waiting before the actual action, not after, so yeah...
The recovery in PoE is like catching a breath after doing something that takes effort. A recuperation of sorts.

Btw it would be funny if first n actions would have lower recovery duration. n being influenced by CON, DEX and RES. Although forget it, just a random thought :)

Edited by MaxQuest, 22 September 2017 - 02:35 AM.


#552
injurai

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As for alternative names for recovery..: recreation, repose, inter-action rest, procrastination... nothing comes to mind that sounds good and fitting enough :)

 

Respite, rebound, recoup, breather, lull.



#553
MaxQuest

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Respite, rebound, recoup, breather, lull.

I learn a new word everyday on this forum)

Btw, grats with the 1000th post :)
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#554
JerekKruger

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Agreed, banning two schools outright seems a lil too much.

On the other hand wizards can only use 2 spells of each rank per encounter, so the builds will likely end up highly specialized. Plus we have to see first how big is the power_level bonus for the spells of the selected school.

 

Yeah, we'll have to wait and see to know exactly how much of a penalty it is, it just feels like a big one.

 

Illusionist's free Mirrored Image is probably ok, as it will also be useful for some wizard offtanks.

 

That's true. If it's a spell that you would cast anyway then it saves you a cast and the time it would take to cast. Not a bad ability. For non-tanky Wizards I suspect it'll be less good.

 

Delay would make me think of some waiting before the actual action, not after, so yeah...
The recovery in PoE is like catching a breath after doing something that takes effort. A recuperation of sorts.

 

Honestly recovery is probably as good as any other option. Obsidian just have to make sure they explain what it is and how modifiers affect it more clearly.

 

Btw it would be funny if first n actions would have lower recovery duration. n being influenced by CON, DEX and RES. Although forget it, just a random thought  :)

 

Or your Athletics skill perhaps?

Edited by JerekKruger, 22 September 2017 - 04:10 AM.


#555
ShadySands

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The extra bonuses that specialist Wizards get nice* but I'm still not sure whether they are worth losing access to two other schools. I wonder why Obsidian went with removing access to two schools rather than AD&D's one school.

Agreed, banning two schools outright seems a lil too much.
On the other hand wizards can only use 2 spells of each rank per encounter, so the builds will likely end up highly specialized. Plus we have to see first how big is the power_level bonus for the spells of the selected school.

 

Not really surprised that they have (a lot) more drawbacks (loss of an extra school and longer recovery for non specialized school) than their D&D counterparts as I believe it was Gromnir who said to temper expectations because of Josh's approach to subclasses/kits from some earlier game.



#556
FlintlockJazz

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The extra bonuses that specialist Wizards get nice* but I'm still not sure whether they are worth losing access to two other schools. I wonder why Obsidian went with removing access to two schools rather than AD&D's one school.

 

* The Evoker's and Illusionist's look to be the best, the Conjurer's could be very good depending on how good their familiars are, the Enchanter's needs to be able to clear more than just Hobble to be worth it in my opinion and as cool as the Tramsuter's sounds I suspect it won't be great.

 

As for alternative names for recovery..: recreation, repose, inter-action rest, procrastination... nothing comes to mind that sounds good and fitting enough :)

 

Delay is the best I can come up with, though it's still not great.

Actually in tabletop AD&D it was two (or even three for some) schools that were banned for specialist mages.  Only Diviners got one school banned and that was because their speciality school was rather lacklastre. 

 

One thing I have learned also is that just because a bonus and a penalty are equal in 'value' (like a -5 to lockpicking for a disadvantage and a +5 to lockpicking for a advantage) does not make them equal in value: if you are taking the penalty then its because you don't intend to invest or deal with the things the disadvantage applies to anyway, so you are unlikely to suffer that much from it while taking an advantage is because it benefits the things you do intend to do and develop.  Take the aforementioned lockpicking examples, if you take the bonus its because you are creating a lockpicker and will be using it as much as you can, while if you take the penalty you don't want to use lockpicking on this character and so won't be bothering with it anyway.  Therefore, to equalise them you need to take more penalties or greater penalties than the corresponding bonuses.  Of course, there are exceptions and all that, not a hard and fast rule, but having looked at this in games with point-buy character creation like GURPS you will often see the equivalent disadvantages either don't give as much points as the advantages cost or the penalty is greater.


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#557
Silent Winter

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Are you sure transmuter lose access to his own school? :p

Oops, corrected)

 
As for alternative names for recovery..: recreation, repose, inter-action rest, procrastination... nothing comes to mind that sounds good and fitting enough :)

 

Procrastination! yes - that should be the name....or maybe something else?  Hmm, I'll decide later ;)

 

Liking the looks of these subclasses


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#558
MaxQuest

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One thing I have learned also is that just because a bonus and a penalty are equal in 'value' (like a -5 to lockpicking for a disadvantage and a +5 to lockpicking for a advantage) does not make them equal in value: if you are taking the penalty then its because you don't intend to invest or deal with the things the disadvantage applies to anyway, so you are unlikely to suffer that much from it while taking an advantage is because it benefits the things you do intend to do and develop.

Exactly)

That's why I don't really worry for the school locking.
Not to mention that in PoE1 there are ~93 wizard spells. Even if the total number is shrinked to ~75 spells, and 2 schools out of 5 are locked, that would be 45 spells to choose from.

The thing I don't like though, is that ex-vancian classes learn way too few spells on level-up. And if wizard can partially work it out via grimoires, druids and priests seem to be starving. Not to mention that they are already gated by low amount of spell-usages per rank. That being said, it would be nice if we could find/research a few occasional scrolls found around the world or received as quest rewards, and thus learn 5-7 spells extra over the game's duration.

Edited by MaxQuest, 23 September 2017 - 01:30 AM.

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#559
Dr <3

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But is confirmed that you gain only 1 spell on lvl up? Maybe it can just be like chiper powers in poe1: you alternate by choosing 1 or 2 new powers every level. In that case the problem would have been much more mitigated.

Edit: moreover in poe 1 there was a lot of "extra x lvl spell" talent, maybe there will be something like that to spice up the mixture

Edited by Dr <3, 23 September 2017 - 03:31 AM.


#560
MaxQuest

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But is confirmed that you gain only 1 spell on lvl up? Maybe it can just be like chiper powers in poe1: you alternate by choosing 1 or 2 new powers every level. In that case the problem would have been much more mitigated.

It wasn't confirmed in a direct sentence, but it is implied by the combination of these two tumblr posts (one, two) with this progression table.
 

Edit: moreover in poe 1 there was a lot of "extra x lvl spell" talent, maybe there will be something like that to spice up the mixture

There were "Bonus xth Level Spell" talents which would grant you an extra spell-usage. It's great, and I will be taking it (for Shinning Beacon/Shadowflame/Confusion probably); but it doesn't make you learn a new spell)

Edited by MaxQuest, 23 September 2017 - 04:11 AM.

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